Make Space Needle and Lotus Temple Great Again

[DeletedUser13838]

I believe DT gives refined goods. The nice thing about a DT is that one can control the age of the goods one receives from it.

But you had to level it to level 80. Yes, it has (very) good FP/tile production, but it had to take a while to get there. I can't imagine most players being able to get it to level 80 when they are in lower ages.

Yes, DT gives refined goods and is much more useful at lower levels than higher levels.

Hagia is an EMA building so it is cheap to level and above level 15 it is better than the same space used by SOKs while not requiring all those motivations.

 

[DeletedUser28371]

I'm one of the players you insulted, that's who.

Then bub get a thicker hide. You want to sit in HMA, go for it. As I said earlier, I gave an opinion. You don't have to read it. Its called self control.

 

[Graviton]

Yes, DT gives refined goods and is much more useful at lower levels than higher levels.

Hagia is an EMA building so it is cheap to level and above level 15 it is better than the same space used by SOKs while not requiring all those motivations.

I find that the DT's usefulness depends upon the ages of one's neighbors. I have one in my AF city and I'm piling up OF and VF goods with it. I'd say that's pretty valuable, it's enabled me to build a TA without buying goods.

Conversely I've never built a Hagia in any of my seven cities. Way too big for the early game.

 

[Mustapha00]

If I ever decide to start another city, if my wife doesn't shoot me for 'wasting' even more time on a computer game, I think one of the first GBs I'll try to trade FPs for the goods to build is a Dynamic Tower. If you are in an older world that has plenty of advanced Age players and can fill your Friends List with them and join a Guild that has plenty of advanced players, I can't think of an easier way to acquire later Age goods than with a decent-level DT.

 

[Salsuero]

Then bub get a thicker hide. You want to sit in HMA, go for it. As I said earlier, I gave an opinion. You don't have to read it. Its called self control.

I didn't say you "hurt my feelings" -- I said, factually, that you insulted "us" because you think you're right and the rest of "us" are wrong, to help make your point, which is a terrible way to do so. I expect that from some... which, in fact I don't read. I don't expect that from people who barely register as existing in these forums. And how would you know not to read something until after you've read it? What logic!!! Who are you? Someone here who's opinion is worth just as little to nothing as mine. Next!

 

[DeletedUser13838]

I find that the DT's usefulness depends upon the ages of one's neighbors. I have one in my AF city and I'm piling up OF and VF goods with it. I'd say that's pretty valuable, it's enabled me to build a TA without buying goods.

Conversely I've never built a Hagia in any of my seven cities. Way too big for the early game.

Presumably your hood should be the same era as you with a few exceptions. At lower eras you can friend players from any era you want to target and as you increase in age you should have the goods you need to build GBs.

I can understand not wanting to build Hagia right away but in terms of fp production it doesn't take much for it to become more efficient than event buildings. Once you have the fp production to level Hagia reasonably quickly I'd recommend building it.

 

[Salsuero]

I find that the DT's usefulness depends upon the ages of one's neighbors. I have one in my AF city and I'm piling up OF and VF goods with it. I'd say that's pretty valuable, it's enabled me to build a TA without buying goods.

I find that its usefulness is based on my friends list. I've used it both to minimize the need to pay for and to entirely collect the full set of goods to build several higher-age GBs. It's one of the best GBs in the game, I think.

Conversely I've never built a Hagia in any of my seven cities. Way too big for the early game.

I'd agree with that as well.

 

[Salsuero]

Once you have the fp production to level Hagia reasonably quickly I'd recommend building it.

But how many FPs do you have to spend to get it to where it's "reasonable" for the space? By the time you've done that, you could've used those FPs on other FP-producing GBs to gain more FPs and still been using that space for other FP-producing buildings instead of the Hagia. I think it's very expensive in both space and FPs to level, so justifying building it is a really tough sell.

 

[Graviton]

Thank you both for the correction, I did mean to say friends rather than neighbors.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

But how many FPs do you have to spend to get it to where it's "reasonable" for the space? By the time you've done that, you could've used those FPs on other FP-producing GBs to gain more FPs and still been using that space for other FP-producing buildings instead of the Hagia. I think it's very expensive in both space and FPs to level, so justifying building it is a really tough sell.

I don't want to compare CDM which increases fp at the same rate has hagia because it has a military element which has value (unlike happiness for the most part).

It costs 17.8k to level hagia from 15 to 35 to gain 12fp/day
It costs 22.4k to level cape from 30 to 43 to gain 12fp/day

From what I can determine, it you have 9 SoKs and leveling your cape to 80 before you build and level your hagia you're costing yourself fps.

 

[Salsuero]

It costs 22.4k to level cape from 30 to 43 to gain 12fp/day

Huh? I get 12 FPs daily at level 12 on my Cape and it's only 4x5.

From what I can determine, it you have 9 SoKs and leveling your cape to 80 before you build and level your hagia you're costing yourself fps.

But you can use the coins for recurring quests and you can move those SoKs much easier around your map to make room for new and exciting things... or delete some or all of them if need be and not have to curse all the lost FPs spent leveling them.

 

[Emberguard]

And who are you decide whether they get to decide whether you get to decide whether it is personal enjoyment or stupidity?

But then.... Who am I to decide whether you decide whether they decide whether you decide whether it is personal enjoyment or stupidity?

And then who am I to like and reply to your post?

Oh wait, I'm one of users of the thread

But how many FPs do you have to spend to get it to where it's "reasonable" for the space? By the time you've done that, you could've used those FPs on other FP-producing GBs to gain more FPs and still been using that space for other FP-producing buildings instead of the Hagia. I think it's very expensive in both space and FPs to level, so justifying building it is a really tough sell.

Conversely I've never built a Hagia in any of my seven cities. Way too big for the early game.

It depends on your cities needs as to whether the happiness is a plus or a non-factor in your decision of which GBs to place

For players placing advanced GBs and are also fighting the Alcatraz may take priority.

For non-fighters it makes no sense to use a Alcatraz. You still need happiness. For a early age player a lvl 1 Hagia replaces the same space that cultural buildings would take up for that age and pays back in full the FPs within 2 months.

That to me makes it worth the space to build the Hagia either temporarily or on a permanent basis. For the same space a Alcatraz takes for happiness you could place both the Hagia and another Happiness GB that has a more useful element then unattached troops if you just don't fight but still do GE.

For Houndsmoor (en) I've got Hagia, Dresden and Alcatraz. I find the Hagia well worth the FPs as its more efficient then trying to only lvl one thing at a time and the Alcatraz wasn't an option for that city at the time of building the Hagia. Something that I really needed to improve both happiness and FP income at the time

 

[Salsuero]

For a early age player a lvl 1 Hagia replaces the same space that cultural buildings would take up for that age and pays back in full the FPs within 2 months.

That could be true, but I never built the Hagia and didn't have an issue with happiness before I built the Alcatraz. I made do just fine without either and I had plenty of forge points. So yes, I agree it can be worthwhile, but it's hardly necessary. I don't think it pays back the FPs in 2 months because you could've used those FPs on other things in the meantime. It may breakeven, but it means you lost a full 2 months of progress in other potentially meaningful ways just to breakeven on something.

For the same space a Alcatraz takes for happiness you could place both the Hagia and another Happiness GB that has a more useful element then unattached troops if you just don't fight but still do GE.

In theory, you shouldn't really need that much happiness until you're at a place where building the Alcatraz wouldn't be a space issue, but sure... you can certainly go that route. I just wouldn't recommend it, personally. Just my opinion (and some who agree). The way the game is structured, you probably give up a lot by not making disposable troops at some point (GE, DC, events, etc.). But I know you can play this game without fighting... I do so minimally myself. It's a choice and if you wanna build the Hagia, go right ahead. I would personally not consider it a wise choice, but I'm just one player and there are several in these forums that don't really respect my opinion either way, so take it for whatever it's worth to you.

I find the Hagia well worth the FPs as its more efficient then trying to only lvl one thing at a time

Cool, looks like you found a good use for it yourself. I stand by my previous comments. No need to restate the same thing yet again.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

Huh? I get 12 FPs daily at level 12 on my Cape and it's only 4x5.

Let me rephrase my comment to make it clear (and correct a mistake).

Going from a level 31 cape to a level 43 cape gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 20.9k fp.
Going from a level 15 hagia to a level 35 hagia gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 17.8k fp.

 

[DeletedUser30900]

Let me rephrase my comment to make it clear (and correct a mistake).

Going from a level 31 cape to a level 43 cape gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 20.9k fp.
Going from a level 15 hagia to a level 35 hagia gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 17.8k fp.

Hagia is too big for his camper city. That’s the only reason he’s saying all that. Stop trying to argue with this guy. Quite pointless.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

for the last time..cape is better then hagia for 1 who has a traz and thats IT!!

 

[Salsuero]

Hagia is too big for his camper city. That’s the only reason he’s saying all that. Stop trying to argue with this guy. Quite pointless.

You still think you know everything about me and my town. Sad. Why not pay attention to your own game, hater? Seriously. What's your problem? I don't hate on your decision NOT to camp. Just silly, really. If I wanted to build the Hagia, I would. I don't have an issue with using space. I have an issue with using space in a way that isn't as useful as another way may be. Do I look like I'm FP or happiness poor? There's no reason for you to respond to me by insinuating that I'm somehow inferior to you or that my style of play doesn't work. You need another hobby.




For the record, I only get 13,371 happiness from my Alcatraz... so I'd still be in the positive without it. I still wouldn't need the Hagia and I'd be just fine. And if I suddenly needed more... I could just upgrade my roads using the 107 million coins and 70 million supplies I've got sitting in the bank.

 

[Salsuero]

Let me rephrase my comment to make it clear (and correct a mistake).

Going from a level 31 cape to a level 43 cape gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 20.9k fp.
Going from a level 15 hagia to a level 35 hagia gives you an additional 12 fp/day and costs 17.8k fp.

Ok, sure. But going for the same amount of FPs that you would need to replace the production of SoKs (though you'd be giving up a lot of coins you could use toward recurring quests, so there's something to be said about that) -- 10.5 of them not counting roads, so let's go with 8 of them to factor some roads in -- you'd need to get your Hagia to level 14. That's 5,506 FPs. With the Cape, you only need to get to level 9 and that's just 3,430 FPs. Plus, it's more than half the size of the Hagia. You get 7,573 happiness from the Hagia, true... but you could get a lot of happiness from the saved space and keep working on that Cape. For less FPs, you could get the Cape to level 11, part way to 12 even, and be producing 3 more FPs daily. How many people are at a point where they would be leveling their Hagia from 15 to 35 that aren't advanced enough not to need the happiness -- or the FPs for that matter? I mean... going from level 15 to 27 on your Cape would gain you the same 12 FPs as going from 15 to 35 on the Hagia, but only cost you 14k to get there, almost 4k less than Hagia! Why did you start at level 31 on the Cape but only 15 on Hagia? Obviously the higher the level you start on, the more it costs.

From what I can determine, it you have 9 SoKs and leveling your cape to 80 before you build and level your hagia you're costing yourself fps.

And let's look at this one... sure, a level 80 Cape will cost you more than a level 80 Hagia... but you get 80 FPs from a level 80 Cape and only 48 from a Hagia. The Cape pays almost double back!

 

[UBERhelp1]

I believe that someone made a chart showing FP producing GB's time of paying back their investment. Cape is (obviously) the highest.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

\
i have enough happiness from traz im in hma.

If you want to power level your inno for the FP (which is very cheap considering) you need to not just have traz but also hagia since it provides FP as well as happy, the two things you want most of because a high inno will begin to make too much population for even a high level traz to handle. These two FP producers work together.

The space of inno and hagia can produce 100+ Fp combined, 96 I think it is for both just at level 60. Once you do your Cape and CDM the FP producers are more expensive. AO very much worth it for fighters but more expensive. Kraken meh for fighters and very expensive. Hagia and inno are both dirt cheap by comparison. Get the cheap FP first, use it to fund the more expensive FP unless you are a GvG fighter using the AO critical hit bonus as well.

I believe that someone made a chart showing FP producing GB's time of paying back their investment. Cape is (obviously) the highest.

I'd be interested in seeing that if anyone can remember where it was posted.

I didn't do that but I did make a spread sheet for Cape to 60 before I worked it. If you use arcs and apply the double dip to the cape itself the final user cost is 12854 to get it to 60. Once it’s producing 60/day it takes 214 days to make up what you’ve spent on it, from day 215 on you’re out of the red and getting +60 everyday. So looking at it over the cost of one year from putting it down you’re already up 9,060 points before the close of 365 days of working it and profiting from it. There's a lot of people who don't see the value in spending all those FP to get a single more FP per day but you have to look at the bigger picture, if you plan on playing the game for a length of time, getting it up and getting it up ASAP pays off huge in the long term.

InB4 @Stephen Longshanks saying how arc ruined the game..
Congrats on your Modness. I'm glad to see such a frequent, long time poster stepping up to that plate. For all the people I disagree with, you Sir are my favorite =)