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Manafort...convicted felon...

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by ahsay, Aug 21, 2018.

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  1. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

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    Jan 17, 2015
    Funny...every Potus since Nixon managed to hire quality people to run the country. Tell me the last time a cabinet member or senior staff got fired by any Potus other than Herr Combover? What's that none? Over 40 years and not even one?

    How many Senior Staff over that time have been convicted? Not one? Well surely there's been at least one Cabinet Member that got fired for ethics violations. Not one? Damn...that rump is a stunning example of failure. How incompetent of a potus do you have to be to get fired yourself?
     
  2. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Worlds:
    East Nagash, Fel Dranghyr, Walstrand, Xyr, Yorkton
    President Ford:
    Henry Kissinger, National Security Advisor
    James Schlesinger, Secretary of Defense
    William Colby, CIA Director
    Nelson Rockefeller, Vice President (removed from ticket as running mate for next election)

    Jimmy Carter:
    Joselph Califano, Secretary of H.E.W.
    James Schlesinger, Secretary of Energy
    W. Michael Blumenthal, Treasury Secretary
    Brock Adams, Secretary of Transportation

    Ronald Reagan:
    Alexander Haig, Secretary of State
    Anne Gorsuch, EPA Administrator

    George H.W. Bush:
    Lauro Cavazos, Secretary of Education

    Bill Clinton:
    William Sessions, FBI Director
    Les Aspin, Secretary of Defense
    Jeycelyn Elders, Surgeon General
    Mike Espy, Secretary fo Agriculture

    George W. Bush:
    Paul O'Neill, Secretary of Treasury
    Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
    Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General
    Alphonso Jackson, Secretary of HUD

    Barack Obama:
    Dennis Blair, Director of National Intelligence
    Stanely McChrystal, Commander of International Securty Assistance Force
    David Petraeus, Director of the CIA
    Michael Flynn, Director of Defense Intelligence Agency
     
  3. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

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    Jan 17, 2015
    Really Ozyman?...how many of those were Hired by the potus that fired them...yeah I didn't think so. But just for giggles I'll play it your way. Let's take Mr Obama. That's 4 fired in 8 years...Herr Combover doubled that in two years. AND... You might want to learn what "Senior Staff" and "Cabinet" means...the director of the CIA is neither.

    Riddle me this one...how many "Cabinet" members were fired for ethics violations? How many were convicted? Not even a nice try but thank you for playing.
     
  4. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like loophole answers, don't ask loophole ridden questions.
     
    Stephen Longshanks likes this.
  5. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy Carter hired and fired James Schlesinger
    Jimmy Carter hired and fired Joseph Califano.

    I don't feel it's necessary to do much more on that front.

    Director of the CIA is currently a cabinet level position and has been since 2017. Prior to 2005 it was a weird role that wasn't cabinet but was an advisory role, depending on the President that role would have had more power than under others. I would consider this a much more important position than the Secretary of HUD for instance, but you do you.

    Take the time to fully flesh out your incoherent thoughts into a single logical question that incorporates everything you actually want to ask. Don't ask a question then get proven wrong, narrow the band, get proven wrong, narrow the band and now you've proven your point!!! No, you look like a idiotic child.
     
  6. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Listen, Trump is a piece of crap. On that you and I agree. However, you are accomplishing nothing with these frequently incoherent rants you're posting. Please stop. Or take the time to make coherent, well-researched points. Either one would be better than what you're doing now.
     
  7. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015

    >>>How many Senior Staff over that time have been convicted? Not one? Well surely there's been at least one Cabinet Member that got fired for ethics violations. Not one? Damn...that rump is a stunning example of failure. How incompetent of a potus do you have to be to get fired yourself?<<<

    So much for narrowing the band.
     
  8. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Ozy seemed to understand my "incoherent rants". They must be a hell of a lot smarter I suppose.
     
  9. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    @ahsay, I'm going to play this game exactly the way that you do. I have an extremely narrow focus in this thread. I don't give a crap about the argument in either direction, but I don't appreciate blatantly false broad statements that you then try to back up with narrow statements regarding the earlier false broad statement. Don't make the broad statement if it's not true.

     
    Titris Thrawns likes this.
  10. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Stephan Longshanks... Ozyman just proved my point. My bombastic ravings raised his ire enough to, once again, prove my point. The point is that Herr Orangutan has exceeded what could possibly be construed as reasonable hiring and firing. Our Dairy Queen Cheeto has hired, incompetents, criminals and people he can't get along with.

    Insofar as the sophomoric way I've chosen to present myself...I'm emulating Herr Dick-tater. I'm embracing the wunderkind's wild wacky way with words. So sorry my attempt at satire fails you. I'll try to do better.
     
  11. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    I made that statement so someone, such as yourself would take it to heart to prove me wrong, proving my point.

    We can quible over the details, is the CIA a cabinet position? I looked at Wikipedia and answers.com and both say no. Schlesenger, he resigned...that's the official record. Was it actually a firing, maybe? But then I'd make the argument that Herr Grabinpussy isn't even smart enough to ask for a resignation. What decent human being takes pride in firing people?
     
  12. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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  13. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    "In less than two years my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country" Then the world laughed.

    "Tell me the last time a cabinet member or senior staff got fired by any Potus other than Herr Combover? What's that none? Over 40 years and not even one?" Then those that post here...laughed or lost their ****.
     
  14. RazorbackPirate

    RazorbackPirate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Suppose you knew the head of Exxon-Mobil, Rex Tillerson was part of the Cabal that keeps the U.S. in a perpetual state of war in the Middle East. Suppose you felt he was a little too cozy with folks like Vladimir Putin and he had a record of propping up brutal dictators around the world while selling out U.S. interests to enrich himself and his corporate masters. How do you get rid of such a man? You take advantage of his ego and offer him a job he can't refuse, U.S. Secretary of State. He willingly steps down from his position with Exxon-Mobil, no longer the head. Perfect. You wait until Exxon-Mobil has a new CEO firmly in place so there's no job for him to return to, then you get rid of him. Check and mate. Rex Tillerson is no longer in charge of Exxon-Mobil and is no longer in a position to sell out U.S. interests to enrich himself.

    After seeing it first hand from the inside, suppose you felt Reince Priebus was running the Republican Party in a shady manner and seemed to be working in lock step with the Bush's who you know are part of the Deep State. How do you get rid of such a man? You take advantage of his ego and offer him a job he can't refuse, White House Chief of staff. He willingly steps down from his position with the RNC, no longer head. Perfect. You wait until the RNC has a new Chair firmly in place, the one you recommended, Ronna Romney-McDaniel, then you get rid of him. Check and mate. Reince Priebus is no longer Chair of the RNC which breaks the grip the Bush's have on the party.

    Why Ronna Romney-McDaniel? Because putting Ronna Romney-McDaniel in charge of the RNC also silences her uncle Mitt Romney, previously one of your staunchest critics and defacto head of the now defunct Never-Trump faction of the Republican Party. Bonus check and mate.

    Suppose you felt a former Obama intelligence official, Micheal Flynn, upon his retirement from the military was, through his consulting company, possibly selling state secrets illegally obtained from both military and Obama administration leakers to foreign governments? How do you get rid of such a man? You take advantage of his ego and offer him a job he can't refuse, National Security Advisor. He willingly closes his consulting company. Perfect. Knowing he'll just try to use his new position to keep selling state secrets and enriching himself, you wait until you can catch him in a lie, to the Vice President of all people, then fire him in disgrace and make him so toxic, no one will ever touch him again. Check and mate.

    Suppose you have an important swing state, South Carolina, with a popular second (final) term Governor, Nikki Haley, who was an early, vocal anti-Tumper. You know South Carolina, a state you barely won in the recent election, as well as an early primary state, will be critical to both your agenda and re-election moving forward. How do you get rid of such a woman? You take advantage of her ego and offer her a job she can't refuse, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. She willingly resigns as Governor of South Carolina and is immediately succeeded by Henry McMaster her Lieutenant Governor an early vocal pro-Trump supporter. Perfect. You wait until McMaster secures his nomination for re-election (June 12th) and is projected to easily win (which he has), you thank Nikki for her service and send her back home. Check and mate.

    Lest Nikki have any thoughts of rejoining the anti-Trump opposition and re-entering politics anytime soon, per the South Carolina state constitution, McMaster, having served less than 2 years of Haley's remaining 4 year term, is eligible to serve 2 full 4 year terms as Governor himself, meaning a reliable Trump supporter as Governor of South Carolina for almost 10 years. Bonus check and mate.

    Lest you have any illusion if the importance of having a like minded Governor in office, keep in mind that a Governor can direct their Attorney General to sue the Federal Government for Federal overreach, violation of State's Rights (10th Amendment), constitutionality of Federal policies, etc. Such cases almost always make it to the (now strict Constitutionalist) Supreme Court quickly. Bonus, bonus check and mate.

    4D Chess baby.

    As for others like Tom Price, he was great on paper, faithfully executed the President's policies and did a competent job of running the Department of Health and Human Services, but he proved to be a bit shady in his spending of Government money and he created unnecessary scandal after unnecessary scandal. Like him or not, competent or not, with everyone hyper focused on HHS with Trump wanting to repeal Obamacare, he needs someone above reproach who could withstand public scrutiny. Unfortunately, Price was not that guy so, "You're fired." I'm not sure what you're gripe is here. Do you feel DJT should have been clairvoyant or do you feel DJT should keep dishonest people like that, as previous administrations did?

    Then there's folks like Kelly Sadler, Special Assistant to the President (Office of Communications) who was fired for mocking then Senator John McCain in a closed door meeting with 2 dozen staffers. (WTF? How does this fit the narrative of this thread? Holy crap!) Left, right, center, like him, hate him, DJT didn't care, the man had terminal brain cancer and wasn't going to put up with someone who mocked that. "You're fired!" Again, I'm not sure what you're gripe is here either. Again, do you feel DJT should have been clairvoyant or do you feel DJT should keep people like that, as previous administrations did?

    How about Sally Yates, an Obama appointee and holdover who served the Trump administration as Acting Attorney General. She made it 10 days before she was fired for insubordination. Are you saying Trump should have kept an insubordinate employee, as Obama did, just because she was a holdover and Obama appointee? Hell, no. "You're fired."

    Then there's all the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama appointees that are all under investigation for trying to first, throw the election in favor of Hillary, then when that didn't work, stage a soft coup. Of course these are the folks you really wanted to stay in there and you wanted them to succeed, but they didn't so now you just spew crap. Check and mate.

    Which brings me to Jeff Sessions. To keep the press distracted while your 'Law and Order' Attorney General quietly prepares over 40,000 sealed Federal indictments over said election tampering, you keep the press distracted with a mock feud. Using their hatred and vitriol against them so each time the Dems and MSM demonize you for attacking him, they come running to his defense, to bolster his reputation, going on the record to say what a good and honest man he is and what a stellar job he's doing which will make it much harder to go after him as the indictments become unsealed. Check and mate.

    But let's face it, while his mild manner and 'aw shucks' mannerisms were perfect for staying under the radar while the sealed indictments were being prepared, he's not the bulldog needed to unseal them and take the guilty parties to trial. Now that the mid-terms are done and Trump has the solid Senate majority he needs (despite the current Dem attempt to steal the Florida and Arizona seats), Sessions job is done. Sessions resignation also removes Rod Rosenstein, a G.W. Bush appointee and faithful lieutenant of the Deep State from his oversight position in the Mueller investigation. Now maybe the American people can see what they've been wasting our tax money on for 2 years. Check and mate.

    Remember, it's the new firmly Trump majority Senate that will approve the rest of DJT's Executive and Judicial nominations that were being held up the the Dems and the RINOs in the Senate. It is also this new solid Trump majority Senate that will approve the next Attorney General. In the meantime, I'm sure our new Acting Attorney General, Matthew Whitaker, who previously wrote Op-ed pieces in support of re-opening the Hillary server and campaign investigations, and supports a full investigation into the Clinton Foundation, will serve the U.S. well. Whitaker just looks like the enforcer we need doesn't he?
     
  15. Titris Thrawns

    Titris Thrawns Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2017
    That, My friends, is political narrative indoctrination speak.

    I mean, I like the idea that it could be true, but if 4D chess is actually occurring, I doubt any of us could get it, unless we are actually close to the people making the calls.

    So, unless you are close to it @RazorbackPirate , I have to say, It is a good rationalization of events, but is clearly biased. I've heard similar rants from left leaning people. It all 'makes sense', because it follows a logical flow. The problem? Core assumptions at the top of the logical proof.


    The issue I have with it all is it comes off as defensive. To Whom? Ahsay? An obvious troll that can be reported and eventually banned. Thus I assume your target audience is somebody else. How much of it is to convince oneself that everything is going 'according to plan' or how much of it is to attempt to mine new converts?

    After all, that'd be part of 4D chess... right? Who is the pawn? Who is the Rook? Who is the Queen & King? Who is moving the pieces?

    Personally, I think a bit of humility would go a long way.
     
  16. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

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    May 8, 2015
    Ha ha ha ha! That's hilarious! What an active imagination you have. You should write spy novels.
     
  17. RazorbackPirate

    RazorbackPirate Well-Known Member

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    May 29, 2018
    My apologies if it sounds like indoctrination speak, but it is the narrative that fits a President who has said he wants to get us out of all of our unnecessary wars, drain the swamp, and shrink an out of control, yugely;) indebted Federal Government, secure our borders, stop the drug cartels, end human trafficking, etc. When you look at what's actually being done, executive orders being signed, etc. It's the narrative that makes sense.
    I'll easily admit my bias that like you, I hope and pray this is what's actually happening. I'll also easily admit that it's my own conjecture based on my own research and analysis. Only time will tell if it's true or false.
    No, I'm not close to the situation. I wish I was, but sadly I'm not.

    Agreed, there are core assumptions (and we all know what that means), but there's core assumptions on both sides aren't there? Personally I think the logic flows a whole lot better given the facts, than the Russian collusion rantings of the left. Yes, I believe there was a candidate that colluded to steal the election and I don't think it's Trump. But who knows? Only time will tell.
    I have nothing to defend. As you say, I'm not close to the situation and have nothing more than hope, like you. As far as Ashay, that's just casting pearls before swine. No point in that. She's not even worth trolling back.
    How about the 80/20 rule? I'll let you decide which percentage, I'm ascribing to my uncertainty. As far as mine new converts, so? Isn't that what the free exchange of ideas is about?
    Indeed it would, but that's all well above my pay grade, I can assure you. Especially since I have no pay grade.;) I would expect however, that information would be kept compartmentalized and only a handful of people know the entirety of the plan. So indeed, all your questions are valid. As you are clearly a truth seeker yourself, I encourage you to continue to research and answer them for yourself to your own satisfaction.
    As would civility from all sides. Wouldn't you agree?:)
    Maybe I should. However as they say, truth is often stranger than fiction.
     
  18. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

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    You should tell this to that guy in the White House. He's supposed to lead in such things. Another way he falls well short of the standards set by almost all his predecessors.
     
  19. RazorbackPirate

    RazorbackPirate Well-Known Member

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    No argument there. I'm not sure how I feel about our President serving the role of master troll. However, it has been a pretty reliable way to change the narrative and/or distract from something else that might otherwise be news worthy. The MSM spends their time talking about what Trump said, not about what he did and that suits me just fine. Meanwhile, he's been systematically working to undo the damage done by the previous 4 administrations and that suits me just fine too.
     
  20. ahsay

    ahsay Active Member

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    Jan 17, 2015
    Yeah, hiring the incompetent and criminals is a part of some trumpfkop master plan. The three suns in that purple ocean, two moon, pink sky, world of yours must be frying your cranial capacitors. "...Systematically working..." ...yeah right...good one.
     

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