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GBG

Sharmon the Impaler

Well-Known Member
So 4 players couldn't do it? Or are you saying that all these guilds are solo players? If none of these guilds ever took a sector, then they're not even trying. Only 10 members would make taking one sector a piece of cake. Or were sectors actually taken occasionally and then retaken in time for this particular screenshot?

FYI, I don't like or participate in GBG, and I'm definitely not an "Inno sycophant" nor do I frequently defend Inno anymore (just ask @Pericles the Lion), but trying to say these guilds tried and failed to even take one sector is nonsense.
You mean like the next lower guild that tried their bestest and couldn't get a sector ? The same guild with 393,000 VP from that map ? Must be a massive sector !!. Just in case you're not familiar with the scoring , 393K is a very respectable VP count mid way through the season and represents about 150 sectors flipped. The screenshot was staged and I am not impressed. Look a little closer still and you will see that most of the sectors are unlocked and available to any guild that wants them.
 
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TotalTrash

Member
You mean like the next lower guild that tried their bestest and couldn't get a sector ? The same guild with 393,000 VP from that map ? Must be a massive sector !!. Just in case you're not familiar with the scoring , 393K is a very respectable VP count mid way through the season and represents about 150 sectors flipped. The screenshot was staged and I am not impressed. Look a little closer still and you will see that most of the sectors are unlocked and available to any guild that wants them.
There was nothing staged, but I hear loud suckling noises....

So 4 players couldn't do it? Or are you saying that all these guilds are solo players? If none of these guilds ever took a sector, then they're not even trying. Only 10 members would make taking one sector a piece of cake. Or were sectors actually taken occasionally and then retaken in time for this particular screenshot?

FYI, I don't like or participate in GBG, and I'm definitely not an "Inno sycophant" nor do I frequently defend Inno anymore (just ask @Pericles the Lion), but trying to say these guilds tried and failed to even take one sector is nonsense.

I never said you were a sycophant, but there are others here that should wear the shoe if it fits. Also, I never said that these guilds failed to take a sector. They did take a few sectors over the course of 11 days. One guild tried their hardest to keep up, and we supported them, but in the end, they ran out of goods for camps. The End.

My point is that the system is BROKEN, and praising Inno for their nonsense makes matters worse!
 

Sharmon the Impaler

Well-Known Member
There was nothing staged, but I hear loud suckling noises....



I never said you were a sycophant, but there are others here that should wear the shoe if it fits. Also, I never said that these guilds failed to take a sector. They did take a few sectors over the course of 11 days. One guild tried their hardest to keep up, and we supported them, but in the end, they ran out of goods for camps. The End.

My point is that the system is BROKEN, and praising Inno for their nonsense makes matters worse!
Good choice of name by the way.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
I never said you were a sycophant, but there are others here that should wear the shoe if it fits.
You implied that everyone that disputed your claims was, so...
One guild tried their hardest to keep up, and we supported them, but in the end, they ran out of goods for camps. The End.
That's a guild problem, not a game problem. Are you really trying to say that GBG is broken just because smaller, under-prepared guilds can't compete? I mean, I agree that it's broken (mostly by what players have turned it into), but them not being able to compete is not Inno's fault. Especially if the problem is not enough Treasury goods.
My point is that the system is BROKEN, and praising Inno for their nonsense makes matters worse!
And you think pointing out the obvious fact that under-resourced guilds can't compete will help? Under-resourced guilds shouldn't be able to compete with guilds that prepare properly for the task. If they could, then it would mean that the system was even more broken than it is now.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I think both sides are kind-of talking past each other.

In isolation, the scoreboards posted in this thread aren't a problem. The strongest guild won. Every guild had a shot to do something, whether or not they decided to. System is actually mostly functional in this case. And no amount of better matchmaking would prevent rounds like this entirely as guilds change in strength from time to time (mergers, mass departures, new guilds, etc).

But it is a fair point that the strongest guild in a dominant platinum round being thrust into the pile of 1000-guilds is not even good matchmaking - one season you may have been ranked somewhere around 100th, the next you're deemed a fair match for 1st - that's quite the jump and wholly unrealistic in terms of expectations.

I've personally had less issue with it since the changes - but it's not hard to believe some guilds in some worlds may still be dominated by the yoyo-hell pattern between trivial platinum rounds and hell diamond rounds and rather importantly never getting a "fun" round that's reasonably fair and competitive. It's easier to swallow the bad rounds if regularly there's a fun one and you can justify the unfun rounds as the cost of fun ones.

Now briefly in inno's defense, *great* matchmaking may well be impossible. The parity in guild strength may simply not exist to make good groups consistently on a single world. It probably does exist if it was cross-world, but that's been ruled out as impossible due to technical issues even though they wanted it (stated back when GBG first hit beta and developers actually talked to us).

But I do think they could do better, particularly within the framework of championships they've introduced.

They need to do better with the championship standings as well which have issues. Particularly they should not be counting guilds with platinum and lower victories as the same thing as diamond victories; possibly using "average MMR" over the championship as the primary rank determination and matchmaker, not *current* MMR - so that never leaving 1000 is a prerequisite for being at the top of the standings, and if you don't belong in 1000 you're given a bit of insulation from it. They may also need to fix who/how one gets the trophy building depending on how they change the rankings - perhaps handing out various amounts of fragments to the top 20 guilds in the championship ranking after each round or something.

But once fixed, they really ought to use those standings to make the groups as that would be better than simple MMR - Giving the guilds with a stake in potentially getting the championship win a guarantee to directly face their competition and fight for it. And the guilds that have *never* won a round in diamond or only won 1 round a chance to face their fellow also-rans without the very top guilds involved. A chance to find out who's better amongst the rest rather than just who was left alone the most by the strongest guilds.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
I love when the sycophants come out to defend Inno's lousy game designs!
Here is a screenshot of a previous DIAMOND league season. The victorious guild is a casual guild for little players, and this never happened in the old GBG format. GBG is broken, plain and simple!
Your casual guild for little players has 80 members and at least 1/3 of them are longtime players on Mt Killmore. You need to go to #58 on the guild roster to find the members whose personal score is in the single-digit millions.

Would it surprise you to know that many large guilds have fewer than 30 players who make the bulk of the advances and sometimes fewer than a dozen? I would suspect that for a player like yourself who averages 500 advances a day you'd be fairly familiar with that concept.

The 'old' GBG system was really not all that different from the 'new' system. People are going to farm for forge points regardless of what roadblocks Inno throws in their way. Attrition caps? "We'll build bigger, stronger cities!" More advances per tile? "We'll spread out our timers to accomodate all of our members' abilites and fight around the clock!" As they say, "Every time you build a better mousetrap...."

Whether the game design is lousy or not is a question for the sages. We players have at least one thing in common: we like to figure things out. The 'new' battlegrounds is just another puzzle for us to work on. Inno's counting on it.
 
The 'old' GBG system was really not all that different from the 'new' system. People are going to farm for forge points regardless of what roadblocks Inno throws in their way.
Farming is dead. Victory Points are what matter now, and if a guild has to give up fights in order to control tiles and rack up victory points, then that is what is done. My experience in this new Battlegrounds world has proven that. Yeah, players will still want rewards from fights, but if you pander to that, then you're missing the point of the new game.
 

jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
Its way past time to give up this new GbG nonsense and go back to the old GbG. That way players could go back to enjoying GbG instead of it turning into the sh*tshow i is today.
Maybe to appease inno they could marginally drop the diamond drop rate from GbG battles also.
 

jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
Farming is dead. Victory Points are what matter now, and if a guild has to give up fights in order to control tiles and rack up victory points, then that is what is done. My experience in this new Battlegrounds world has proven that. Yeah, players will still want rewards from fights, but if you pander to that, then you're missing the point of the new game.
focusing on VP is a dumb idea. What do you gain by placing first in the championship? Nothing of any tangible value. Also, with all the ways VP can be skewed having the most VP is about as good of an accomplishment as using scripts to get first in the old rankings. What matters is winning maps to get tower of champion fragments and getting fights to get what rewards that can still be had after attrition free ended and diamond rewards in GbG were nerfed.
 

jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
Your casual guild for little players has 80 members and at least 1/3 of them are longtime players on Mt Killmore. You need to go to #58 on the guild roster to find the members whose personal score is in the single-digit millions.

Would it surprise you to know that many large guilds have fewer than 30 players who make the bulk of the advances and sometimes fewer than a dozen? I would suspect that for a player like yourself who averages 500 advances a day you'd be fairly familiar with that concept.

The 'old' GBG system was really not all that different from the 'new' system. People are going to farm for forge points regardless of what roadblocks Inno throws in their way. Attrition caps? "We'll build bigger, stronger cities!" More advances per tile? "We'll spread out our timers to accomodate all of our members' abilites and fight around the clock!" As they say, "Every time you build a better mousetrap...."

Whether the game design is lousy or not is a question for the sages. We players have at least one thing in common: we like to figure things out. The 'new' battlegrounds is just another puzzle for us to work on. Inno's counting on it.
This is true. Most good gbg guilds continue to farm the map. Only time it comes to a fight is if two top guilds meet and they both are going hard for the victory to get lv 2 tower of champions. Going for VP will benefit no one but inno since guilds doing this spend more diamonds lol
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
This is true. Most good gbg guilds continue to farm the map. Only time it comes to a fight is if two top guilds meet and they both are going hard for the victory to get lv 2 tower of champions. Going for VP will benefit no one but inno since guilds doing this spend more diamonds lol
Going for VP benefits the top three Diamond League finishers whether, or not, they spent diamonds.
 
What matters is winning maps to get tower of champion fragments
You can win numerous Seasons, and still lose the war. Have to win 5 Seasons to get a Level 2 prize building, and the winners are determined by VPs, not rewards. Battlegrounds is now the "Inno Diamonds Slot Machine." If you don't rush Command Posts, you forego VPs, and you won't win the map or the frags.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
You can win numerous Seasons, and still lose the war. Have to win 5 Seasons to get a Level 2 prize building, and the winners are determined by VPs, not rewards. Battlegrounds is now the "Inno Diamonds Slot Machine." If you don't rush Command Posts, you forego VPs, and you won't win the map or the frags.
We really don't know if the only way to get a L2 Tower of Champions is by winning five seasons. The GBG Announcement said that the Championship buildings were designed "with rotation in mind". This sounds like we will be seeing the ToC again in a future championship season. If so, there will be other ways, besides 5 season wins, to get the L2 ToC.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
Farming is dead.
In your experience. In mine I see even more players farming for fps because now they can fight around the clock and players that once managed only about 300-400 advances in a season are making 400-600 or more. That's money in the bank for them.
Victory Points are what matter now, and if a guild has to give up fights in order to control tiles and rack up victory points, then that is what is done. My experience in this new Battlegrounds world has proven that. Yeah, players will still want rewards from fights, but if you pander to that, then you're missing the point of the new game.
I think it's a bit soon to do more than speculate about the future of the changes made to battlegrounds. We've not even finished the first championship! Those who were undefeated at the beginning of the current season had just earned enough fragments for the ToC to add a second one or level up to two.

I suspect that it will take a few championships to see how the scores fall out based on VPs and the ever-mysterious "X' factor that will determine the winner.
 

Orius Maximus

Well-Known Member
Anyone got any ideas?

Yeah, just admit that you want to fight us again. :)

I've been saying from the start though that the new matchmaking is whacked. Last season the game dumped us on a map with the #2 and the rest of the guilds were ranked in the 30s. I didn't bother making much of an effort to save our guild goods and because the season started on Thanksgiving I figured that would put us at a bigger disadvantage. This season, we're matched up with guilds that are all similarly ranked. There are definitely problems with DL matchups. I also don't like being matched up against guys who deliberately wash out of DL because they want easier seasons either.
 
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jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
You can win numerous Seasons, and still lose the war. Have to win 5 Seasons to get a Level 2 prize building, and the winners are determined by VPs, not rewards. Battlegrounds is now the "Inno Diamonds Slot Machine." If you don't rush Command Posts, you forego VPs, and you won't win the map or the frags.
That is not what I am talking about-good guilds will go for the win and they will neccessarily aim to control more sectors and get more vp for that matchup. That is not what I am talking about and it doesn't normally require a lot of camp rushes besides at GbG start when all the strong guilds rush camps. I am talking about it being a dumb idea to go for extra vp that is not even needed to win the map and that comes at the expense of maxing the fights that the guild can get (farming) Farming is not close to dead and will no die anytime soon.
 

jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
just had a guild on our GbG map claim that inno is flipping sectors to try to start wars in GbG lol I can't believe any guild would actually come up with that lame story!
Also, not sure about all worlds but on B world its still typical to farm sectors for rewards and the only time it gets to FFA is if 2 top guilds are on a map and can't agree on who gets first. C world seems the same way though I am in a medium diamond guild there not a top one so am less certain of that. In any case FFA in GbG mostly benifits inno and causes guilds to spend more goods and diamonds and receive less rewards so not sure why any would want the hassle of FFA if its not neccessary.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
just had a guild on our GbG map claim that inno is flipping sectors to try to start wars in GbG lol I can't believe any guild would actually come up with that lame story!
Also, not sure about all worlds but on B world its still typical to farm sectors for rewards and the only time it gets to FFA is if 2 top guilds are on a map and can't agree on who gets first. C world seems the same way though I am in a medium diamond guild there not a top one so am less certain of that. In any case FFA in GbG mostly benifits inno and causes guilds to spend more goods and diamonds and receive less rewards so not sure why any would want the hassle of FFA if its not neccessary.
1 strong guild with 6-7 weaker ones will end up with swap farming. 2, or more, strong guilds (i.e. guilds in contention for the L2 tower) will result in FFA for the reason that you cited. They won't agree on who gets first place.
 

jaymoney23456

Well-Known Member
1 strong guild with 6-7 weaker ones will end up with swap farming. 2, or more, strong guilds (i.e. guilds in contention for the L2 tower) will result in FFA for the reason that you cited. They won't agree on who gets first place.
On B world there is 3 guilds max that would fight it out for first if they met and not even them nearly all the time. I know this because I am a founder in one of those guilds.
 
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