Racing vs. Camping - Through the Ages (Tech/Research Tree)

[DeletedUser26965]

Welcome to another of my default responses to Frequently Mentioned Topics(FMT) I have others here:
[FMT] Frequently Mentioned Topics - Links

First a distinction. By "racer" I mean one who smartly goes through the ages but as quickly as possible, not someone who mindlessly races though without thinking.

Quite often I see this "NEVER RACE THROUGH THE AGES! ARE YOU INSANE! MY GOD MAN!!!"

Okay, perhaps I'm exaggerating there a little bit, okay a lot, but the advice is pervasive, so much so it seems the only way to play this game is to, well, sit camped in an age to eternity, I guess, okay well maybe not that long but, well, how long and what age?

See, okay, I understand the general advice, it's generally given in terms of PvP however in that if you race through the ages you'll find yourself up against other players who will be able to smash through your city and take all your goodies and you'll have no recourse. But, so what? I mean isn't the common advice to avoid getting plundered to collect on time? Well then what matter what age one is in and how fast they got there, collecting on time is the same no matter what age, how would staying behind in an age help to collecting on time? It doesn't.

But let us broaden this and look at other areas of the game as well.

PvP

Racer - Will have lower military GB's so less neighbors to attack/plunder as easily
Camper - Higher military GB's so can attack/plunder more neighbors

So okay the camper will gain more goods, fp's etc. by being able to plunder more players. The racer though may advance in age just after a neighborhood merge and have higher age units to attack with so while he may not be as strong is not completely without the ability to attack/plunder.

Defensively the camper makes more sense though. A camper will have more time to get Watchfires/Ritual Flames and perhaps defensive GB's and level them, the effect obviously being less successful attacks on them. However, if one plays in a way where plundering is essentially rendered useless, such as with a recurring quest city, or if one handles the risk well enough, then the racer could care less about his city being breached.

GvG

Racer - Will have units/goods from more ages to GvG with
Camper - Only units from that age and below for god knows how long

The racer here blows the camper away hands down. Take a guildmate sitting in IA for a year versus a guildmate who started at the same time who is now in OF, the OF guy is much more valuable because he can fight and make goods for every age whereas the other guy can only do IA GvG which, like, nobody does.

However, the camper will be stronger and be able to make more units and could be of more value, if he ever moves up that is

GE

Racer - Will struggle to fight GE
Camper - Can fight GE like a champ

Yes, the camper wins here, the lower the age the better for GE because one can fight it easier and even more easier the higher the military GB's are. The effect being of course the more goodies you get from GE. However, negotiation is always the same amount so as long as the racer plans ahead a bit to make sure he can negotiate the next age he should be okay and if not well it's not the end of the world.

Treasury Goods

Racer - Can make many goods
Camper - Can only make goods in that age on down

This one really relates to GvG but also GE costs as well and guildmate needs for trade. Take the same situation described above, two IA players one races, the other camps. The racer becomes more valuable as he can provide more age goods as he advance whereas the IA camper can only provide IA and BA goods. That being said the camper will be of more value as his guild goods GB's will be provide more goods, if he ever moves up that is

City

Racer - Space, Space, Space
Camper - No Space, No Space, No Space

I'm fairly certain all the complaints and comments for more expansions come from campers. But seriously the advantage here is obvious, the faster one advances the faster more expansions are available.

Events/Daily Challenges

Racer - win
Camper - lose

I haven't really done Daily Challenges too much but I've read enough about them and done enough on Beta to see they pose pretty much the same issues as Events. If the goal is to do events I think the winner here is the racer because he does not worry about advancing so has no issues with research and map type quests. The camper does not want to advance so at some point he will be met with a decision to forego the event to continue camping or vice versa. The racer again, with the more expansions available, becomes more flexible in order to meet quest demands more easily.

Recurring Quest Cities

Racer - lose
Camper - win

This is heavily dependant on one simple strategy; get Château Frontenac as quickly as possible, leveling it to be able to do an infinite amount of Unbirthday Quests mainly in order to get a gazillion forgepoint packs. Great but boring. Of course in the meantime a year later the racer has gone on to do a ton of fighting, trading, etc. in all kinds of different ages experiencing the game in many ways while the camper click, click, clicks his days away in a sea of recurring quests.

That being said there is one aspect to recurring quests the racer can get and the camper realistically can't. A third recurring questgiver. This requires finishing the Story line which essentially means being at the end of the map and tech. Plus in OF you get to use Blacksmiths, how cool is that!

Conclusion

I think I've covered quite a bit here. In the end it's your game and you should play any way that you like. Though I play a bit at the campers expense I don't mean to besmirch them or the reasoning in any way. In the end there are advantages and disadvantages to both and really it's up to you to decide what will affect you negatively or not by racing or camping though the ages. Hopefully whatever you do you're having some good times doing it.

 

[DeletedUser31592]

So, to summarize- if you like to fight, racing is for you. If you do not like to fight, but prefer the building aspect of the game, camping is for you.

I raced the beginning. Found it better for my game not to. I do not participate in PvP or GvG. I don't sit in an age for years (or eternity), but for a few months. I'm in PME and this is probably the longest I've camped. I went through ME too fast and regret it. I hadn't fully thought through how refined goods changed the game. Had I realized it, I would have stayed in ME several weeks longer. The consequence is parking in PME for a while. I've thought about intentionally moving on. I'm in a good enough spot that I could. But I only have 5 techs left (will have 4 after Halloween), so I'm going to wait it out. With the Rosa Parks HQL coming up and the Winter Event, that will take care of a couple more.

 

[Algona]

SJS, Is it appropriate or acceptable to question and or disagree with statements in your default response?

 

[DeletedUser]

SJS, Is it appropriate or acceptable to question and or disagree with statements in your default response?

Same question, because the part about Treasury goods seems backwards from my experience.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

SJS, Is it appropriate or acceptable to question and or disagree with statements in your default response?

Same question, because the part about Treasury goods seems backwards from my experience.

Certainly, discuss if you like.

 

[Algona]

A general question: How skilled are the players you're talking about?

I'm pretty sure that good knowledgeable players who might fall under either archetype will circumvent the basic problems of that archetype. Campers will hold back Techs and Province sand acquire lots of Medals Expansions, racers will procure and level needed GBs and stockpile critical Goods.

But I'm not sure your analysis takes that into account.

A specific question: How does a racer without well leveled combat GBs or Obs/Atom/Arc help in high Era GvG?

 

[Freshmeboy]

Thanks for another FMT, SJS, and while I won't argue the merits or detriments for either strategy, I will say that this type of information needs to be in the hands of the newest players before they get past IA..... I was fortunate in making a decision to visit these forums before I started and gather a feel for the game before committing. I try to steer people to these forums as often as I can when they ask questions but I rarely see them........ Perhaps creating (and I don't want you to feel compelled to do this) a guide for beginners would help, one that was written and edited by the players much like the Wiki but available in the guides section. I could easily say "There is a whole primer on that subject in the forum under guides'" There are guides there now but they are more of a'how-to' rather than a 'here's-why'......

 

[DeletedUser25166]

Disagree. You said camper has no space or higher age troops, yet camping in CE I have TE,FE,AE troops and expansions.
I can fight GvG better than age racers, I get Goods plundering giving me more room for fighting aspects.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

Good post. I'm a hardcore camper and I agree with just about everything you've said, with some minor exceptions:

Treasury Goods

Racer - Can make many goods
Camper - Can only make goods in that age on down

Having DT makes this simply not true, also having a lot of FP I can buy whatever I want to speed up the process.
Current snapshot of my inventory in IA. I'm not swimming in higher age goods but I trade them down, have donated to treasury and traded them with guildmates who had an actual need for them.

City

Racer - Space, Space, Space
Camper - No Space, No Space, No Space

True to a point. With arc I'm at a way higher medal expansion than I was without it but also having access to inno and clearing out all of my houses bought me much more room than a racer would get. True, I cannot get the expansions on the tech tree above me yet or the Cmap or even diamond expansions beyond my 2 but with new medal expansions being added in for each new era (or era stage as they are doing now) I know even if I stayed here forever I would eventually have more room.

Recurring Quest Cities

Racer - lose
Camper - win

This is heavily dependant on one simple strategy; get Château Frontenac as quickly as possible, leveling it to be able to do an infinite amount of Unbirthday Quests mainly in order to get a gazillion forgepoint packs. Great but boring. Of course in the meantime a year later the racer has gone on to do a ton of fighting, trading, etc. in all kinds of different ages experiencing the game in many ways while the camper click, click, clicks his days away in a sea of recurring quests.

Agree with you here but I think the main advantage in staying for RQs is because the requirements only get harder as you era up. The amount of coins you must collect or FP you spend only increase in the eras while the rewards stay the same apart from medal amounts. For people doing the era specific supply RQs they must delete everything as they become worthless when one changes era.

I keep meaning to start a city and race just to see what it's like but each time I've started other worlds, 1 other than my main and again on beta, I keep falling into camping. It seems so unnatural to the game to race through it but I think I should on one of them just to see what it's like.

 

[DeletedUser27040]

I’ve followed a similar strategy to JCera: loitering in an era only long enough to prep for the next one. I usually target between 750-1500 current era goods and at least 100 of each for the next era before moving on. It’s worked out well for me because I’ve been able to level up fairly evenly. Some GBs are a little lower than I like, but I’ll get to them in a later era.

Several of my neighbors are racers and it just seems like a bad idea to me. They have a PME TH with Colonial and Industrial Age houses with a smattering of PE and ME buildings thrown in. It just seems haphazard, especially when they are almost constantly in need of goods to research.

The campers are much better equipped, but that would be insanely boring to me.

Just my observations... play your way, it is supposed to be a game after all.

Edit: this strategy took me from BA to ME w/in a year with 12 GBs (most were lvl 4/5 with a few 8s). I’ve since tacked on 2 more GBs and bumped 4 to lvl 10, but still much work to do.

 

[Jools1956]

I am a camping convert in HMA due to much good advice here. Plus trying to keep my city “era pure”. One more subtle component I help guide me on moving to next level. GB’s. As important as continent map. Seems the goods needed to produce any GB are specific to an era. Camping allows me to complete those GB’s I chose within that goods requirement before moving on. IMO.

 

[DeletedUser27184]

Events/Daily Challenges

Racer - win
Camper - lose

I haven't really done Daily Challenges too much but I've read enough about them and done enough on Beta to see they pose pretty much the same issues as Events. If the goal is to do events I think the winner here is the racer because he does not worry about advancing so has no issues with research and map type quests. The camper does not want to advance so at some point he will be met with a decision to forego the event to continue camping or vice versa. The racer again, with the more expansions available, becomes more flexible in order to meet quest demands more easily.

Some quests are easier with the camper. A HQS city will do all the Production Quests much easier then a Racer for example.
Seeing the list of quests (http://forgeofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Daily_Challenges) I find that most of them are easier for a camper who have all the needed building around. All the GE quests are so easy for a camper who usually farm at least GE3. And I didn't find a quests that demand a technology advance. That would have been a serious problem for a camper. So I would say the Camper wins here.