Slavery

[DeletedUser29726]

if you don't want to read them at all, and my expectations differ from yours, why do you care that I care? I do want to read the quests, and their content matters to me. I'm not trying to convince you that your standards are sub-par. So why do you care about my standards at all? If doesn't have To be a dissertation to be more accurate or sensitive, and I know that from liver experience since I've written two dissertations and have two doctorates. One sentence of clarity would have been enough.

But you're missing that your advisor is speaking to you as a character from that time, not from ours. It may even be an intended experience that you're disgusted by some of what you read and use that to inform your decisions.

 

[barra370804]

I asked for a more comprehensive view, not for blinders. That view could simply come from another "character" who offers up a counterview in the form of another one-liner.

Sounds fine to me, it would satisfy people such as you, and most other people wouldn't notice it. A win-win I suppose. But don't get your hopes up, it won't be added. Inno has moved on from that part of the game.

I'm going to bed now, I'll continue this tomorrow.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Why do you care about your standards so much that you feel like defending them against a non-existent threat?

this is where we differ - I don't consider the threat non-existent, and the fact that you do tells me enough about how different our lives are. Either way, I find it hypocritical for someone to say this isn't worthy of discussion and then continue the discussion. I'm not being hypocritical. I expressed a priority and am speaking to it.

 

[barra370804]

why not acknowledge that there were "inferiorities" on both sides which out both at disadvantages?

Because you weren't on the team that wrote the quest.

 

[barra370804]

I expressed a priority and am speaking to it.

Your priority, not inno's.
Good night.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Sounds fine to me, it would satisfy people such as you, and most other people wouldn't notice it. A win-win I suppose. But don't get your hopes up, it won't be added. Inno has moved on from that part of the game.

I'm going to bed now, I'll continue this tomorrow.

Since it would satisfy people like me (a group I'm happy to be a part of) and others wouldn't notice or care, I also think it's an easy win-win solution.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Because you weren't on the team that wrote the quest.

I think I get why that would be your response, but I'd be disappointed if that were Inno 's response. It's a copout.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Since it would satisfy people like me (a group I'm happy to be a part of) and others wouldn't notice or care, I also think it's an easy win-win solution.

Have you continued the story? Say after declaring war on the south? There are two leaders on that continent and I think the north's leader might provide some of the 'other viewpoint' you seek.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Your priority, not inno's.
Good night.

I understand that. I never misrepresented myself to be speaking for anybody other than myself, and since this is a forum for self-expression and everyone who has posted to the thread has written about what's important to them, it looks like I've come to the right place to write about what's important to me - regardless of where my priority may stand on Inno 's to-do list.

good night

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Have you continued the story? Say after declaring war on the south? There are two leaders on that continent and I think the north's leader might provide some of the 'other viewpoint' you seek.

No, I haven't continued yet. I posted my comment here in the hopes of getting that type of feedback. Sadly, I was met with insults, sarcasm, and condescension (for the most part) instead

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

No, I haven't continued yet. I posted my comment here in the hopes of getting that type of feedback. Sadly, I was met with insults, sarcasm, and condescension (for the most part) instead

Have you continued the story? Say after declaring war on the south? There are two leaders on that continent and I think the north's leader might provide some of the 'other viewpoint' you seek.

I forgot to say thank you for letting me know this. Thank you.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

But you're missing that your advisor is speaking to you as a character from that time, not from ours. It may even be an intended experience that you're disgusted by some of what you read and use that to inform your decisions.

Barra reminded me of that as well, which was helpful, so thank you for that. I am relatively new to the game, but what I remember from earlier quests was that the leader had multiple advisors with sometimes varying perspectives which sometimes provided more information and considerations. I would have appreciated that here.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can see how referencing slavery as a "necessity" without rebuttal, even in an historical context, would be offensive. I don't have a problem with persons wanting even unintentionally offensive material changed, or at the very least put into proper context. In this case I feel that making it obvious that this was an incorrect and highly biased view of slavery's role in the South's economy would be the proper change to make.

Personally, I haven't read any of the story lines accompanying quests since my first few days of playing 5 years ago. However, I do feel that even when dealing with historical topics, the proper perspective should be reflected.

The other thing to keep in mind when reading them, however, is that the people writing them are probably German, or at least European, and might not understand the deep emotions in the US regarding slavery and the Civil War era.

 

[Super Catanian]

#DebateHallInTheForgeHall

 

[Flavius Belisarius]

What Quest are you talking about? Dee's Destiny?

"Your Grace! General Dee's ambassador told us about the independent South. The industry is not as advanced as in the North, and the high tariffs are deadly for its economy. They rely heavily on slave labor - but it is necessary to keep their economy running. "

If that is not it could you quote the Quest?

If that is it, what is it you find offensive about that?

And the requested action by the quest is to fight it.
What is wrong with that?

 

[Graviton]

If you don't want to read them at all, and my expectations differ from yours, why do you care that I care?

Because somebody started this thread, specifically to tell us all that he/she cared. Typically when one starts a forum thread, that means one is inviting the opinions of others. When one posts on a forum thread that is intended to solicit opinions, one is inviting replies to one's opinion. That's how this whole thing works.

If doesn't have to be a dissertation to be more accurate or sensitive

It would have to be much longer than it is, and being accurate or sensitive is not its purpose. Again: your expectations are wildly out of proportion to the context.

, and I know that from lived experience since I've written two dissertations and have two doctorates.

Well, smell you.

 

[Emberguard]

I find it offensive because not only is that not true, to say so suggests that slavery was/is justifiable

Every story written has the dialog based on what the character within the story would say, not what the authors opinion is.

If the character believes that keeping slaves ensures their people remains out of poverty by using those slaves to increase wealth for the slave owners, then that would be why they're saying it's "necessary". Just because something is a lie doesn't mean it's something the character would avoid saying. They're not going to start being a martin luther king without also establishing a motive for such a change if the character initially thinks slaves are the answer to all their problems.

You actually see shades of this in todays economy with the big companies that underpay workers. It's also not uncommon for workers to be cheated out of wages. It's almost always justified by the guilty party with something about economy.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Because somebody started this thread, specifically to tell us all that he/she cared. Typically when one starts a forum thread, that means one is inviting the opinions of others. When one posts on a forum thread that is intended to solicit opinions, one is inviting replies to one's opinion. That's how this whole thing works.



It would have to be much longer than it is, and being accurate or sensitive is not its purpose. Again: your expectations are wildly out of proportion to the context.



Well, smell you.

inviting replies to one's is one thing, but that's not what a lot of the posts included. They attacked him personally and even did the opposite of encouraging the discussion that you're alluding to as a part of the process, which isn't the purpose of the forum (based on your own definition) and is not what he invited any of you to do; nor is that invitation implicit within the act of starting a thread.

 

[Graviton]

inviting replies to one's is one thing, but that's not what a lot of the posts included. They attacked him personally and even did the opposite of encouraging the discussion that you're alluding to as a part of the process, which isn't the purpose of the forum (based on your own definition) and is not what he invited any of you to do; nor is that invitation implicit within the act of starting a thread.

You don't get to control what other people say. You post on a public forum, you're inviting opinions and they aren't all going to be sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Chapparita de la Nariz]

Because somebody started this thread, specifically to tell us all that he/she cared. Typically when one starts a forum thread, that means one is inviting the opinions of others. When one posts on a forum thread that is intended to solicit opinions, one is inviting replies to one's opinion. That's how this whole thing works.



It would have to be much longer than it is, and being accurate or sensitive is not its purpose. Again: your expectations are wildly out of proportion to the context.



Well, smell you.

you have your expectations and I have mine. I don't think one character to offer a rebuttal, especially since I've seen it done in other quests where the advisors disagree, is asking too much. But it's fine to disagree with that suggestion.