PvP Adjustment Feedback

[DeletedUser]

And I forgot to mention....

Um, how? New players have no idea what it's all about, since you killed BA PvP....
And this will probably result in a mass exodus of complaints "hey fellow players I have been getting plundered every day since I researched this certain tech before I wasn't even getting attacked how is this????"

Event timing aside, this might be the most puzzling thing about the change. We want players to get familiar with the combat system of the game, I think it will work best if we lock them out of it until there are more units and other variables, instead of letting them learn when they just have the basics to contend with. Yeah, good thinking, Inno.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

And now they will have more time, and possibly money, invested.

rmmm right there Inno sucking our diamonds...

Back on track,
The biggest puzzle about the update is not the bad timing, though that was a contender for the title,
no it was not the late announcement, also a close contender....
but the announcement.


Recent Announcment for Dummies, by Lord Muggle
Inno : We want new players to stay longer by not getting plundered, so we will send our CM to talk about how players should get familiar with the fighting aspect of the game, even though we just killed BA PvP which means new players will have no idea what plundering is all about. I think the players will be fooled by that, we should put it in the middle of an event so it will distract them from the true nature of this update, getting more diamonds....

 

[DeletedUser]

Another wrinkle I just discovered, you can't even set a defense until you unlock PvP. Hope everybody remembers that. Oh, wait, nobody from Inno ever tells them about setting a defense, they have to discover it for themselves or have somebody tell them. Which is hard because they don't know to ask.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

Another wrinkle I just discovered, you can't even set a defense until you unlock PvP. Hope everybody remembers that. Oh, wait, nobody from Inno ever tells them about setting a defense, they have to discover it for themselves or have somebody tell them. Which is hard because they don't know to ask.

Problems left, right, center, leftish center, rightish center.... with this new update.... LOL!

 

[DeletedUser27889]

Yes, this game needs to do WAYYYY better at the tutorial. I worry that if there is no tutorial attached to this players will unlock this and have no idea whats coming for them. They might feel lied to or mislead that suddenly they unlock a tech and the next day all their productions are gone. Were going to see people camping in IA now just to hit people the day they unlock this. Hopefully the hood change algorithm takes this into account. This should have been 1 step of a much larger change,
1) Better tutorial in regards to plundering and defense and PVP
2) Protection for new players to aclimate them to the game while they play the tutorial.
3) Either alternatives or auto complete for events/DCs that require battle due to the limited ways a BA player can fight.

I do agree with this change but it alone is not going to fix things. It, like it's seriously messed up method/time of release seems like yet another half thought out idea that while good intentioned ended up creating more problems.

 

[qaccy]

Seems fine to me. The one thing that even I can fault Inno on here is pushing this change out in the middle of an event which requires battling. Not great for new players, though it could be argued that the Black Tower isn't really designed with brand-new (or more accurately, low-age) players in mind anyway.

Besides that, moving forward this is how the game's going to be so future events CAN be planned for accordingly, at least with this change factored in. This is just a one-time thing, similar to the weirdness caused by the availability of the Oracle of Delphi quests when it was first implemented.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

We are introducing this change to make sure players have a chance to get familiar with the combat system of the game before being exposed to them[attacks and plundering].
PvP Adjustments

Thank you, we finally know now that it was about plundering after all. So now we can comment in the same regard. I said on Beta early on regarding this change;

I do wonder what this change is about myself. If this is about plundering it seems they just can't seem to figure out what to do. They tried with the neighborhood merge change to make things "more fair" I guess which while for the most part does away with age disparity actually made plundering more likely because now you don't have any players below you who would be less likely to attack. And of course that also doesn't account for military GB's e.g. an IA player with level 80 SoZ, CoA, CdM etc. And it doesn't account for the 1/7Rogue tactic relative to the city defense AI. Then they introduced City Shield but that's expensive to first set up tavern for a good income to get in the first place and then even more expensive to try to maintain. If they really want players to not be negatively affected by PvP then they should make non PvP servers or an opt out of PvP option and merge PvP with PvP and non PvP with non PvP players.

You see no matter what you do once players "find out" they can get plundered those players who would stop playing because of it are going to stop playing anyway. This little bit of time to "get used" to the game is not going to change that. I mean if your ultimate goal is to get rid of PvP and GvG so you can have nothing but events then please just rip the bandage off instead of giving us the slow boiled frog technique.

 

[DeletedUser31392]

This will echo the rest of the posts here but it’s vital we all push our ideas to them so the get the picture.



This implementation was done in a poor manor. It was released UNANNOUNCED in the MIDDLE of an Event, that as @sloppyjoeslayer pointed out on a different thread, asks for upwards of 10 different Quests that involve fighting in some aspect, or the alternate is to donate goods to a treasury. Both options are locked out for BA players who, like @JCera, have just recently started a BA city a few days older than the event itself. The change makes it impossible to complete now unless he decides to purchase a large number of Diamonds to buy the goods and fps to be able to complete an otherwise not-so-difficult event.

Was this your intention? To block an event out from players unless they spend Diamonds or ruin their own gameplay to get this building? In my opinion this is a rather good building to have so yes players want to finish this event, and now quite a few players here and ones I have talked to in game are locked out or forced to purchase Diamonds to finish. Money grab. Plain and simple.




But let’s get back to the actual change itself... as other here have said this change in NO WAY will help new players understand the combat system as stated in the announcement by @Panacea

What this does is gives players a false sense of security. When they do unlock the tech they will be in a world of hurt, and half will rage quit after possibly spending money on this game. Is this your intention? To rob unsuspecting players on their hard earned dollars? Because that seems a bit selfish and a terrible business model.

If you want loyal players that will continue to pay for your game then you need to get a better think tank to figure out the underlying problems and come up with a much better solution to that problem.

Several players have already stated that simply turning off the PLUNDERING aspect would have been a much better idea. Turning off the PVP aspect limits their ability to understand the combat system at all, and gives no clear indication of how to set up a proper defense (or a defense at all) to help mitigate being plundered.



Turning off PVP was a bad decision. Turning off Plundering would have been a much better system, that when players are attacked they at least can see that in the event history and ask other players what happened, giving them a better chance of getting ready for the Plundering part of the game.


This fixes nothing, but can clearly see your intention here is to get an influx in money from unsuspecting players that would otherwise have not even bothered with this game. Shady, and downright immoral, regardless of your business model is to gain money. It does not create a steady flow of money, just a quick little $10-20 bump from new players that rage quit soon after.

>_<

 

[DeletedUser13838]

The change itself is bizarre, the timing and lack of any forewarning is absolutely moronic. The only negative impact from pvp is plunder. Just restrict that. Instead you are trying to get players more familiar with combat by restricting them from actually participating in it.

 

[qaccy]

@Mek2
I'd counter that a brand-new player is likely not going to have enough knowledge of the game to finish an event as demanding as this one in time anyway. 45 quests in 2 weeks is a pretty tall order when the tasks encompass pretty much every area of the game and you know nothing about it. This thread is turning into yet another edition of 'let's blow this out of proportion to make it sound worse than it actually is'. The valid points here are few and far between, chiefly being that changes like this shouldn't be pushed in the middle of an event that requires battling. That's really the only problem. Most combat in this game is already done outside of a PvP scenario, so delaying its availability is not going to hinder a new player's ability to learn the combat system. Going up against continent map opponents is much more informative than attacking a bunch of players who never took the time to replace the default 2 spearfighters on defense. Wouldn't you agree?

Pushing back PvP (and only PvP) to the late Iron Age doesn't really have as far-reaching implications as some of you want to claim. Remember that it goes both ways - a player without this technology not only cannot be attacked, but also can't attack other players. Players aren't going to be 'slammed' as soon as they unlock this technology because they're still going to be grouped primarily with players who do not have this technology unlocked (until they advance some more, that is). And when they do start getting attacked, how is this any different from a player who's barely finished the actual tutorial and is already getting attacked by other players? Is being attacked while in the Bronze Age somehow more informative than being attacked in the late Iron Age, when you've gathered several weeks' worth (or more) experience with the game? I don't really think so.

 

[DeletedUser31392]

@Mek2
I'd counter that a brand-new player is likely not going to have enough knowledge of the game to finish an event as demanding as this one in time anyway. 45 quests in 2 weeks is a pretty tall order when the tasks encompass pretty much every area of the game and you know nothing about it. This thread is turning into yet another edition of 'let's blow this out of proportion to make it sound worse than it actually is'. The valid points here are few and far between, chiefly being that changes like this shouldn't be pushed in the middle of an event that requires battling. That's really the only problem. Most combat in this game is already done outside of a PvP scenario, so delaying its availability is not going to hinder a new player's ability to learn the combat system. Going up against continent map opponents is much more informative than attacking a bunch of players who never took the time to replace the default 2 spearfighters on defense. Wouldn't you agree?

Pushing back PvP (and only PvP) to the late Iron Age doesn't really have as far-reaching implications as some of you want to claim. Remember that it goes both ways - a player without this technology not only cannot be attacked, but also can't attack other players. Players aren't going to be 'slammed' as soon as they unlock this technology because they're still going to be grouped primarily with players who do not have this technology unlocked (until they advance some more, that is). And when they do start getting attacked, how is this any different from a player who's barely finished the actual tutorial and is already getting attacked by other players? Is being attacked while in the Bronze Age somehow more informative than being attacked in the late Iron Age, when you've gathered several weeks' worth (or more) experience with the game? I don't really think so.

My point about the event was more towards players that have recently started a new World, and are essentially being blocked from completing the Event on that world which locks them out of getting the nice Black Tower Building, the whole reason for wanting to complete the event at all. Now I do understand it is still theoretically possible to finish Quest 42 (5 battles without losing), but it makes it more difficult for these players. Maybe they are not wanting to leave BA just yet, but also wanted to stash this building away for use later on when they have extra space to do so.



And the idea of Pushing the PvP to Iron Age doesn’t sit well, simply for the reason the game itself does no justice on explaining what PvP or Plundering is all about. If a player in BA or early IA and was attacked that would alarm them to raise questions. However if they get plundered constantly along with being attacked they are more likely to just give up and go play a different game instead of digger deeper on the internet or these forums to understand what is happening.


This change is a bandaid that doesn’t address the problem that the game lacks the tutorial to explain what PvP and Plundering is all about. What should have been done was shut off Plundering, or even better for them to take the time to develop an in-game tutorial to explain these features a little better to brand new players, not lock it out entirely.

And if the feature was meant to be implemented for the new world, then it should only have been activated there and left the other worlds as is, and change the code to direct brand new accounts to the brand new world. This would give a better indication to the Devs as to how to handle this problem in other worlds as well.

This is my opinion on the matter. Would others disagree with this?

 

[Freshmeboy]

I think what's being ignored is savvy players with no desire to compete for the worthless pvp towers can play this game to the end immune to attack or plunder by merely going around a few techs....whether they will catch on remains to be seen. I wonder if this feature isn't intended for vets who raced through the tech tree and found themselves raided incessantly and quit the game. This change could thwart the camping strategy of the game as players wouldn't need to camp to build defensive strength nor use space for defensive GBs...INNO gets a player base that rises quickly and spends money on the game and players get a game they needn't play on a timer....

 

[DeletedUser27889]

I think what's being ignored is savvy players with no desire to compete for the worthless pvp towers can play this game to the end immune to attack or plunder by merely going around a few techs..

You can't do that. The way it is set up you could enter into EMA without unlocking it but can only unlock the deadended multi story houses tech. To go any further you need to have military tactics unlocked.



Had what you're saying had been true though it would have massive ramifications for players of all eras.

 

[Freshmeboy]

You are right Manda...my mistake...Too bad, I would like to have seen pvp be optional as it is a broken feature in my opinion...

 

[DeletedUser31592]

I have a city in IA, too. (I had researched 6 IA techs when the Oracle was released, but I didn't get the questline. Which prompted me to begrudgingly open another new city- the one in BA where I'm locked out of everything. And going on a tangent- IA city, 23 days old, 4,952 points. BA city with Oracle- 10 days old- 11,858 points. No GB in IA city- I did not have the BPs prior to the Halloween quest and I'm waiting until after I complete it before I build any. Anyway, the Oracle is a big advantage points-wise for new players. They will quickly outrank people who have player longer.

Back on track- I had to wait for my neighborhood timer to reset in my IA city. I decided to see who I could attack. Playing on mobile, EVERYONE has a sword. But when you click on it, most of them say they haven't unlocked PvP yet.

Status of my neighborhood:
69 people. (Well, I can only give data on 68- one is a friend.)
Unable to participate in PvP- 37 people
Have troops set- 11, including myself. 8 of these 11 are in the top-10. All are in the top-20. (Some did have only two or three non-spearmen troops set, but they did actually set defense troops, so I counted them.)
Battles won: 25, using no boosts of any kind (it was literally 0%)
Battles surrendered: 5- They all had a full army set as defense. One had rogues. Since I was not after actually plundering- more gathering data, I didn't feel the need to waste my own troops, so I surrendered.

(The other two people missing are myself and my friend who is in my neighborhood 37 + 25 + 5 + 2 = 69)

Oh, and I did actually plunder someone. (Just one person out of the 25 I could have.) They had a Zen Zone next to another Japanese building, so it had an FP. It was a "you get Daily Challenges and I don't" penalty.

 

[DeletedUser31903]

If you have any comments on this change, please feel free to put them here in the feedback thread .
Thank you for playing Forge of Empires!


Yours,
The Forge of Empires Team

So, this sucks.

In the MIDDLE of a Halloween event that either requires fighting, or gives you little choice between fighting or giving up scarce resources, you take away the one tool that makes it possible to complete the event without totally throwing off your game - or worse ruining the game and not even completing the event.

According to my calculations, the Event requires players to:

• Scout 2 provinces on 2 separate quests - which usually requires you to have won a number of sectors or followed other in-game quests (that may require battles) in order to open the area for scouting
• Win control of 2 provinces on 2 separate quests - again usually involving battles
• Acquire 8 sectors in 3 different quests

And then, the kicker. About 2/3 of the way through, after you've scouted 2 provinces, gained control of 8 sectors - and probably gotten yourself into a province that is in the next age above you, a completely different quest asks that you defeat 16 units in battle. The coup de grace is in the next to the last quest which asks you to, at that point, win 5 battles in a row without losing between them.

You can 'buy' your way out of some of the quests with donations that wipe out a weeks' worth of earned goods, but for IA players like me, it's hardly worth going on after getting kicked in the tenders like this. I can go play Sudoku and have some instant gratification without all the hassle.

When PVP existed in the lower levels, it gave those of us starting out the opportunity to enjoy the game as much as those who have been playing for years. I got plundered - like everybody else - in the early stages of the game, but when I hit IA, I zoomed through the research so I could build the best defenses for the Age. The tradeoff was that I could afford to pursue special events and participate in GE.

I'm sure this is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY for INNO. Rest assured, if I even bother to continue the game, I won't spend one red cent on it now!

 

[DeletedUser31903]

OH - and RIGHT NOW?

NONE - Zero, Zilch - of my neighbors are eligible for PVP, it seems. And, while the quest allows you to buy your way out with a generous donation to the Guild Treasury, guess what? The Guild Treasury doesn't apparently accept BA goods. Therefore, if you are early in IA, or don't belong to a Guild yet, you're screwed.

 

[DeletedUser]

The valid points here are few and far between,

This is true only if you're referring to your own post. You can't put lipstick on this pig. If you have followed my posts at all, you know that I usually stick up for Inno when people come here with complaints about the game. This is one of the cases where I don't, because this does suck, and it doesn't solve the "problem" they say it's for, and it's reprehensible that they are sticking this kind of stuff into the game without even a how-do-you-do about it. Implementing a major feature like this, and then hours later posting an "oh, by the way" announcement doesn't cut it in my book, and this seems to be the way they're trending. I'm the first to say there's nothing to complain about if there isn't, but here there is definitely something to complain about, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Pushing back PvP (and only PvP) to the late Iron Age doesn't really have as far-reaching implications as some of you want to claim. Remember that it goes both ways - a player without this technology not only cannot be attacked, but also can't attack other players. Players aren't going to be 'slammed' as soon as they unlock this technology because they're still going to be grouped primarily with players who do not have this technology unlocked (until they advance some more, that is). And when they do start getting attacked, how is this any different from a player who's barely finished the actual tutorial and is already getting attacked by other players? Is being attacked while in the Bronze Age somehow more informative than being attacked in the late Iron Age, when you've gathered several weeks' worth (or more) experience with the game? I don't really think so.

I don't know about "far reaching implications" but I do know it simply doesn't follow reason and logic. They say they want to give players time to get used to the combat system before getting plundered. So how does disabling PvP/Plunder achieve the goal of getting used to the combat system? It doesn't, that's nonsensical so we know this is not the purpose. The purpose is they don't want people getting plundered out of the gate, they think that somehow by delaying that a while that somehow that will do what we can only guess is to keep players from leaving the game.

So let's rephrase, will delaying PvP/Plunder prevent players from leaving? I argue no, it won't, as I mentioned previously if players were going to leave because of plunder they're going to leave anyway with this change. Apparently a lot of players come into this game not knowing it's a PvP game and that your stuff can get stolen. They don't provide an upfront tutorial about PvP/Plundering, they should but perhaps they feel that will immediately turn players away so now they're trying this nonsensical solution instead.

The only solution is what I mentioned, give players an option to turn off/on PvP. Have this option defaulted to off. When a player turns it off/on then on the next neighborhood rotation they get mixed into a PvP hood or non PvP hood.

 

[DeletedUser31592]

So, this sucks.

In the MIDDLE of a Halloween event that either requires fighting, or gives you little choice between fighting or giving up scarce resources, you take away the one tool that makes it possible to complete the event without totally throwing off your game - or worse ruining the game and not even completing the event.

According to my calculations, the Event requires players to:

• Scout 2 provinces on 2 separate quests - which usually requires you to have won a number of sectors or followed other in-game quests (that may require battles) in order to open the area for scouting
• Win control of 2 provinces on 2 separate quests - again usually involving battles
• Acquire 8 sectors in 3 different quests

And then, the kicker. About 2/3 of the way through, after you've scouted 2 provinces, gained control of 8 sectors - and probably gotten yourself into a province that is in the next age above you, a completely different quest asks that you defeat 16 units in battle. The coup de grace is in the next to the last quest which asks you to, at that point, win 5 battles in a row without losing between them.

You can 'buy' your way out of some of the quests with donations that wipe out a weeks' worth of earned goods, but for IA players like me, it's hardly worth going on after getting kicked in the tenders like this. I can go play Sudoku and have some instant gratification without all the hassle.

When PVP existed in the lower levels, it gave those of us starting out the opportunity to enjoy the game as much as those who have been playing for years. I got plundered - like everybody else - in the early stages of the game, but when I hit IA, I zoomed through the research so I could build the best defenses for the Age. The tradeoff was that I could afford to pursue special events and participate in GE.

I'm sure this is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY for INNO. Rest assured, if I even bother to continue the game, I won't spend one red cent on it now!

At least you have an option to fight thanks to the GE. Some of us are limited to the C-Map, which the quests pushed us ahead on.