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Please rework the calculation for ranking

o LJ o

New Member
My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season. However, we are ranked #19? That makes NO SENSE. If GvG is such a dying part of FOE then when will this change? What, besides GvG can change this?
 

Dominator - X

Active Member
My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season. However, we are ranked #19? That makes NO SENSE. If GvG is such a dying part of FOE then when will this change? What, besides GvG can change this?
Guild ranking is based upon Prestige, not level. It seems 18 guilds have/are generating more Prestige than your guild at the end of the day.
 

Robbenn

Member
Why? What is there to gain besides bragging rights?
What else would you like to gain from a rank? It's supposed to be a recognition of your efforts in the game that everyone can see. If you don't see the purpose of rankings and the importance of having it well implemented, I don't think you understand a video game's basic concepts. Otherwise, you wouldn't ask that kind of question.

My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season. However, we are ranked #19? That makes NO SENSE. If GvG is such a dying part of FOE then when will this change? What, besides GvG can change this?
That being said, GVG is still part of the game, whether you like it or not, and the feature does require a lot of coordination and effort that should be recognized as well. Maybe having different rankings for GVG, GBG, GE (we already have the GE trophies for this), and whatever else would be an idea to explore. Or a better balance between all the different aspects of the game, because your guild should be involved in every single one of them and be good at it if you wanna be #1 overall.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
What else would you like to gain from a rank? It's supposed to be a recognition of your efforts in the game that everyone can see. If you don't see the purpose of rankings and the importance of having it well implemented, I don't think you understand a video game's basic concepts. Otherwise, you wouldn't ask that kind of question.
But this isn't a video game. The question is quite valid when it comes to FoE.

You essentially agreed that the only purpose of ranking is bragging rights. The OP's guild has achieved the highest level a guild can reach. She said her guild dominates everything. Those things are evidence of the guild's efforts that everyone can see. If the OP wants to make sure everybody is made aware of it all the time, they could message all the other guilds every week and point it out to them, I guess. But there really is not much point in rankings in this game outside of GBG placement. Because, again, this ain't a video game.

That being said, GVG is still part of the game, whether you like it or not, and the feature does require a lot of coordination and effort that should be recognized as well. Maybe having different rankings for GVG, GBG, GE (we already have the GE trophies for this), and whatever else would be an idea to explore. Or a better balance between all the different aspects of the game, because your guild should be involved in every single one of them and be good at it if you wanna be #1 overall.
That's a conversation that's been had here on the forums, and one that the devs have probably already had: changing guild rankings to balance the points awarded by the different competitions. Nothing wrong with having that conversation again here but don't hold your breath that something will come of it anytime soon.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
What else would you like to gain from a rank? It's supposed to be a recognition of your efforts in the game that everyone can see.
And as we all know, maybe with a few exceptions, it is not reflecting your efforts in the game at all, but mostly your efforts in GvG. Now look at it from the other side. If you do not participate why should you be top rank? Game is more that just GE and GBG.

If you don't see the purpose of rankings and the importance of having it well implemented, I don't think you understand a video game's basic concepts. Otherwise, you wouldn't ask that kind of question.
Ranking has no purpose or importance when ranking does not come with benefits. In that case being # or #19 is not relevant at all. Have no clue what video game's basic concepts have to do with that. This is not a video game.
 

Robbenn

Member
But this isn't a video game.
Elaborate, please.
You essentially agreed that the only purpose of ranking is bragging rights.
I did not. I said it's a recognition of your efforts in the game. Whether you want to use that as a bragging opportunity, it's definitely an option and that's up to you. But I did insinuate that I'm willing to call it that way for clarification purposes, and just making sure we're on the same page.
The OP's guild has achieved the highest level a guild can reach. She said her guild dominates everything. Those things are evidence of the guild's efforts that everyone can see.
The guild level does not reflect the guild's current competitive state. A guild rank does (or at least it should). You can't lose levels.
A higher guild level than everyone else's does not necessarily mean you are the best at every part of the game that adds to your guild level, it can just mean you've been doing it for longer.
Her guild dominates everything except GVG. They shouldn't battle for 1st place when they completely ignore a major competitive part of the game. What rank should the other guilds get when they dominate everything, including GVG?
But there really is not much point in rankings in this game outside of GBG placement.
As long as there are people who care about it as it is, that's not true.
That's a conversation that's been had here on the forums, and one that the devs have probably already had: changing guild rankings to balance the points awarded by the different competitions. Nothing wrong with having that conversation again here but don't hold your breath that something will come of it anytime soon.
I'm not trying to open up that conversation, I'm just explaining to the OP that her guild needs to be competitive in every single part of the game if she wants to compete for the top spots. At least that's how I think it should work, and I do agree that's not the case currently. But completely dismissing GVG when it comes to rankings is not right either.
And as we all know, maybe with a few exceptions, it is not reflecting your efforts in the game at all, but mostly your efforts in GvG. Now look at it from the other side. If you do not participate why should you be top rank? Game is more that just GE and GBG.
That's one of the points I was trying to make for the OP.
Ranking has no purpose or importance when ranking does not come with benefits.
It may be of no importance to you, but that doesn't make it so for everyone else. You can't tell people what's important in the game for them and what isn't. This is a game that supports multiple playstyles and goals. If ranking is a part of my goal, then it has a purpose. Most games that include some competitive aspect (if not all), have a ranking system. It's important for competitive people to know how they compare with the others and that's enough. It doesn't have to come with any benefits or rewards.
In that case being # or #19 is not relevant at all.
Not relevant to you.
This is not a video game.
You're the second person to make this statement. InnoGames calls FOE a "city building strategy game". Given the medium, the platform, and the way we interact with this game, I don't see why you would argue this point, but please do. I wanna know your reasoning behind this statement.
 
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Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I did not. I said it's a recognition of your efforts in the game.
But it isn't. It does not say a thing about your efforts. It is a GUILD effort at best.

You're the second person to make this statement. InnoGames calls FOE a "city building strategy game". Given the medium, the platform, and the way we interact with this game, I don't see why you would argue this point, but please do. I wanna know your reasoning behind this statement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game
 

Robbenn

Member
But it isn't. It does not say a thing about your efforts. It is a GUILD effort at best.
When I said "your" efforts, I meant the guild's collective effort. We're talking about guild ranking here, not individual player ranking. I thought that was pretty clear, do you really have to nitpick my wording?

You just linked a Wikipedia article with no explanation. Unfortunately, that's not gonna do it, you need to tell me what exactly you see in there that makes FOE not qualify for that definition. I can tell you all the reasons it does qualify if you want me to, but I believe this comment would get unnecessarily long and I really don't think it's needed.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
You just linked a Wikipedia article with no explanation. Unfortunately, that's not gonna do it, you need to tell me what exactly you see in there that makes FOE not qualify for that definition. I can tell you all the reasons it does qualify if you want me to, but I believe this comment would get unnecessarily long and I really don't think it's needed.
You bring up the definition. That makes it up to you to explain why FoE qualifies.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
Elaborate, please.
On why it's not a video game? No pewpew. No levels, no boss fights. No controllers. Need I go on? It takes more than being an electronic game to be a video game, IMO.

This is a side issue, though, because the reason you called this a video game was to tell us all that the rest of us should value guild rankings as much as you do. That's not how this game works, whether or not it's called a video game.

I did not. I said it's a recognition of your efforts in the game.
You agreed there were no game rewards involved. "A recognition of your efforts" that involves no in-game bonuses is what, if not simply bragging rights?

I'm not trying to open up that conversation, I'm just explaining to the OP that her guild needs to be competitive in every single part of the game if she wants to compete for the top spots. At least that's how I think it should work, and I do agree that's not the case currently. But completely dismissing GVG when it comes to rankings is not right either.
Sounds like you're opening up that conversation to me. Which, as I said, is fine.

It may be of no importance to you, but that doesn't make it so for everyone else. You can't tell people what's important in the game for them and what isn't. This is a game that supports multiple playstyles and goals. If ranking is a part of my goal, then it has a purpose. Most games that include some competitive aspect (if not all), have a ranking system. It's important for competitive people to know how they compare with the others and that's enough. It doesn't have to come with any benefits or rewards. [emphasis mine]
So we're back to "bragging rights".

You are correct that this game supports multiple play styles and goals (another factor that distinguishes it from a video game, or at least most video games). But your initital posts implied that this game was to be viewed like every other video game and as such, everyone should care about guild ranking or according to you, we "... don't ... understand a video game's basic concepts." That's not an acknowledgement of different goals and play styles, it's an admonishment that we don't have the same goals you do.

If it's important to you then by all means, have that conversation. For all we know Inno is already working on something along these lines. If not, there's no harm in talking about it as something we want them to do. But let's all, on both sides of this issue, keep in mind that we're all here for different reasons and we get different things out of this game.
 

Robbenn

Member
You bring up the definition. That makes it up to you to explain why FoE qualifies.
If I must.

This is the most basic definition of a video game.
An electronic game in which players control images on a video screen.

FOE is a game (a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other), that runs on an electronic device (PC/mobile), that you can interact with using an input device (mouse/keyboard, or touchscreen) in order to control moving pictures displayed on a video screen (your PC monitor, phone/tablet screen, TV, etc). FOE has all of this. That makes it a video game. You must be under the impression that video games are only those you play on your XBOX/Playstation, or PC games that run as a standalone application (FOE has this too, by the way, you can get it from the Microsoft Store on Windows).
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
If I must.

This is the most basic definition of a video game.
An electronic game in which players control images on a video screen.

FOE is a game (a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other), that runs on an electronic device (PC/mobile), that you can interact with using an input device (mouse/keyboard, or touchscreen) in order to control moving pictures displayed on a video screen (your PC monitor, phone/tablet screen, TV, etc). FOE has all of this. That makes it a video game. You must be under the impression that video games are only those you play on your XBOX/Playstation, or PC games that run as a standalone application (FOE has this too, by the way, you can get it from the Microsoft Store on Windows).
Where are participants in direct opposition to eachother?
 

Dominator - X

Active Member
I disagree that Foe is a video game. IT may get called that, but I would never call Foe a video game. A computer game sort of.. An online game certainly.
The action is way more "Pac Man" like than streaming video like LOL
(I could imagine Foe in full virtual reality action video Then battling woud be glorious fun...) and maybe you could wander the streets of your city as if real....
A computer game that uses a monitor is a video game.

Phew. Glad we got this settled.
 

Robbenn

Member
On why it's not a video game? No pewpew. No levels, no boss fights. No controllers.
It doesn't have to be a shooting game, it doesn't need to have traditional levels, nor boss fights. And you can probably map a controller and use that instead of a keyboard if you REALLY wanted to, for some reason, although again, it's not required for it to be a video game.
It takes more than being an electronic game to be a video game, IMO.
It does, and FOE has that. And this is not a matter of opinion, it either is, or it isn't. If you don't wanna call it a video game, that's fine, but you can't claim that it's not without providing valid arguments.
This is a side issue, though, because the reason you called this a video game was to tell us all that the rest of us should value guild rankings as much as you do. That's not how this game works, whether or not it's called a video game.
Nope, the reason I called it a video game is because I was trying to make the point that every video game where players can compete against each other, should have a way to display how players compare against each other, and it's important for the system to be fair and have a solid logic behind it, and it doesn't need to have rewards attached for it to matter. I never said anyone SHOULD value the rankings, in fact, if you read through what I said, you'll find the exact opposite. But just because there are players who do not care about it, doesn't mean the ranking system doesn't have a place and a purpose. The game has enough competitive players for it to work that way if you want it to. Go on any world or server and try to get #1 in guild rankings, and then tell me how easy it was, and how easy the other guilds let you have it.
A recognition of your efforts" that involves no in-game bonuses is what, if not simply bragging rights?
It doesn't have to be. It can simply be a demonstration of what you are capable of, and a way to compare yourself against the others.

So we're back to "bragging rights".
No, just being able to see how well you perform in relation to others, doesn't mean there has to be any bragging involved.

You are correct that this game supports multiple play styles and goals (another factor that distinguishes it from a video game, or at least most video games).
That's really vague, and not a rule.

But your initital posts implied that this game was to be viewed like every other video game
I didn't say it should be viewed as any other video game, I implied that it should be viewed as a video game, period.

and as such, everyone should care about guild ranking or according to you, we "... don't ... understand a video game's basic concepts." That's not an acknowledgement of different goals and play styles, it's an admonishment that we don't have the same goals you do.
Again, I didn't say everyone should care about the guild ranking, I said it's important for it to be there, because it's important for a video game from a player experience standpoint. Players who don't care how well they perform in a game in relation to others are known as casual players. Nothing wrong with that, but competitive players want a ranking system, therefore, it wouldn't make sense for a game with a competitive side to not have one. Agent327 was trying to make the argument that ranking has no purpose in this game and no one should care about it, which shows a lack of perspective and video game basic knowledge. I said it has a purpose, it should be there, and it should be done right, I didn't say everyone should care about it. It will improve the experience for the players that care about it, and the casuals can ignore it and focus on their own goals. How is that not an acknowledgment of different goals and playstyles?

But let's all, on both sides of this issue, keep in mind that we're all here for different reasons and we get different things out of this game.
I have always been a major supporter of this idea, and I don't think I said anything that implies otherwise. I just want options. It's easier to ignore features in the game that don't interest you than put up with the fact that you don't have what you need.

Where are participants in direct opposition to eachother?
That's from the definition of a game in general. Are you arguing that FOE is not even a game?
But to answer the question, the simple fact that you play the game with other people, and you can interact with them, you can compare against them, means you are already in direct opposition with the other players. You don't play this game alone. You have trackers that are measuring your progress (points, fights, GB levels). You can see and compare which one of you goes faster or higher. But if that explanation doesn't work for you, then there are a lot of parts of the game where you are literally competing against other players, and how well you do, depends on how well or bad the other player (or guild) does. GVG, GBG, GE championships) attacking neighbors (it doesn't have much impact but it's there), the fact that you can interact with other players' GBs, you can make it hard, or you can make it easy for them to keep leveling them. Just because this game doesn't have as much PVP as others, doesn't mean you are not in direct opposition with other players. It's limited, but it's there.