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Maximizing Alcatraz

planetofthehumans2

Well-Known Member
Then there is the case of GBG, where Negotiations can score 2 points while Attacks are worth 1. FoE does a good job of giving both paths a shot. 64/48's with all Negotiation scores much lower than a 64/48 Attack in GE.
Negging costs both time and goods to do though. I only neg when my attrition is too high to fight and its not a critical sector, or for my SC. Like the attrition doesn't affect the difficulty like it does for fighting, just the cost. There's a real limit on how far you can fight, but the only limit on negging is how many goods you have to waste.

Usually negging costs too much time to be effective though, when you're against top level guilds that hate your guts and constantly HQ you....
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
My new Alcatraz is at lvl 4 and I just moved into the Colonial Era. I have a Rogue camp and a Heavy Knight Stable (LMA)
I admit I DID NOT give my fighting capabilities much thought when I made the Era climb so I need some advice and strategy to maximize the Traz capabilities as I move into the next era.
Whatever you use the most should be the unit you pair with the Traz at the start aside from rogue hideout. Adjust as needed. I prefer Heavy units upto and including Industrial Age
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
Negging costs both time and goods to do though..
Very true. Maybe 2-3 weeks of gathering GBG ammo. But let's not pretend the staggering cost of both time and FP to raise your CdM, AO, CoA, SoZ to a decent level like 50 along with the constant losses you'll have to stomach by always getting lower rewards for as long as you force yourself in this suboptimal playstyle as well as being dependent to Siege Camps to perform, as well as being deadweight to your guild even if you somehow manage to get these levels when these luxurious requirements (Siege Camps, Attack bldgs) aren't met, as an F2P player in the lower ages don't exist.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
I don't understand that position at all. You're saying attack GBs are "dead weight" because of the amount of troops lost. But initially you only need Lvl 10 GBs and to be cycling out wounded troops with fresh ones so the wounded can heal back up. You can gradually raise your GBs as you get more FPs but you don't need them at lvl 50 to be effective. It also doesn't prevent the player from switching between fighting and negotiating

Meanwhile for negotiating you just said you take more then a GBG season to get the goods necessary. If troops are "dead weight" what are you doing for that half season you don't have the goods for every GBG season? There are F2P players in the lower ages who outperform others. You don't need money to do that. Just an understanding of game mechanics, applying that knowledge and time.
 
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Plain Red Justice

Active Member
I don't understand that position at all. You're saying attack GBs are "dead weight" because of the amount of troops lost.
I didn't say this. I am talking both in the perspective of personal rewards (which a newbie with little to no FP could use in his way to rushing his Arc to 80) and the total amount of advances one could dish out with minimal effort and almost zero city requirements
what are you doing for that half season you don't have the goods for every GBG season
You're misunderstanding something here, but okay it's understandable that you don't know this because you haven't tried it before. Once you have your goods/trades setup for 2-3 weeks as a very fresh player you would never run out of goods for the subsequent seasons even if you're an everyday attrition 40 player. As an added bonus did I mention anything about a Chateau here? Nah, in fact you don't need a single level of it at all to drown in GBG ammo
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
You haven’t said what trades you’re referring to. If you’re talking about advanced goods traded down I’ve been there, done that. You’d have to either keep doing it or have a lot of goods buildings if you’re doing a lot of negotiating and only so many players that’ll sustain as it’s not generating goods, simply moving them around. But certainly worth it to those that have the network available to pull it off. If you mean something else you’ll have to elaborate.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
You haven’t said what trades you’re referring to. If you’re talking about advanced goods traded down I’ve been there, done that. You’d have to either keep doing it or have a lot of goods buildings if you’re doing a lot of negotiating and only so many players that’ll sustain as it’s not generating goods, simply moving them around.
That's right. But don't belittle yourself too much. In fact, your trades aren't moving because you've simply fallen for that fair trading meme ratio that's directly translated into "May I steal your goods". That's it. The obvious solution for that is to not be greedy in the first place for people to entertain you. If you want to go further, skip an era. If you want to be more generous, skip 2 eras and so on and so forth. Or do you think you won't profit at all by taking these trivial losses?
 
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WinnerGR

Well-Known Member
I am really coming back to the title of this thread now ; there is no thing as maxing out a GB , you can max out event buildings and almost everything else but not GBs . There is a point where it becomes to costly to be worth it . I am noooooo where near that point but that is a fact however if you have all GBs to the top levell where it stopos being worth it for you then you may want to go back and levell them some more.

------

And then slightly off-topic :

Who said my trades aren’t going anywhere? I’ve never had a trading problem.
Really ?
Until I joined Liberate here a few months back I massive trading problems.
Are you sure that when you first started you didn't have trading problems ?
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
I’m the type of player that always over-produces resources no matter what the game is. I’m sure I never had a trading problem. I looked ahead on the techtree. I calculated my needs. I plundered my neighbours in Bronze Age (that was a thing back then). I had trades up. Never had a goods problem.

I am really coming back to the title of this thread now ; there is no thing as maxing out a GB , you can max out event buildings and almost everything else but not GBs .
I think they meant maximise as in optimise the use of it
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
I am really coming back to the title of this thread now ; there is no thing as maxing out a GB , you can max out event buildings and almost everything else but not GBs . There is a point where it becomes to costly to be worth it . I am noooooo where near that point but that is a fact however if you have all GBs to the top levell where it stopos being worth it for you then you may want to go back and levell them some more.

There is a point where it becomes to costly, but there also is a point where you all your GB's on the desired level, so costs doess not matter anymore. You need to spend those fp's anyhow.
 

WinnerGR

Well-Known Member
There is a point where it becomes to costly, but there also is a point where you all your GB's on the desired level, so costs doess not matter anymore. You need to spend those fp's anyhow.
I think that was what I was trying to say ;)
I’m the type of player that always over-produces resources no matter what the game is. I’m sure I never had a trading problem. I looked ahead on the techtree. I calculated my needs. I plundered my neighbours in Bronze Age (that was a thing back then). I had trades up. Never had a goods problem.
Wow you seem like a experinced play since the SA and you said you hated this type of game till you started FoE :cool:
I think they meant maximise as in optimise the use of it
Well 'they' should have said that.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
Who said my trades aren’t going anywhere? I’ve never had a trading problem.
Then this is very strange that you claim you run out of goods in any possible way because I may not be the best trader out there but I really don't run out of it given some preparations. Even with GBG
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
Then this is very strange that you claim you run out of goods in any possible way because I may not be the best trader out there but I really don't run out of it given some preparations. Even with GBG
in GBG, negotiation is limited: even with 0% attrition, you will run out of goods eventually if you keep negotiating.
On the other hand, fighting in GBG is much more sustainable. With 0% attrition, a modest fighting boost, and a good stock of rogues, you can fight as much as you want, without losing much. If you negotiate, you are, by definition, losing stuff.

There are players (yes in low ages) doing thousands of fights every GBG season. Have you ever seen someone do thousands of negotiations in a GBG season? No, because that would cost tens of thousands of goods.
 

WinnerGR

Well-Known Member
in GBG, negotiation is limited: even with 0% attrition, you will run out of goods eventually if you keep negotiating.
On the other hand, fighting in GBG is much more sustainable. With 0% attrition, a modest fighting boost, and a good stock of rogues, you can fight as much as you want, without losing much. If you negotiate, you are, by definition, losing stuff.

There are players (yes in low ages) doing thousands of fights every GBG season. Have you ever seen someone do thousands of negotiations in a GBG season? No, because that would cost tens of thousands of goods.
I have never really though about it like that but your so right :

Negotaiten : Lose good definately
Fight with 10000000000% boost : low % for even HP loss.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
Have you ever seen someone do thousands of negotiations in a GBG season? No, because that would cost tens of thousands of goods.
Me. I almost did a thousand Negs. And I barely even used 400-500 of each goods. If I really cared about staying awake at the guild's peak hours I could do this as well. But what if you're placed in a situation where SCs are simply not an option since your guild is sitting out the season? Kinda like this disaster right here

We're on the 6th day of GBG but my lower age peeps can't perform even within the top 15. There's only higher age peeps within it. Why? Because we're stuck on a situation where spending guild goods on a losing situation aren't viable, and like you, the lot of them were tricked into unironically fighting in the lower ages
 

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Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
Me. I almost did a thousand Negs. And I barely even used 400-500 of each goods. If I really cared about staying awake at the guild's peak hours I could do this as well. But what if you're placed in a situation where SCs are simply not an option since your guild is sitting out the season? Kinda like this disaster right here

We're on the 6th day of GBG but my lower age peeps can't perform even within the top 15. There's only higher age peeps within it. Why? Because we're stuck on a situation where spending guild goods on a losing situation aren't viable, and like you, the lot of them were tricked into unironically fighting in the lower ages
Lol 299 is not "almost 1000" :D:D

I also did hundreds of nego's before I realized how wasteful it is, and worked on my A/D%.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
This is on the current season. I was referring to the last one obviously where we were allowed the luxury of SCs but not every single season is going to be like that. Lower age firepower is what's going to be needed for the autobattlers to even have a fighting chance. But nah dw you won't have to force yourself to understand this since you can't even gather FE/ME/PE goods even if your life depended on it
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
since you can't even gather FE/ME/PE goods even if your life depended on it
why gather FE/ME/PME goods? you don't even understand your own method!
pro tip: it is much more FP efficient to buy the highest age goods, and trade down. (but since you probably suck at trading, I guess that won't work out so well for you.)

(btw, the only reason I ever bought high era goods to trade down for GBG, was to be able to help my guild while i still didn't have great fighting boosts.)
 
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