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Negotiating Nonsense

DesertRat175

New Member
It has happened several different places where "negotiation" is suggested as a means of resolving whatever. Invariably the "negotiation" process involves THROWING AWAY useful game values on a process which has no definitive positive outcome. The multiplicity of "judges" of "adequacy" of the "negotiation" offerings and the number of game values being demanded make it stastically impossible to predict any outcome OTHER THAN THEFT OF GAME VALUES by a random process. The whole "negotiating" nonsense reminds me of the brutally offensive "joker" intruded into the "Story" process in at least one of the cities where I've chosen to play. There was never any positive outcome for doing any of the absurd things that the "joker" demanded that a player do.
In the case of the Feudal Japan offshoot from the primary game, this negotiating nonsense appears to be the primary explanation for the shutdown of access to essential land areas based on a QUICKNESS CRITERIA for finishing the setup of the subset city. It results in a PAY TO PLAY outcome where only by spending purchased DIAMONDS can the player proceed with the game. Even if the negotiating nonsense wasn't entering into the process, that shutoff of playability seems inherently objectionable to this decrepit old man who has long since had to set aside all notions of being able to satisfy QUICKNESS CRITERIA.
Anyway, I have identified two aspects of the Forget of Empires which it is my opinion should be corrected.
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
Wow, some rant.
Actually, negotiations aren't all that bad. Especially once you accept the fact that you aren't going to win them all (unless you are foolish enough to spend diamonds). You don't have to win them all. You end up winning more than you think you will.
Personally, I like to finish level 4 in GE by negotiation, even when I know I can fight through it. I guess I like it because every one of them starts out looking impossible. Then you win that one and move on to the next. But I'm probably in the minority thinking that way.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
There are several ways to win those negotiations they just aren't likely going to be done with just one attempt (meaning you will fail several times until you get lucky and guess correctly). There are ways to play the negotiations to better your chance (you'll need to google it but that will help you improve at that part of the game). Not sure why you think not completing the settlement on time locks you off from essential areas because it doesn't. You just don't get quite as much rewards for finishing the settlement as you would if you finished it faster. The main benefit of the settlements you get whether you finish it within the bonus time or not. You do know that the settlements are only temporary cities and not meant to be kept?

As for that joker you mention, you would of liked the results a few times if you continued to pay him as there were in fact a few outcomes that benefited the player decently. If you look up the quests in wiki land you'll probably get more details.
 

Lady Gato

Well-Known Member
Again, I don't understand an OP's posting. Negotiation is part of the game from the very beginning. The game forces you to do negotiations in one way or the other. If you don't like negotiating and you don't want to learn how to do it effectively, why not just quit playing the game rather than come onto the forum and demanding that it be changed? The same with the settlements -- I don't always finish them on time. I have never finished a Vikings settlement on time. Do I come in here and demand that the game be changed so that I can get all of the goodies despite the fact that I haven't played the game effectively enough? Of course not.

I have never won a Monopoly game either -- everyone seems to eventually beat me. Have I written to Hasbro (I think that's who makes Monopoly) and demanded they change the game? Nope - I just don't play Monopoly.
 

sknahsgnoL nehpetS

Active Member
Wow! The guys who were confused by the word "gigantic" are going to have a heck of a time trying to "negotiate" the OP here.

But seriously, rarely do you "have to" negotiate. It's the same principle as buying Diamonds with real world currency. If you can spare it and deem it worthwhile to you, do it. If it will run you short or the benefit isn't worth it (looking at you, Feudal Japan merchant), don't do it.
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
But seriously, rarely do you "have to" negotiate.
That's mostly, but not 100% true. An SC doesn't mean you "have to" negotiate. But what would be the point if you didn't?
I mostly negotiate because I like doing it. The SC is a fringe benefit.
The only real alternative to negotiation is to click the auto battle button yet again. That gets a bit boring sometimes.
 

DesertRat175

New Member
My key dislike for the "let's pretend this is negotiating" is that it amounts to PAYING BRIBES with absolutely nothing in return from the bribe takers in many if not most attempts. If the facing "negotiator" is unwilling to cooperate, it is entirely inappropriate for the BRIBES to be kept. That is my central opinion and the reason that I'm not willing to play the Negotiating Nonsense. Even in my home state Nevada, however bad the "odds" in fact are, at least the odds are knowable rather than being a matter of paying absurd BRIBES to uncooperative YGBK "negotiators". As for the SHUTDOWN of ability to acquire more space for development which occurred in the Feudal Japan subset, that is just plain unacceptable to me after throwing away vast amounts of time under the misapprehension that I would be allowed to complete something relevant even if it took me a lot longer than the apparent "time limit". So I vacated the SHUTDOWN ATTEMPT and object to having the exclamation point on the useless ship that points at where the Feudal Japan objectionality "use to be". I already have developing versions of the other subsets (Egypt and Vikings) in other cities and it seems pointless to me to duplicate either of those, let alone throw away more time and energy on a certain to be futile Feudal Japan NEGOTIATING NONSENSE. My opinion. Clearly others see it all differently. Thank y'all for *your* opinions.
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
My key dislike for the "let's pretend this is negotiating" is that it amounts to PAYING BRIBES with absolutely nothing in return from the bribe takers in many if not most attempts. If the facing "negotiator" is unwilling to cooperate, it is entirely inappropriate for the BRIBES to be kept...
I'm thinking FOE just may not be the right game for you. Just not a good match. Some players like negotiating. Some don't, but they do it because it's part of the game they have to get through, a bit like aiding everyone.
If FOE is causing you this much angst, then find another game. Elvenar maybe? Or Farmville?
 

CommanderCool1234

Active Member
If the facing "negotiator" is unwilling to cooperate, it is entirely inappropriate for the BRIBES to be kept.
The negotiator is always willing to take something you are just to new and inexperienced to understand negotiations and that is okay. If you are allready doing fuedal japan that means you are in a midle age so since you dont know how negotiate then you cleally rushed the ages like we all did when just starting.
 

ahsay

Active Member
My key dislike for the "let's pretend this is negotiating" is that it amounts to PAYING BRIBES
Then don't pay the "bribes". You don't have to it just takes longer.

with absolutely nothing in return..
That makes no sense at all. If there is "...nothing in return" then paying "bribes" is utterly useless; problem solved.

So I vacated the SHUTDOWN ATTEMPT and object to having the exclamation point on the useless ship that points at where the Feudal Japan objectionality "use to be".
I did the same thing. Nothing happened but not getting that reward but I did get the others. I don't understand the "bitching".
 

Vonderbach

Member
My key dislike for the "let's pretend this is negotiating" is that it amounts to PAYING BRIBES with absolutely nothing in return from the bribe takers in many if not most attempts.
Would you prefer that the game mechanic be called "bribing"? It seems you are hung up on the notion that the game does not honor the nomenclature.
If that's the case, maybe just pretend make-believe that you're a dirty inner-city slumlord paying off officials for favorable treatment. Mr Rogers would be proud.
 

HarryPottah

New Member
Wow! The guys who were confused by the word "gigantic" are going to have a heck of a time trying to "negotiate" the OP here.

But seriously, rarely do you "have to" negotiate. It's the same principle as buying Diamonds with real world currency. If you can spare it and deem it worthwhile to you, do it. If it will run you short or the benefit isn't worth it (looking at you, Feudal Japan merchant), don't do it.
Maybe, but i find that utilizing the Merchant in Feudal actually secures an early completion. But i'm new, so what do i know, lol.
 

Ericness

Active Member
What delightful indignation! 8/10 on the rant but I'm not convinced it's serious. Missed points for not explicitly accusing Inno of stealing or applying real life morality to the city.

Since I didn't see it mentioned, that "JOKER" will eventually provide diamonds if you keep paying the inconsequential amounts requested for the gag prizes. Those are there to scare players away from free diamonds.
 

BigBrian614

Member
It has happened several different places where "negotiation" is suggested as a means of resolving whatever. Invariably the "negotiation" process involves THROWING AWAY useful game values on a process which has no definitive positive outcome. The multiplicity of "judges" of "adequacy" of the "negotiation" offerings and the number of game values being demanded make it statistically impossible to predict any outcome OTHER THAN THEFT OF GAME VALUES by a random process. The whole "negotiating" nonsense reminds me of the brutally offensive "joker" intruded into the "Story" process in at least one of the cities where I've chosen to play. There was never any positive outcome for doing any of the absurd things that the "joker" demanded that a player do.
In the case of the Feudal Japan offshoot from the primary game, this negotiating nonsense appears to be the primary explanation for the shutdown of access to essential land areas based on a QUICKNESS CRITERIA for finishing the setup of the subset city. It results in a PAY TO PLAY outcome where only by spending purchased DIAMONDS can the player proceed with the game. Even if the negotiating nonsense wasn't entering into the process, that shutoff of playability seems inherently objectionable to this decrepit old man who has long since had to set aside all notions of being able to satisfy QUICKNESS CRITERIA.
Anyway, I have identified two aspects of the Forget of Empires which it is my opinion should be corrected.
I agree. I call it the negotiation scam. Inno just wants you to spend the diamonds. 50/50 actually means 97% chance of spending diamonds to complete. I no longer even attempt a 6 good negotiation. I did a study by writing down how many times I get 4/5/6 good negotiations. 6 is the most then 5 then 4. I found that the only pattern is in the how many correct/incorrect/wrong. selection of goods is irrelevant. When it was 50/50 and the choice is a good or coins/supplies. it is always coins/supplies unless you choose coins/supplies then it was the good. So what I learned from all of this is never try a 6 good negotiation and if the choice on the final turn is 50/50, just save your good and give up. I will negotiate in BG until I get a 6 good negotiation and most days that is what comes up first so no negotiation on that day. Also all this refers to negotiating in BG, for some reason it is completely different in GE (plus you can buy an extra turn). If was the same (less the extra turn) it wouldn't appear so shady.
 
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