Feedback for the GvG shutdown and the Guild Raids

[Mor-Rioghain]

I also remember when Inno shared the 5% number and it was not from a survey/poll, it was from their data. They stated that 5% of active players participated in GvG. I don't know where you got the idea that it was a survey/poll, but that is not what it was. You are the first person in the multiple discussions of that number that has ever thought it came from a player survey/poll.

And just because I'm the first person - that you've encountered - who thought this doesn't make it not true.

an autoclicking macro is against the rules of the game as posted by Inno.

I never said that it wasn't. I also said that I wouldn't risk my gaming account for that. If you are going to cherry-pick people's comments to refute their arguments, you will obviously get a completely different answer than the "truth."

I'm obviously no rocket scientist but in the last GBG championship our guild was matched with others against thee top GBG in my world twice. Both times I watched the entire Waterfall map get gobbled up by that "Top Fighting Guild" in under 11 minutes

Based on my experience over the lifetime of battlegrounds and in Diamond League, I'd argue that 11 minutes to take on about 20 sectors is actually quite slow. There are 52 sectors to be acquired on that map and if that guild had blocked out all 7 other guilds, they'd probably have worked from their HQ into T3, meaning even if they had to go the longest route and cross the map going through XIX, they'd have had to acquire a minimum of 24 sectors to be able to create a firewall and then go back to pick off T2's and T'3s. More likely that they drove across the map and flanked by acquiring T2's, a total of 20 sectors (if they took every sector from XIX outwards), shaving off some very valuable time, then leaving the T2's to close at their leisure.

The truth is that with some good strategists setting up targeting mechanisms, you needn't go through all of that. All it takes is blocking in the guilds who are actively driving towards center. It's not at all uncommon - even in Diamond League - for guilds to "sit out" the Opening Day Rush. They need only effectively block 2 or 3 gulds, generally. Once they have, it's easy enough to circle back and (to use your description):

and that's only because once they had everyone locked out they took their time finishing the center zones. With one or two exceptions that were able to acquire one zone, they strung simultaneous fights along the entire perimeter locking everyone to their home base then gobbled up the center at their leisure. I literally watched multiple zones fall in under a minute.

Putting aside what it takes to get enough guilders to show up at the same time,

Why put it aside? It's a pertinent point even if misguided. People want to WIN. They'll show up if the rewards are enough to induce them to show up. What we find valuable in the game is individual but who doesn't like to be the baddest guild on the server? Never underestimate the power of bragging rights! (And frags for great towers - there is that.)

executing that many attacks manually, then keeping enough of them around to come back every 4 hours and lock up any openings over an 11 day season stretches my imagination. Sure its possible, not probable though.

Perhaps in your experience. I've seen this daily for over 4 years.
Not going to throw more math at you but here's something to "stretch your imagination:" My attack/attack-D stats on my main world:

Regular Attk/Attk-D: 3139/3208
BG Attk/Attk-D: 3758/3849
Add in 300% Attk/Attk-D Potions I most definitely use at opening and my battleground units have 4058/4149 attk/attk-d and I can hit 1K in fights on Day 1 of the season. My numbers are actually rather average, if not outright low, for a SAV player in a top-10 guild. (We're currently in 6th due to 3 guilds simultaneously trouncing everyone in sight to take a potshot - the one that will change the rankings - at the only undefeated guild on our server).

Do you still find it difficult to believe how it's not only probable but entirely possible for a guild chock-full of folks w/attk-attk-d of 5K or higher to swallow up the whole map in minutes? I do not because I've seen it over and over again throughout 4 1/2 years of the feature being live.

You have no reaason to take my word for it but I believe if you actually asked around the gaming community you'd find that what you believe to be the norm is under-average. What I'm describing is far closer to average on any server I've played on since BG went live and I've played BG on 3 of them.

For the sake of the game however lets say that in those real life examples it was all on the up and up and along with all the other guilds mine just couldn't cut the mustard and we were wholly outclassed - beaten fair and square. What does that say about how GBG match ups occur?

Now you've hit on a topic/situation that a lot of people question - what is wrong with the matchmaking system? Every time they build a better trap, the mice figure out how to defeat it is pretty much all anyone can conclude when they're not screaming about "cheaters."

Bots are real, yes. Bots are used to defeat gaming systems - not just Inno Games - every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Yes. Yes. And yes. Are they as prevalent as the people in "one game" or "another" think? Highly unlikely and once again, no one seems to be willing (or able) to provide the gaming companies with substantive evidence that can actually be investigated through their own channels. Crimeney, they wrote the code. Don't y'all think they would know if someone was actually able to defeat it?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

And just because I'm the first person - that you've encountered - who thought this doesn't make it not true.

I never said that it wasn't. I also said that I wouldn't risk my gaming account for that. If you are going to cherry-pick people's comments to refute their arguments, you will obviously get a completely different answer than the "truth."

Based on my experience over the lifetime of battlegrounds and in Diamond League, I'd argue that 11 minutes to take on about 20 sectors is actually quite slow. There are 52 sectors to be acquired on that map and if that guild had blocked out all 7 other guilds, they'd probably have worked from their HQ into T3, meaning even if they had to go the longest route and cross the map going through XIX, they'd have had to acquire a minimum of 24 sectors to be able to create a firewall and then go back to pick off T2's and T'3s. More likely that they drove across the map and flanked by acquiring T2's, a total of 20 sectors (if they took every sector from XIX outwards), shaving off some very valuable time, then leaving the T2's to close at their leisure.

The truth is that with some good strategists setting up targeting mechanisms, you needn't go through all of that. All it takes is blocking in the guilds who are actively driving towards center. It's not at all uncommon - even in Diamond League - for guilds to "sit out" the Opening Day Rush. They need only effectively block 2 or 3 gulds, generally. Once they have, it's easy enough to circle back and (to use your description):


Why put it aside? It's a pertinent point even if misguided. People want to WIN. They'll show up if the rewards are enough to induce them to show up. What we find valuable in the game is individual but who doesn't like to be the baddest guild on the server? Never underestimate the power of bragging rights! (And frags for great towers - there is that.)

Perhaps in your experience. I've seen this daily for over 4 years.
Not going to throw more math at you but here's something to "stretch your imagination:" My attack/attack-D stats on my main world:

Regular Attk/Attk-D: 3139/3208
BG Attk/Attk-D: 3758/3849
Add in 300% Attk/Attk-D Potions I most definitely use at opening and my battleground units have 4058/4149 attk/attk-d and I can hit 1K in fights on Day 1 of the season. My numbers are actually rather average, if not outright low, for a SAV player in a top-10 guild. (We're currently in 6th due to 3 guilds simultaneously trouncing everyone in sight to take a potshot - the one that will change the rankings - at the only undefeated guild on our server).

Do you still find it difficult to believe how it's not only probable but entirely possible for a guild chock-full of folks w/attk-attk-d of 5K or higher to swallow up the whole map in minutes? I do not because I've seen it over and over again throughout 4 1/2 years of the feature being live.

You have no reaason to take my word for it but I believe if you actually asked around the gaming community you'd find that what you believe to be the norm is under-average. What I'm describing is far closer to average on any server I've played on since BG went live and I've played BG on 3 of them.

Now you've hit on a topic/situation that a lot of people question - what is wrong with the matchmaking system? Every time they build a better trap, the mice figure out how to defeat it is pretty much all anyone can conclude when they're not screaming about "cheaters."

Bots are real, yes. Bots are used to defeat gaming systems - not just Inno Games - every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Yes. Yes. And yes. Are they as prevalent as the people in "one game" or "another" think? Highly unlikely and once again, no one seems to be willing (or able) to provide the gaming companies with substantive evidence that can actually be investigated through their own channels. Crimeney, they wrote the code. Don't y'all think they would know if someone was actually able to defeat it?

Sorry, I don't believe that you can "hit 1K fights on Day 1". Even if you sat out the open and only hit 20% sectors you would max out your attrition long before reaching 1K battles.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Sorry, I don't believe that you can "hit 1K fights on Day 1". Even if you sat out the open and only hit 20% sectors you would max out your attrition long before reaching 1K battles.

There are players with 200 attrition capability.. at 80% that is 1000 fights. or more with even a small amount of luck

 

[Pericles the Lion]

There are players with 200 attrition capability.. at 80% that is 1000 fights. or more with even a small amount of luck

I have no doubt of this. But do you think that 1000 fights (even if all are on 20% sectors) is possible with 4058/4149 boosts? With potions I'm at 5552/4865 and 200 attrition is out of reach.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

as long as I have been playing (3.5 years).

I can't believe I skipped over this. This explains why you're fine with everything Inno does anymore. You don't know any better because the game has been totally screwed up since before you started. It all makes sense now. You have no idea how the game has changed, or how much better it was the first several years.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I can't believe I skipped over this. This explains why you're fine with everything Inno does anymore. You don't know any better because the game has been totally screwed up since before you started. It all makes sense now. You have no idea how the game has changed, or how much better it was the first several years.

Do you even realize just how silly you sound? Keep bellyaching about the "good old days of FoE" if that's what floats your boat. What the game was like before I started playing is totally irrelevant to me. I enjoy the game I have and do not waste a second wondering about the game that I didn't have. Frankly, since you claim that the game is now "totally screwed up" I really doubt that I would have enjoyed it more back in the day.

 

[Wildelk68]

Kudos Johnny! Give me back the "good old days" when this game was more strategy and less fighting and events didn't last for what seems like years!

 

[Pericles the Lion]

You probably wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. No hyper leveled GBs, no OP event buildings, no massive power creep. Very little heads up from Beta on event quests. We had to actually use Build menu buildings for more than just fulfilling production quests. It was actually a thinking and planning game. Now it's just check the quest lines from Beta, spend a few Diamonds and/or dollars, and fill your city up with OP event buildings and hyper leveled GBs. Voila! No problem. (Oh, and the only "farming" done was in GvG for ranking points. No GBG to overflow your coffers with.)

Incidentally, I do have one city with several GBs over level 80 and tons of event/special buildings. GE5 is no problem, PVP Arena is no problem, events are no problem. GBG would be no problem if I wanted to bother with it. It's absolutely the most boring city I have outside of my Diamond farms.

So, instead of complaining about the changes why don't you just play the game under the old rules? Since you prefer to play solo and have claimed to not be interested in ranking points, just "unplug" from all of the changes that you don't like. Go back to aiding players by actually visiting their city, ditto for tavern visits. Don't level any GBs beyond L10. Don't plant any late generation GBs, only build SoKs, Cider Mills, and other antiques. Don't advance beyond TE. Go back to building off of the build menu. Don't use 1.9s. Most, if not all, of the changes that you seem to despise are avoidable. If you don't like the current iteration of the game just go back to the way it used to be.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

So, instead of complaining about the changes why don't you just play the game under the old rules? Since you prefer to play solo and have claimed to not be interested in ranking points, just "unplug" from all of the changes that you don't like. Go back to aiding players by actually visiting their city, ditto for tavern visits. Don't level any GBs beyond L10. Don't plant any late generation GBs, only build SoKs, Cider Mills, and other antiques. Don't advance beyond TE. Go back to building off of the build menu. Don't use 1.9s. Most, if not all, of the changes that you seem to despise are avoidable. If you don't like the current iteration of the game just go back to the way it used to be.

That is one of the ways Forge is so cool. No one has to do most of the things that have been added, if the choose not to.
The only problem is then you are left in the dust... (Like trying to drive your horse and buggy on the Autobahn)

I wonder if any Guild anywhere has done that. Have rules where only old stuff can be done? No Event buildings. Great Buildings to only level 10 and no 1.9 Goods fro menu buildings etc.
There are those tiny towns as a game plan. Why not early play style?

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Had to post. A message (the ones you can read as the game is loading) was for GvG today.. I think they are not keeping up housekeeping?

 

[jaymoney23456]

And just because I'm the first person - that you've encountered - who thought this doesn't make it not true.

I never said that it wasn't. I also said that I wouldn't risk my gaming account for that. If you are going to cherry-pick people's comments to refute their arguments, you will obviously get a completely different answer than the "truth."

Based on my experience over the lifetime of battlegrounds and in Diamond League, I'd argue that 11 minutes to take on about 20 sectors is actually quite slow. There are 52 sectors to be acquired on that map and if that guild had blocked out all 7 other guilds, they'd probably have worked from their HQ into T3, meaning even if they had to go the longest route and cross the map going through XIX, they'd have had to acquire a minimum of 24 sectors to be able to create a firewall and then go back to pick off T2's and T'3s. More likely that they drove across the map and flanked by acquiring T2's, a total of 20 sectors (if they took every sector from XIX outwards), shaving off some very valuable time, then leaving the T2's to close at their leisure.

The truth is that with some good strategists setting up targeting mechanisms, you needn't go through all of that. All it takes is blocking in the guilds who are actively driving towards center. It's not at all uncommon - even in Diamond League - for guilds to "sit out" the Opening Day Rush. They need only effectively block 2 or 3 gulds, generally. Once they have, it's easy enough to circle back and (to use your description):


Why put it aside? It's a pertinent point even if misguided. People want to WIN. They'll show up if the rewards are enough to induce them to show up. What we find valuable in the game is individual but who doesn't like to be the baddest guild on the server? Never underestimate the power of bragging rights! (And frags for great towers - there is that.)

Perhaps in your experience. I've seen this daily for over 4 years.
Not going to throw more math at you but here's something to "stretch your imagination:" My attack/attack-D stats on my main world:

Regular Attk/Attk-D: 3139/3208
BG Attk/Attk-D: 3758/3849
Add in 300% Attk/Attk-D Potions I most definitely use at opening and my battleground units have 4058/4149 attk/attk-d and I can hit 1K in fights on Day 1 of the season. My numbers are actually rather average, if not outright low, for a SAV player in a top-10 guild. (We're currently in 6th due to 3 guilds simultaneously trouncing everyone in sight to take a potshot - the one that will change the rankings - at the only undefeated guild on our server).

Do you still find it difficult to believe how it's not only probable but entirely possible for a guild chock-full of folks w/attk-attk-d of 5K or higher to swallow up the whole map in minutes? I do not because I've seen it over and over again throughout 4 1/2 years of the feature being live.

You have no reaason to take my word for it but I believe if you actually asked around the gaming community you'd find that what you believe to be the norm is under-average. What I'm describing is far closer to average on any server I've played on since BG went live and I've played BG on 3 of them.

Now you've hit on a topic/situation that a lot of people question - what is wrong with the matchmaking system? Every time they build a better trap, the mice figure out how to defeat it is pretty much all anyone can conclude when they're not screaming about "cheaters."

Bots are real, yes. Bots are used to defeat gaming systems - not just Inno Games - every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Yes. Yes. And yes. Are they as prevalent as the people in "one game" or "another" think? Highly unlikely and once again, no one seems to be willing (or able) to provide the gaming companies with substantive evidence that can actually be investigated through their own channels. Crimeney, they wrote the code. Don't y'all think they would know if someone was actually able to defeat it?

Taking 20 sectors in 11 minutes would be lightning fast to the extent I've never seen it done by any guild ever and my guild is always in 1k diamond league. The entire map is often gobbled up in say 20-25 min maybe a bit less but that is with 3-4 guilds taking sectors. Something like 45 seconds is quite fast to take a sector in a race. There is no mention of how many sectors a guild was taking when its mentioned that one guild took the entire map in 11 min though. Taking say 90% of the map with one guild in 11 min might be possible if a guild had maybe 60+ players on but its likely the guild would run into serious lag to slow things down to prevent such a thing from happening. Most likely senario for this would be bots given this is not a normal thing to happen.

 

[ForumAccount]

I know a guild that took a 460 hit sector in 22 seconds. That is 20 hits a second.

 

[jaymoney23456]

I know a guild that took a 460 hit sector in 22 seconds. That is 20 hits a second.

Well there is no such thing as a 460 hit sector. Max possible is 418. Also, that would be unusually fast and could easily be bots is what you are seeing there.

 

[ForumAccount]

Well there is no such thing as a 460 hit sector. Max possible is 418. Also, that would be unusually fast and could easily be bots is what you are seeing there.

Sorry. I wasn't really thinking. Do the math. 60 members online translates to 1 fight every 3 seconds per person. Even with lag 3 seconds per fight is possible

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Well there is no such thing as a 460 hit sector. Max possible is 418. Also, that would be unusually fast and could easily be bots is what you are seeing there.

Using my best Hailey Joel Osment impersonation..."I see bots".

 

[PJS299]

Sorry. I wasn't really thinking. Do the math. 60 members online translates to 1 fight every 3 seconds per person. Even with lag 3 seconds per fight is possible

No guild is going to have 60 members online at GBG start. No guild is immune to attrition. No guild can take the center tile in 10 seconds.

With the amount of hits needed, you would quickly hit att max. You would be switching out units every battle. But apparently some guilds are just attritionless. Taking almost the whole map in 5 minutes is not possible.



It's called b0t$.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

No guild is going to have 60 members online at GBG start. No guild is immune to attrition. No guild can take the center tile in 10 seconds.

My main city guild has had 60 on at the start before. We had 57 at this season's open. 55 is the expectation.

You are correct, no guild is immune to attrition. But, attrition is shared. The more players fighting, the less attrition becomes a problem.

 

[Emberguard]

My main city guild has had 60 on at the start before. We had 57 at this season's open. 55 is the expectation.

You are correct, no guild is immune to attrition. But, attrition is shared. The more fighting, the lees attrition becomes a problem.

Speed aside, that amount of sectors could easily be taken by 20 people. It'd just take longer than 60 people would take it in

 

[PJS299]

My main city guild has had 60 on at the start before. We had 57 at this season's open. 55 is the expectation.

You are correct, no guild is immune to attrition. But, attrition is shared. The more players fighting, the less attrition becomes a problem.

Speed aside, that amount of sectors could easily be taken by 20 people. It'd just take longer than 60 people would take it in

Somehow my guild is getting 15-second lag, but both red+blue guild aren't lagging at all. Very mysterious how that happened. Every time we are on the map with Blue, they take the whole map, and we end up with so much lag we can barely do anything.

 

[Emberguard]

Somehow my guild is getting 15-second lag, but both red+blue guild aren't lagging at all. Very mysterious how that happened. Every time we are on the map with Blue, they take the whole map, and we end up with so much lag we can barely do anything.

Ok, report it to support and get them to investigate.