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[Guide] Standard Orientation

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
Why do you need directions in anybodies city...? Why does anyone...? Because you want them to polish a particular out of date deco...? That's what landmarks like GBs, town halls and event buildings are for...I see no reason to adopt some orientation standard across the board...it's a complete non-issue. In all my time on the forums and in gameplay, never have I heard a player complain about being unable to find an item in another's city.
 

DeletedUser31308

Well OP, apparently I'm the only one in this thread that talks to players about their cities often enough that I have run into this problem. Clear communication requires consistent frameworks, which we do not have right now. I find myself using the literal "topleft/topright/..." of the screen but it always feels clunky and I wish I could say it in a clear easy way.
 

DeletedUser

The stupid thing is that you don't have to go to the Post Office. A Post Office employee comes to your home (or very near it in the case of NDCBUs) to deliver and pick up mail. You can go online to order stamps and such, then have them delivered. You can even have them bring out your held mail after you get back from vacation. And if you desperately need to find the Post Office, just wait until that letter carrier comes around, then follow him back there. Just be aware that you might end up with Postal Inspectors surrounding your car in that case. :p

(Interesting trivia fact: In the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". That 'posse' following them relentlessly? You know, the ones where Butch or Sundance wonders, "Who are these guys?" Postal Inspectors. Because they had robbed the mails.)
 

DeletedUser34548

Did someone paint LSD on my keyboard?

Perhaps you should reconsider your drug intake. I am not a doctor.

You are being very rude. Why? You shame only yourself. I will not be silent because you shout. Nor will I return your discourtesy.

I don't demand anyone do anything. It is people like you who have rules for everyone else. You do not live for me, I do not live for you.

When one has survived for years in competition, one tends to inflate one's own merit. I suggest some perspective may be useful.

Forgive me if I fail to please you. You may omit me from your reading list and I shall not take offense.
 

DeletedUser34548

Well OP, apparently I'm the only one in this thread that talks to players about their cities often enough that I have run into this problem. Clear communication requires consistent frameworks...

Indeed. I looked over many posts talking about road layout before optimizing mine... a continuous process, of course. I found them hard reading due to lack of clear agreement on terms. I posted once or twice, trying to be explicit without illustration, before seeing the foolishness of the attempt.

The watershed came with a detailed analysis of buildings in general, showing more were wider (E-W) than tall (N-S). The author went on to draw important conclusions, all marred by the cloud on orientation.

I will watch for the your next relevant essay and anticipate the pleasure of understanding your intent. Thank you!
 

DeletedUser34548

... never have I heard a player complain about being unable to find an item in another's city.

I cannot immediately think of such a need; most important buildings are unique to any given player's city. This tool has a very narrow range of use and does not cover such a case.

In the figure I show, there are important distinctions among N, E, S, W. That is because the game makes asymmetric offers to the player. Many more expansions are available to the W and S. The Tavern is N. Prizes appear in several places; it's interesting to ask if they are more often found on the water to the E or on the beach W.

Because some GBs are tall and our eye is fixed looking NE, there is some reason to place them along the N and E edges, so nothing small but important is covered.

We might like to ask whether the city should grow nearly square, or in a rectangle longer in some direction. I cannot guarantee you will understand that I think high means N-S if I don't say so. After all, when you see a building in real life, you probably think its width lies along the street it fronts, its height is to the sky, and the third dimension is depth.

The reason I chose to illustrate and promote this particular orientation is that it has been used by many previous posters, implicitly. This is no innovation of mine. I think the reason Standard Orientation dominates forum discussion is that most buildings are drawn facing S; that is, they appear most natural when built on the N side of an E-W road, with their doors facing the street.

Why don't you try it for yourself and see how it works?
 

DeletedUser

I think the reason Standard Orientation dominates forum discussion
That's in interesting statement, because I have been an avid reader of these Forums for over a year and this is the first and only discussion of "Standard Orientation" that I have seen. Unless you just mean it dominates this discussion. But then, it is the thread topic, so...
 

DeletedUser31308

That's in interesting statement, because I have been an avid reader of these Forums for over a year and this is the first and only discussion of "Standard Orientation" that I have seen. Unless you just mean it dominates this discussion. But then, it is the thread topic, so...
I have definitely read threads using the phrasing "North/South/East/West" and descriptions of building a city "wide" for certain reasons or "long" for other reasons (ex: It is optimal to expand your city North/South first if looping alchemists since their shorter side is in that direction so you use less roads when stacking in that direction). When reading those posts, I was always confused with what they meant by north/south or tall/wide since there was no reference anywhere to which direction we've defined as "North" or "up". My example is an exception to the ambiguity since I made it clear I that the direction I referred to is the same as the short side of an Alchemists, but most post authors aren't nearly so clear.The concept of "Standard Orientation" isn't brought up consistently by name, but the need for one is clear in many threads where there is ambiguity due to the lack of a standard.
 

spnnr

Well-Known Member
Firstly I am a a bit flummoxed why so many threads are bogged down now with debates that stem from disagreements about an idea and then start to straddle the personalities of the individuals involve.

As for the OP-I admire your desire of having easier referencing to buildings in a player city , but I am not sure your proposal is a necessity as most people just use a building eg. next to the Traz or or the Tavern . Your analogy with regards to the Post office scenario does not assume you have the isometric view of the city such as what we have ingame.

Most games that use coordinates/map references consist of having interaction with neighbors on a terrain not from a social bar as we have here.This current system is sufficient IMO as most of the action takes place within the confines of your city limits.
 

DeletedUser32389

The game's standard orientation is already determined, it just isn't marked very well.
Gate statue WEST:
latest


Gate Statue EAST:
latest


This puts North in the upper left hand side, and means buildings are read : East to West X North to South (ie 4x5)
 

DeletedUser32328

I disagree. With standard orientation, you would expect North to be up top. Like on 99% of maps. Why would you introduce this 45 degrees rotation?
 

DeletedUser34548

Firstly I am a a bit flummoxed why so many threads are bogged down now with debates that stem from disagreements about an idea and then start to straddle the personalities of the individuals [involved].

"Small minds, small talk."

I am not sure your proposal is a necessity...

It is neither proposal nor necessity. It is a description of the prevalent convention. As such, it may be used by those who find a use for it, ignored by those who do not, and mocked by those who fail to look.

Orientation has little to do with actual play. It is useful when discussing or thinking about play.

Your analogy with regards to the Post office scenario...

Sorry, neither analogy nor scenario but an exercise in logical thinking. It has nothing to do with FoE, which contains no Post Office. I ask you to imagine you and I are in your hometown, which contains places such as post offices, police stations, fire houses, and hospitals. Assume we are on the corner near your home and tell me how to walk or drive to the destination of choice. (I did not imagine confusion involving a post office; perhaps young people don't know what they are anymore.) The exercise is to tell without showing. If you try this, we will have a basis for understanding.
 

DeletedUser34548

I disagree. With standard orientation, you would expect North to be up top. Like on 99% of maps. Why would you introduce this 45 degrees rotation?

I do not introduce; I reveal. True, some maps place North at the top, when commonly viewed. Others place it at the center, with the South Pole represented as the entire boundary. Ancient Greeks prefered North at the top but Medieval European cartographers placed East topmost. Chinese maps put South on top. And many modern maps render the spheroid in the plane by methods that confound the question.

In any case, other posters have chosen this convention and I say it is convenient. I prefer "E-W streets" and "N-S aisles" to "NW-SE", "NE-SW", etc., which are less concise and confuse the eye.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
You shame only yourself.

Yeah, I do that a lot, get used to it.

It is people like you who have rules for everyone else.

Clean miss, I don't have separate 'rules; for others. . I live by whatever 'rules' I have. I freely accept the consequences of breaking those 'rules'. if that means someone telling me I'm an ass, or that I shame myself, I'm ok with that.

When one has survived for years in competition, one tends to inflate one's own merit.

Heh. You got me wrong on that one as well I know exactly where I am as a player in this game. If you want to know my status as a player ask the players I;ve mentored and my guildmates.

I suggest some perspective may be useful.

I could not agree more. I suspect we disagree on who needs to gain the perspective.

You may omit me from your reading list and I shall not take offense.

What an odd notion... Why would I not want read what you have to say? Granted, I think you have no basis whatsoever from game or forum experience to have any useful ideas yet, and that you talk like a wise man in a bad kung-fu movie, and are desperately trying to become a wise presence' on the forum and are experimenting in some form of online social engineering, but I'm not so arrogant as to think that I could be wrong or that it's not possible that you can have valuable insights.

Nope. I read everything posted on this Forum except Bugs. I consider everything I see, this game is so complicated and I know that I;m not smart enough to single handedly understand all aspects such that I can't forego the opportunity to learn.

You're bright, eloquent, and imaginative. You could be a phenomenal teacher in this game. Or you could be another reincarnation of Therin4.

We'll see.

I do not introduce; I reveal.

Speaking of, right out of his playbook.
 

DeletedUser34800

What an odd discussion this is. As stated, the game already has set it's orientation. Doesn't seem like an issue though. Who cares if one person says N S E W or Top Left/Right Bottom Left/Right or using landmarks like GBs and Special event buildings? Cities in this game aren't so massive that it's a problem. I have guild mates with every expansion possible, filled every square, and I still find what I need to or am asked to easily.

Also, swing and a miss with the Post Office example.
 

DeletedUser31308

What an odd discussion this is. As stated, the game already has set it's orientation. Doesn't seem like an issue though. Who cares if one person says N S E W or Top Left/Right Bottom Left/Right or using landmarks like GBs and Special event buildings? Cities in this game aren't so massive that it's a problem. I have guild mates with every expansion possible, filled every square, and I still find what I need to or am asked to easily.

Also, swing and a miss with the Post Office example.
Here's a better example. I like to chat on global from time to time. It is not irregular for a newbie to post on global asking for tips. Often, the single most important tip a newbie can receive in this game is related to city layout, because a good layout can majorly increase their efficiency regardless of the playstyle they eventually choose. I have tried to describe in chat what they should try to do with setting up columns with straight roads, sometimes I point out specific regions of their cities that need cleanup with suggestions on how to do so. The entire experience of explaining this is made much more difficult by the fact that I can say North and mean one thing and the listener thinks it means a different thing. I can say top left and it can mean literal top left of screen, top left of the city when considering North to be "up", etc depending on perspective. It forces me to be stupidly verbose just to avoid confusion. Humanity has standardized language to combat this very problem, so you can say something and I can consistently determine the meaning. You may not run into situations where you miss the existence of a standard, but others definitely do (see: me).

Many here have said that they don't see an issue existing that this solves. I'm left wondering if they say this because:
1) They are incapable of considering others, and as long as something isn't a problem for them individually, they do not believe the problem exists.
2) They are confusing "this issue doesn't exist" with "this issue has very limited impact, and thus isn't worth any effort to solve".

I don't believe I can do anything to help the former, but those of the latter should feel consoled to know that no effort is required of them whatsoever. OP has explicitly stated he means this to be used as a link by those that want to improve the clarity of their language. Anyone who has no desire or need for it doesn't have to use it. Personally, I may indeed link to this image in chat in order to clarify directions before talking to someone about their city.
 

DeletedUser34800

All right, I can get that. Talking with people varies wildly from person to person. Everyone understands things differently, reads/comprehends things differently. Saying N may mean something to you, but different for another. Same with Top Left. Could be of the screen, or your city, or the entire designated area. I can see that.

With regards to that, and when discussing with various people throughout the game chat, discord, forums, etc, about layouts and how to fix them and stuff, it could get confusing.

A simple addition of a small directional compass in game could solve this issue. Then orientation would always be able to be seen. Forum users are such a small percentage of the actual player base that this thread won't really matter. Even if we all started going in game and linking it to people, we wouldn't make a dent on the population.

Still, the orientation is in game already, but not directly described. A small compass would solve the issue, but most likely won't be implemented. Hasn't been an issue to me, yet, but I can at least see how it may be an issue for others.
 
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