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Global Cooling(oops) how about warming?

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by karmacanic, Jun 19, 2017.

?

Climate change or Extortion?

  1. Climate change

    22 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. Extortion

    16 vote(s)
    42.1%
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  1. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    When has the sun gone dark?

    Regarding Mars, Elon Musk had a an idea. :p
     
  2. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Alligator fossils in Canada would lead me to believe that there were Alligators in Canada when it was warm enough for them to live there. Vikings went to Greenland when it was green & lived farmed & died there, as a result of death they were buried there & since than disappeared under perma frost, which is as hard as ice can get & is almost impossible to dig through, which tells me that they were buried there before the perma frost which occured from climate change which is a natural cyclical behavior on this planet.
    I agree people need to be accountable & this country has done more to clean up the enviorement than any other country, while China, India, Mexico & other countries are exempt from the Paris accords, & China & Inadia are the 2 biggest countries in population in the world.
     
    Zatrikon likes this.
  3. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    I was saying what if the Sun went dark? It's just an "idea" I used to ask those who don't believe the Sun affects our climate.
    In the 70's I had an idea about Mars & wrote a short story on it, so Elon Musks' idea means nothing to me.
     
  4. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    The sun has been around for around 4.5 billion years. It's been increasing in intensity over that time. However, the sun doesn't have a significant impact on climate change over short (human) time frames (say a century) because solar activity does not change significantly over short time frames or at least not in any long term trend.

    The vikings had 3 settlements on the southern tip of greenland. There are still settlements there today. The greenland ice sheet, though, has been around for nearly half a million years.

    I don't think anyone is claiming the climate never changes since it obviously does and in fact most climate change is natural. What's remarkable, though, is that people think that equating events that occurred over millions of years (alligators romaing around in canada) to events occuring over a few decades makes any sense.
     
  5. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    In the 70's the experts said the earth would be much cooler by 2000, well the experts were wrong, than the Earth was going to heat up oops that didn't happen so they changed it to "climate change" which is really just a generic term so that they could continue on w/ thier narrative. You see they can't let this go because they know it gives them the most time to control people to the point where in the future people won't know that a hoax was even perpetrated.
    I don't assume, you know what assuming does don't you.
    If I was a famous Follywood celebrity my comments on all this would be praised.
     
    Zatrikon likes this.
  6. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    That was my point, that millions of years ago it was much warmer & than came an ice age & than it gave way to warming & so on. I think we are coming to the peak from the last ice age from aprox. 1500 onward, these cycles happen over a very, very long time.
     
  7. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    I remember when Katrina happened & it was reported by experts that hurricanes of that severity would be the new norm & we would have many of them every season. Ok we had Sandy, how many have we had between them or since Sandy? Maybe Owebama stopped them like he did w/ Syria & Putin.lol
     
  8. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014

    I see, so the thermometer is to blame, so I guess we can throw out everything previous to the thermometer & base "climate change" solely from the history of the thermometer.
    Thanks for that I'm even more sure now that man made climate change is a hoax & have no need to even talk about this anymore, good day.
     
  9. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    One need not have access to a thermometer to recognize that grapes for winemaking grew in Scotland during the Medieval Warming Period. Grapes need warm temperatures- typically much warmer than Scotland usually has- in order to thrive. With zero SUVs or coal-fired power plants around, wine was made in Scotland roughly 800 years ago.

    Sandy was hardly a unique event. The northeast has seen severe storms before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_England_hurricanes). Latching on to a single event as somehow being 'proof' of AGW is fallacious in the extreme.

    Finally, for anyone to ever hope to be taken seriously if the argue that AGW is real and catastrophic, you need to explain away this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich.

    Here's just one quote from this loon: " I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."

    Last I noticed, Paul, England was still there.
     
    Zatrikon likes this.
  10. plinker

    plinker Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund, Walstrand
    I remember the cover story on a Time magazine that came out in the 80's titled "Is the next Ice Age Coming"? In the article, so called experts predicted that the polar ice cap would extend down to the Dakotas. Now, two things that I know, 1. Weather goes in cycles. There has been heating and cooling periods as long as there has been a planet Earth. 2. *Isn't it funny that we never heard about this until Gore lost his bid to be President? I say follow the money!
     
  11. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Who are these experts you keep mentioning?
     
  12. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    I don't blame the scientists who, in the 1970s, were predicting, based on the best data they could acquire at that time, predicted massive and potentially catastrophic global cooling. I don't think there were any nefarious motives behind their pronouncements; they simply made a mistake.

    Fortunately, their mistake was not compounded by governments which would use their authority to force massive changes on their citizenry to 'solve' a 'problem' which, further investigation would prove, did not exist. What might the damage to our current climate be if we had taken deliberate action to artificially warm the planet in the 40 years since that exact suggestion was made?

    There is little doubt that, for some portion of the scientists who could best be described as climate change hysterics, there is a political and ideological agenda at work. I do not think that describes all of them or even most of them, but it clearly does describe those with the loudest voices or the largest platforms. There can be no other reason why the Paris climate deal required the United States to essentially stagnate its economy by immediately forcing enormously disproportionate cuts in so-called "greenhouse gases" while allowing nations such as China and India to continue increasing the same dangerous greenhouse gases for up to 13 more years before instituting even modest reductions. If the situation is truly as dire as the hysterics claim, the time for reductions is NOW for EVERYBODY, not now for some (or one) and 'eventually' (if ever) for others.
     
    Titris Thrawns and plinker like this.
  13. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    I already posted a link to a document with the general scientific consensus of climate trends from the 1970s and it shows that your premise is false. There was no prediction of "massive and potentially catastrophic global cooling." There was an observation of certain cooling trends that might continue for the short term but there was no expectation it was a long term trend. So unless you can post actual evidence of your claim, I think the rest of it can be ignored.
     
    Kataphractos likes this.
  14. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Not so.

    Research has proven that certain vegetation, which needs a relatively warn climate in which to thrive, did so in areas further north and further south of historical ranges during those time periods.

    Beyond that, there has been found numerous times fossils of animals and plants which grew in temperate areas found in places like Siberia, which conclusively proves that the planet was warmer than it is now absent not only the activities of mankind but their very existence.

    Unless dinosaurs drove SUVs of course....
     
    Kataphractos likes this.
  15. W3Forge

    W3Forge Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Facts mean nothing to climate change deniers. Mere words to wind past with some other example of their experience that fits their narrative.

    One thing that is sure, global warming is good for Russia, new shipping lanes opening as we speak and of course with a land mass that is almost entirely north of our coldest states a few or 10 or 15 degrees of warming could potentially make life much better there.

    Funny how things change in the world geo-political landscape over the course of just a few decades.
     
  16. Dursland

    Dursland I am Dursland Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Facts mean nothing to a great deal of people, sadly.
     
  17. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Guest

    You're talking about Siberia. The problem is, there are cities in Siberia -- four with populations of over a million people! -- and those cities are founded on sub-surface permafrost. As the permafrost thaws, buildings are losing their foundations and starting to collapse. In addition, when permafrost thaws, it doesn't instantly turn into dry, solid ground: it usually becomes bogs and marshes, which have to be drained if you want to use them for anything. We're looking at millions and millions of square miles of swamp. Oh, plus millions and millions of tons of flammable swamp gas, which has been building up in Siberia since the Ice Age.

    So: good for Moscow, maybe. But everybody east of the Urals is looking at a life like that guy from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Build a city; it sinks into the swamp. Build a second one; it sinks into the swamp. Build a third one; it burns down, falls over, and then sinks into the swamp. But the fourth one...
     
  18. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Guest

    I notice you wrote this back in July. Come August, it ain't so funny, is it?
     
  19. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Guest

    It's called "terraforming". If you grew up in the 1960s like you say, proposals to terraform Mars have been around for literally as long as you have been alive. Mars has plenty of greenhouse gases locked up in its ice caps, so most of these proposals center on melting the ice somehow to release that gas.
     
    Titris Thrawns likes this.
  20. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Guest

    I hate to agree with the Denial Crew on anything, but technically...sir, you're dead wrong on this one. The global temperature has varied by a few fractions of a degree throughout written history. This is known from all sorts of physical evidence (including Arctic and Antarctic ice-cores, dendrochronology, deposits of various materials at the bottom of the sea, blah-blah-blah).

    That said, we're not talking about "a few fractions of a degree" at this point. The Earth is already warmer than it has been since before dogs were a thing...and at some point within the lives of either our children or grandchildren, it's going to get warmer than it has been since before stone tools were a thing. That's not "conjecture", that's just basic math. Math which we've known since Svante friggin' Arrhenius, back in 1906. "X tons of burned-up coal and oil, multiplied by Y number of years, plus the fundamental laws of chemistry and thermodynamics, equals..." If you think that mathematics itself is a plot by Zombie Lenin to take over the world, and any minute now he's going to smash out of his glass coffin screaming "MUST CRUSH CAPITALISM", and blow up America with TI-84 graphing calculators...well, that's on you.

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline.png
     

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