Feedback for the GvG shutdown and the Guild Raids

[Douglas 221]

I burned out on GvG a long time ago, it was fun. Time for GvG to end. Remember when supplies would spoil if not picked up within a certain amount of time? Time to move forward with something that mobile can play too.

As the conversations continue and points are brought up back when GBG was rolled out about keeping or dropping GvG, I have come to the conclusion it is time for the current form of GvG to end. I love to play it nightly and met so many friends from playing and using Discord to coordinate. I just wish Inno would have listened more to the vocal players who have a passion for it. Many have explained the various aspects of what makes it a unique feature. Inno listened to all the players who wanted something on mobile and how they wanted personal rewards. I am just confused as to why they have not tried to listen to the aspects liked by so many who continue to get on a PC nightly just to play a legacy feature.

 

[Raymora]

It's been obvious that INNO has been working to get rid of gvg. This has been a discussion for years. Personally I'll miss gvg. It was fun for more than the social aspect. It's was a realistic competition. It has a strategic aspect that makes for winners and losers. Alliances get forged to help keep and control land. The fact that there can only be so many winners cause many to players to argue it needs to be balanced. I argue that it requires other guilds to strengthen, forge better alliances and work on better strategies.

Over the last year or 2 tho, a few bad actors decided cheating was better than actually working toward winning. They found exploits, the newest of which allows 1 player to siege, fight and add defense at impossible rates. INNO's not structured to respond in any meaningful way to to this and has shown themselves to not care to change that. Even when they see impossible rates of clicks, they do little to nothing. With no other recourse, some players on the other side end up getting the exploit too. INNO has let gvg devolve to the point where the winner is not always the guild with more fighters, better alliances and strategies. Often it's the ones with better exploits.

INNO has a problem to solve. It's decided to replace gvg with Guild Raids. The problem is how to:
1. make it work for phone and pc
2. Make it challenging - require strategic thinking
3. Do not make it an everyone gets a blue ribbon - this is a competition between guilds
4. Do not let exploits give any kind of advantage
5. Do not continue the current path of requiring more and more daily player time to achieve success
6. Do not introduce crazy lag especially at critical times like gbg opening day
7. Be reasonable in the requirement of resources - when gbg required the same goods as gvg and in such a supposedly random way, it hurt many guild treasuries that were already strained - this just causes more time required to play daily to source needed goods

There's probably far more that I could list here that doesn't immediately come to mind.

 

[Raymora]

BTW - for those who've mentioned the limited number of players that do gvg, I say this:
What percentage of the top 100 players on any server plays or used to play gvg?
What percentage of the top 100 players on any server pays for diamonds?
How many gvg fighters on these servers pay for diamonds?

I mention used to play gvg, since many have quit playing altogether or have stopped playing gvg due to problems playing the game.

I mention diamonds since it is the source of INNO's revenue in game.

If 3% of players do gvg and 5% of players buy diamonds, people may think, out of 1000 players:
1.5 buy diamonds

if 70% of the top 100 plays gvg and 60% of those buy diamonds:
42 buy diamonds

INNO will certainly lose revenue by closing gvg.
The question is, can it create a replacement that can incent people to start buying diamonds.
This is not a suggestion to make Guild Raids a money grab. It needs to be fun on it's own and any diamonds spent need to be organic

 

[Dursland]

What percentage of the top 100 players on any server plays or used to play gvg?

Can't address the rest of your post but as far as I know, in US29 Dilmun I'd count 26 confirmed players out of top 100 that play gvg. Numbers could be greater if I'm missing anyone but it's at least 26/100.

 

[Raymora]

Can't address the rest of your post but as far as I know, in US29 Dilmun I'd count 26 confirmed players out of top 100 that play gvg. Numbers could be greater if I'm missing anyone but it's at least 26/100.

Cool - you're on an older server than me and I may be wrong on the number in Jaims. The point is still that gvg players tend to buy diamonds at a higher rate. My point was that you can't just look at the percentage of players who do gvg. More important for INNO would be the number who spend diamonds. Your number still bears that out

 

[PJS299]

Cool - you're on an older server than me

Dilmun is the newest world...

 

[Dursland]

Yeah Dilmun is D2, only 1 year old.

You're thinking of D1, Dunarsund.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Cool - you're on an older server than me and I may be wrong on the number in Jaims. The point is still that gvg players tend to buy diamonds at a higher rate. My point was that you can't just look at the percentage of players who do gvg. More important for INNO would be the number who spend diamonds. Your number still bears that out

You are guessing about the number of top 100 players that play GvG and the percentage of GvG players that buy diamonds. Guessing. There can be no doubt that INNO has precise data on both of these statistics as well as a myriad of other relevant statistics. I always find it humorous when FOE players seem to think that they know INNO's business better than INNO. Rest assured, INNO knows exactly how many players play GvG and they know exactly how much revenue these players generate. Armed with this information they decided to remove GvG. It was a business decision and I would bet that it was a well considered decision.

 

[Angel.]

GvG brings people together, all working towards the same goal. A lot of people play GBG for personal gains.

Most people can't get on throughout the whole day, so getting on with your friends at reset is fun for a lot of people. Reset, or after work, is really the only free time some people have.

i barley got on at the time it started but played it any time i was on through out the day same as i do with gbg when im on do have a RL but most did do it an still do it at time it starts

 

[Raymora]

You are guessing about the number of top 100 players that play GvG and the percentage of GvG players that buy diamonds. Guessing. There can be no doubt that INNO has precise data on both of these statistics as well as a myriad of other relevant statistics. I always find it humorous when FOE players seem to think that they know INNO's business better than INNO. Rest assured, INNO knows exactly how many players play GvG and they know exactly how much revenue these players generate. Armed with this information they decided to remove GvG. It was a business decision and I would bet that it was a well considered decision.

You're right that INNO know's the numbers and I don't know them.

I do know many of the top 100 in Jaims and the top players of my and ally's guilds. It's very apparent that there is a higher percentage of these top players who pay diamonds compared to non gvg players in those same guilds. These are people I know. I'm not trying to suggest my numbers are accurate. I simply suggest it's not as simple as the percent of gvg players as being what's important to INNO. Also I agree with you, it makes no difference whether you think the numbers are right or wrong. It matters what INNO knows.

I always find it humorous when some in the forum seek out one line to argue rather than discuss the post itself.

 

[Amitola1]

I always find it humorous when some in the forum seek out one line to argue rather than discuss the post itself.

You should jump over here to see this fully in action.

Feedback for the Guild Battlegrounds Update 2023

Please read about the Guild Battlegrounds Update here and give your feedback below.

forum.us.forgeofempires.com

 

[Raymora]

You should jump over here to see this fully in action.

Feedback for the Guild Battlegrounds Update 2023

Please read about the Guild Battlegrounds Update here and give your feedback below.

forum.us.forgeofempires.com

lol

 

[PJS299]

My guild is pushing hard for these last couple of months in GvG. Sad to see it go.

 

[Derp of Greatness]

My guild is pushing hard for these last couple of months in GvG. Sad to see it go.

Mine had just quit GvG less than 2 weeks before they said they were deleting it.. gotta save goods for GBG

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

BTW - for those who've mentioned the limited number of players that do gvg, I say this:
What percentage of the top 100 players on any server plays or used to play gvg?
What percentage of the top 100 players on any server pays for diamonds?
How many gvg fighters on these servers pay for diamonds?

You may be able to make a pretty good guess at how many top 100 players play GvG, but you have no idea how many pay for Diamonds. And any one of them that buys Diamonds to spend on GvG is pretty stupid. As far as I know, healing units is the only way to spend Diamonds in GvG. And anyone who needs to spend Diamonds to heal units shouldn't be playing GvG in the first place. They may buy Diamonds, but it ain't for GvG.

I mention used to play gvg, since many have quit playing altogether or have stopped playing gvg due to problems playing the game.

Or... problems with GvG itself. Such as lag, lack of tangible rewards, or just got bored with it. (That last happens despite how many find it fascinating to play.)

I mention diamonds since it is the source of INNO's revenue in game.

Duh.

If 3% of players do gvg and 5% of players buy diamonds, people may think, out of 1000 players:
1.5 buy diamonds

if 70% of the top 100 plays gvg and 60% of those buy diamonds:
42 buy diamonds

Is it 1000 players or 100 players? And stringing a bunch of "if" statements together with each one of them containing random numbers you made up doesn't make any of the statements valid.

INNO will certainly lose revenue by closing gvg.

You have no way of knowing if this is true. What is probably true is that Inno has decided that they'll lose less revenue by closing GvG then by keeping it.

The question is, can it create a replacement that can incent people to start buying diamonds.

Apparently they think they can. They won't know this for sure until they roll it out. But if it doesn't do what they want it to do, revenue-wise, rest assured that it won't last long.

This is not a suggestion to make Guild Raids a money grab. It needs to be fun on it's own and any diamonds spent need to be organic

Other than saying that Diamonds is the source of Inno's revenue, this is the only statement out of your whole post that's actually valid.

How's that for addressing your entire post?

 

[Emberguard]

The question is, can it create a replacement that can incent people to start buying diamonds.
This is not a suggestion to make Guild Raids a money grab. It needs to be fun on it's own and any diamonds spent need to be organic

I'm curious what you would consider organic VS inorganic

 

[Lafawnduh]

You may be able to make a pretty good guess at how many top 100 players play GvG, but you have no idea how many pay for Diamonds. And any one of them that buys Diamonds to spend on GvG is pretty stupid. As far as I know, healing units is the only way to spend Diamonds in GvG. And anyone who needs to spend Diamonds to heal units shouldn't be playing GvG in the first place. They may buy Diamonds, but it ain't for GvG.

Sure there is. Get stronger to get to the one-shot kill in GVG.

Or... problems with GvG itself. Such as lag, lack of tangible rewards, or just got bored with it. (That last happens despite how many find it fascinating to play.)

Plenty of intangibles, that's what makes it so fun.

You are guessing about the number of top 100 players that play GvG and the percentage of GvG players that buy diamonds. Guessing. There can be no doubt that INNO has precise data on both of these statistics as well as a myriad of other relevant statistics. -- Rest assured, INNO knows exactly how many players play GvG and they know exactly how much revenue these players generate.

Right. They got such good information they can't ban the cheaters even though on several servers the players actually send in tickets with the exact information needed to ban the peeps... yet... yet...

 

[Raymora]

I'm curious what you would consider organic VS inorganic

organic is players wanting to buy diamonds vs INNO making it so you have to spend diamonds to compete. An example would be the latest events where you get a ton more rewards for the silver and gold chests plus making them only available through cash rather than diamonds on hand

 

[Raymora]

You may be able to make a pretty good guess at how many top 100 players play GvG, but you have no idea how many pay for Diamonds. And any one of them that buys Diamonds to spend on GvG is pretty stupid. As far as I know, healing units is the only way to spend Diamonds in GvG. And anyone who needs to spend Diamonds to heal units shouldn't be playing GvG in the first place. They may buy Diamonds, but it ain't for GvG.

I can talk to people who tell me they spend diamonds. Often they give me an idea of how many they buy.

Most events, you could get 1 main event building without spending. When you see others with 3 or 4 of them, you can tell they spent diamonds. When you see players with 10 or more, you know they spent a lot of diamonds.

There are other signs as well.

It's not very hard to tell.

In your immortal words - duh!

Or... problems with GvG itself. Such as lag, lack of tangible rewards, or just got bored with it. (That last happens despite how many find it fascinating to play.)

You're simply describing what I called "problems playing the game" and the gvg players I mention are typically hardcore gvg players who don't get bored of it. They get tired of the issues trying to play it

Duh.

How old are you?

Is it 1000 players or 100 players? And stringing a bunch of "if" statements together with each one of them containing random numbers you made up doesn't make any of the statements valid.

I already responded to another that the numbers were guesses based on observation, but still guesses. I find this a passive aggressive way of saying you don't agree with the numbers.

How's that for addressing your entire post?

I might as well keep my opinion to myself

 

[Douglas 221]

One thing is certain, the new feature will not be the organic excitement which brought so many years of enjoyment to the long term players. One can only hope the new feature will offer some type of excitement and challenge for all guild levels and not just be a further way for top guilds to monopolize with agreements. I highly doubt Inno will consider the list of items which players have continued to stress what has made GvG fun for so long. The ability to defend sector, the more focused time frame, the team work needed, rewards not popping up while trying to fight fast to attain an achievement, and the social aspect which tends to die beyond Thursday morning when everyone jumps on at the same time to own the map.