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Swap threads and Etiquette question

  • Thread starter DeletedUser31498
  • Start date

DeletedUser31498

A lot of people, and several in my guild, have personal swap agreements. I think it's against the spirit of a swap thread to post GBs for which most of the valuable spots are already locked up.

The spirit of a swap thread is ppl pay in, and you get back rewards some of the time. If EVERYONE did the thing I hate, swap threads would just be a waste, since no one gets anything out of it and they might as well just self level and save the time. So clearly, the "honest" swap threaders are subsidizing those who have beneficial agreements amongst themselves and use the swaps to finish off the GB.

It upsets me, obviously, and clearly most ppl here are going to yell at me and just tell me I should do the same, but that's not the point.

A more subtle way of taking advantage is to only jump in on a couple people's GBs, but obviously that's far different and that I personally have no problem with.
 

DeletedUser32389

I have a swap partner that covers my daily collection from GBs and SoKs, this means that I can always drop my haul all at once, and in the same place. This is convenient when you're on the run, and it allows you to more easily concentrate on receiving the prints you're hunting for. Extra points I make here and there I throw up on the swaps. Sometimes I get a return, sometimes I don't, but I don't expect much back. Once I got to large collections it's become a pain to disperse them solely through the swaps, and my exchange only covers one spot. 3rd on my Arc isn't locked in yet, it returns 120 fp and 6 prints, nothing to scoff at. First went for over 1200, that's a whole lot of swapping :)
 

DeletedUser31592

I agree. I have ONE swap partner. So 1st is locked on my Arc, but the others are open. I'm OK with that. Plus it is a baby Arc.

I had the opposite on one of my secondary worlds- someone was posting a baby Arc on the swaps. I need 1 BP, so I've made sure to grab it as often as I can and am in 2nd by a commanding lead over 3rd. Then, yesterday, he posts it to the "GB close to leveling" thread, only about 2/3 leveled, but advertising it to the people with big Arcs and allowing them to snipe spots. I am now 4th and not happy about spending over 100 FPs on it for a 5 FP payout. I would have kept adding to the swap and gladly put up more FPs. But now 1st and 2nd are locked, I could take over 3rd for 35 FPs. Same BPs and only 15 more FPs, so not worth it.
Needless to say, I will NOT be contributing to this player's GBs in the future. I will avoid them in the swaps.
 

DeletedUser31498

I agree. I have ONE swap partner. So 1st is locked on my Arc, but the others are open. I'm OK with that. Plus it is a baby Arc.

I had the opposite on one of my secondary worlds- someone was posting a baby Arc on the swaps. I need 1 BP, so I've made sure to grab it as often as I can and am in 2nd by a commanding lead over 3rd. Then, yesterday, he posts it to the "GB close to leveling" thread, only about 2/3 leveled, but advertising it to the people with big Arcs and allowing them to snipe spots. I am now 4th and not happy about spending over 100 FPs on it for a 5 FP payout. I would have kept adding to the swap and gladly put up more FPs. But now 1st and 2nd are locked, I could take over 3rd for 35 FPs. Same BPs and only 15 more FPs, so not worth it.
Needless to say, I will NOT be contributing to this player's GBs in the future. I will avoid them in the swaps.

Yep that is a great point, and something I got really mad at someone about in my guild. The close to levelling chat I think should only be used by self-levelers/people who swap almost all of the FPs and there are reasonably cheap spots left to nab BPs/FPs.

The people who do the grunt work of levelling really deserve a shot at getting what they deserve.
 

DeletedUser31592

Yep that is a great point, and something I got really mad at someone about in my guild. The close to levelling chat I think should only be used by self-levelers/people who swap almost all of the FPs and there are reasonably cheap spots left to nab BPs/FPs.

The people who do the grunt work of levelling really deserve a shot at getting what they deserve.

I agree.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
If I understand the OP's point- and please correct me if I do not- I would think that the most obvious solution would be not to have the same GB be the target of a "personal" swap and an open, guild-wide swap.

I know that two Guilds in which I am a member have a rule to this effect.
 

DeletedUser31592

Actually, I'd like to know how you lock a position for your swap partner in your GB.

It is about manipulating swaps- especially right after leveling up. If you see people getting close, you lay off for a day or so. For the first two days of a new level, you avoid large swaps. Don't post it to the 100 FP threads or 50 FP threads. This will allow one player to get too close. You can post it 10 times to the 5 FP thread safely. Because multiple people will pick it up, so the points will be spread.
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
You are describing what I call "back door" trades...trades made to secure top slots after the majority of the Gb is leveled. While making these trades outside the guild is verboten, making them within the guild is a bit nefarious as well but my guild has no rule against it. I make it clear to these 'back door' traders I wont accept their swaps on the threads..once others see what's happening, these players tend to slow their own progress. My opinion is that guild mates can snipe because that is a free gift in exchange for rewards. It puts the onus of snipe protection on the swap donators...but then that should ALWAYS be the case if you are swapping.
 

DeletedUser31540

A lot of people, and several in my guild, have personal swap agreements. I think it's against the spirit of a swap thread to post GBs for which most of the valuable spots are already locked up.

The spirit of a swap thread is ppl pay in, and you get back rewards some of the time. If EVERYONE did the thing I hate, swap threads would just be a waste, since no one gets anything out of it and they might as well just self level and save the time. So clearly, the "honest" swap threaders are subsidizing those who have beneficial agreements amongst themselves and use the swaps to finish off the GB.

It upsets me, obviously, and clearly most ppl here are going to yell at me and just tell me I should do the same, but that's not the point.

A more subtle way of taking advantage is to only jump in on a couple people's GBs, but obviously that's far different and that I personally have no problem with.

This is a great discussion point congrats for bringing it up

I will share my experience and opinion on this topic as its something that has changed a lot over my 218 days of play.

On day 60 i had 30,000 ranking points, 2 gbs, and was content content guild hopping (for the coins) ... i didnt participate in fp swap threads or fp swaps of any kind for that matter. Luckily i ended my guild hopping for the day in a random guild called the Humble Horde. It was a small guild and when i logged in the following day all the members had welcomed me to the guild. I had planned on continuing my hopping ways but their warm welcome made me relunctant to leave.

I decided to stick around for a bit to see what it was like to be part of a guild... at first didnt participate in any swaps and used all my fps on tech. I erected a couple more GBs and they were all incredibly generous in helping get them out of the mud and i realized how helpful being in a good guild could be.

Soon i had 5 GBs but still didnt participate in the swaps... most of the members had close to 1 million points and daily fp collections that i could not compete with so i didnt even try and just focused on Tech.

Upon reaching the end of the EMA tech tree i was making 8 fps a day + 24 for the hourly... instead of progressing to Hma i started to participate in the swaps ... i targeted only 1 or 2 gbs at a time and hardly ever had the required fps when i posted in the swap threads. I would always message the person and let them know how many fps i owed them ... my guild mates were fine with this and in this manner i was able to snag reward spots i would have been unable to get otherwise

At some point during my early stages of doing swaps i was resentful of how much more fps my guildmates had access to but by playing a lot, targeting only a few buildings, and being allowed to participate in swaps by owing fps i was able to leverage my lack of fps and still compete to some extent ... over time i became more and more able to secure reward spots and become increasingly competitive.

Being in a small guild it was easier to identify the tendencies of my guild mates and prioritize accordingly. Some were oppourtunist posting only on certain buildings (like me), some logged on once a day and did not discriminate (they filled all the swap threads regardless whether or not they would get a reward), and some used the guild swap threads to level their buildings to a certain point and then gave 1st or 2nd to someone else (either with an outside swap, or by inviting a lv 80 arcer snipe a spot at no cost to them... other than angry guildmates lol)

When i first realized this was a practice i was yet again a bit frustrated because my GBs were not appealing enough to have a lv 80 arcer to the same for my buildings ... however i did eventually realize that i had no cause to be upset as they were just doing what was best for them.

This is the most important thing to realize about playing FoE seriously. You need to realize that everyone will (or should) do what is most profitable for them. If that means leveling ones arc 500 / 1000 through guild swap threads and then getting 400 free points by inviting lv 80 arcs to snipe then that is what you should expect a player to do ... one shouldnt get mad at a guildmate for doing what is best for them.

Also it is helpful to remember that even if you invested a lot of fps and didnt get a reward it was not a waste ... you still leveled your GB just as effectively as you would have if you self leveled but atleast you gave yourself a shot at a reward

Participating in guild fp swap threads can sure be frustrating at times but if one is smart, patient, and understanding, it is the best avenue for generating extra fps while leveling up your GBs ... go for rewards but never expect them unless you lock a spot

Today is day 218, i have 15 GBs, over 1 million points, and my daily fp collection is 77 + 24 hourly. Iwould be much further behind had i not embraced the swap game and battled through the many setbacks ive experienced in participating in them along the way

Sorry if this post was long and convoluted but i thought that my experience was relevant enough to share ;)
 
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Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
I have an issue with back door traders because the second slot tends to pay a higher percentage than the first slot..effectively sniped out of position without the 'gift' of a snipe. It seems a bit nefarious to me. Most arc users won't snipe a slot without a small loss, (to turn city fps into inventory) breaking even, or a small gain. Swap thread GBs are tough for me to snipe on a regular basis simply because they aren't mathematically viable to do so. When my guildies snipe a spot on a GB I'm swapping in I applaud them for helping my mate...Every fp I put in was matched, so I have no complaints. But trading away my potential first slot to a guildie or an outsider is collusion against an individual and doesn't promote a healthy guild atmosphere...
 

DeletedUser27184

This is a great discussion point congrats for bringing it up

I will share my experience and opinion on this topic as its something that has changed a lot over my 218 days of play.
Your story is quite similar to mine.
I found, quite by mistake, my current guild. It is a large guild in the server but it is very friendly and helpful. There are very few rules, as everything run quite smoothly by being nice. There is an optional Obs thread, which most guildies do help. Trades for tech and GB are usually fulfilled within hours if possible, Advanced age goods are donated for a smaller FP sum, and so on.
Interestingly enough, there are very few rules on the FP swaps which means that everything goes there. When I joined the guild there were several major players who dominated (still are), players with personal swaps, players who do snipes (or being heavily sniped into), self investors and more. Like you I observed the other players and over time I learned how to earn my rewards.
Now, I prefer that kind of free play. It may be that I get used to it, but I think its better for a guild and players alike.
 

DeletedUser29563

not to have the same GB be the target of a "personal" swap and an open, guild-wide swap.
Agreed....I have two swap partners for my Arcs.....when they get close to leveling I will put them in a " bp available" thread we created. And I ensure that my guildmates...if they choose to take those last two bp reward spots...get them at a rate of 2fp per bp or less.
I would never put my Arc..or any other GB in our guild swap threads that also have private swap donors.
It's just........rude
 

DeletedUser27889

Interesting topic and I never thought that people were bothered by this before. When I participate in guild swap threads I never do so with the idea that I am guaranteed a spot, that almost seems entitled to me. However it did not dawn on me that others may feel this way. My personal etiquette, feel free to tell me if others think it is wrong is:

1) I never post a GB when all spots are locked up. I've seen others do it and I've taken many of those swaps to keep threads going but I don't think it's right to offer up a swap with no chance of landing in a spot in the future.

2) When I was working on arc I had first locked and a trade partner. I never considered this rude as there were 3 open slots typically paying more than most other GBs first and seconds and costing less.

3) Though I've switched to a new method I had been doing some small swaps to fill in spots 2-5 on a GB while also adding my own points. Then when it hit break even for an arc having them lock first. I am not trying to defend but I had never thought of this as rude as if I had continued to put it on swaps I would have spent more, the person getting first would also need to spend much more and there would be more people with points on the GB ending up with nothing. Also, I just don't think someone who puts 50 FP on a GB, is getting 30 back base and a swap back on theirs should feel entitled to more than that. Having a high arc take first lowers the cost for everyone else on the GB.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a trade partner for first place and putting the rest of the spots on the swap threads. Nothing in swap threads are ever guaranteed, if you see a GB with first place locked you're under no obligation to take that trade. If you see a building you've donated to have someone surpass you in points the same could have happened had they put the building on the threads with other members but instead of it moving you to second place you're now in 4th because of all the different contributors. Swap threads should not be used with the intention or mindset that you 'will' get something but that you 'could' get something. Just my humble opinion of course.
 

DeletedUser31498

Interesting topic and I never thought that people were bothered by this before. When I participate in guild swap threads I never do so with the idea that I am guaranteed a spot, that almost seems entitled to me. However it did not dawn on me that others may feel this way. My personal etiquette, feel free to tell me if others think it is wrong is:

1) I never post a GB when all spots are locked up. I've seen others do it and I've taken many of those swaps to keep threads going but I don't think it's right to offer up a swap with no chance of landing in a spot in the future.

2) When I was working on arc I had first locked and a trade partner. I never considered this rude as there were 3 open slots typically paying more than most other GBs first and seconds and costing less.

3) Though I've switched to a new method I had been doing some small swaps to fill in spots 2-5 on a GB while also adding my own points. Then when it hit break even for an arc having them lock first. I am not trying to defend but I had never thought of this as rude as if I had continued to put it on swaps I would have spent more, the person getting first would also need to spend much more and there would be more people with points on the GB ending up with nothing. Also, I just don't think someone who puts 50 FP on a GB, is getting 30 back base and a swap back on theirs should feel entitled to more than that. Having a high arc take first lowers the cost for everyone else on the GB.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a trade partner for first place and putting the rest of the spots on the swap threads. Nothing in swap threads are ever guaranteed, if you see a GB with first place locked you're under no obligation to take that trade. If you see a building you've donated to have someone surpass you in points the same could have happened had they put the building on the threads with other members but instead of it moving you to second place you're now in 4th because of all the different contributors. Swap threads should not be used with the intention or mindset that you 'will' get something but that you 'could' get something. Just my humble opinion of course.

@Ognor the Hood you both have said similar things, most of which I agree with.

I think the real problem I have is with this sentiment: "Also it is helpful to remember that even if you invested a lot of fps and didnt get a reward it was not a waste ... you still leveled your GB just as effectively as you would have if you self leveled but atleast you gave yourself a shot at a reward"

My point is a lot of people work swaps so that you really didn't have a shot at a reward. You probably thought you did, but he ensured all the good spots would be taken by his partners.

Manda: I don't think there's anything wrong with having a trade partner for first place and putting the rest of the spots on the swap threads

Agree in principle, but it depends on how much the partner puts on. Let's take a level 10 CDM for example, which takes 700 to level. If you use all swap threads, 150 likely takes first?

If you do a personal swap for the first 250, he is going to get first almost(?) every time. the rewards are 70/35/10/5, let alone medals and BPs. So by investing 1/3 or so, he gets 70 / (70+35+10+5) = 58% of the rewards. To me, to make this fair, the swap partner should need to pay in 58% of the FPs, or ~400 to make this "fair". Anything less, and you're subisidizing your agreement with your swap thread guildies.

When some people to a partner swap, it might be tough to visualize what I mean. But if everyone did this for the top couple spots, it's very easy to visualize how much you're taking advantage of the "nice" players who indiscriminately dump FPs to any active message.
 

DeletedUser29563

Interesting topic and I never thought that people were bothered by this before. When I participate in guild swap threads I never do so with the idea that I am guaranteed a spot, that almost seems entitled to me. However it did not dawn on me that others may feel this way. My personal etiquette, feel free to tell me if others think it is wrong is:

1) I never post a GB when all spots are locked up. I've seen others do it and I've taken many of those swaps to keep threads going but I don't think it's right to offer up a swap with no chance of landing in a spot in the future.

2) When I was working on arc I had first locked and a trade partner. I never considered this rude as there were 3 open slots typically paying more than most other GBs first and seconds and costing less.

3) Though I've switched to a new method I had been doing some small swaps to fill in spots 2-5 on a GB while also adding my own points. Then when it hit break even for an arc having them lock first. I am not trying to defend but I had never thought of this as rude as if I had continued to put it on swaps I would have spent more, the person getting first would also need to spend much more and there would be more people with points on the GB ending up with nothing. Also, I just don't think someone who puts 50 FP on a GB, is getting 30 back base and a swap back on theirs should feel entitled to more than that. Having a high arc take first lowers the cost for everyone else on the GB.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a trade partner for first place and putting the rest of the spots on the swap threads. Nothing in swap threads are ever guaranteed, if you see a GB with first place locked you're under no obligation to take that trade. If you see a building you've donated to have someone surpass you in points the same could have happened had they put the building on the threads with other members but instead of it moving you to second place you're now in 4th because of all the different contributors. Swap threads should not be used with the intention or mindset that you 'will' get something but that you 'could' get something. Just my humble opinion of course.
I can always count on you Manda to be my counterpoint .
You are absolutely correct. Public swap threads are not a guarantee of rewards. I just feel like putting a GB in the guild swap were there is NO chance at a viable reward is all together different.
It just doesn't feel right to me. But hey..that's just me. Having shared a guild with you I know were you are coming from and also know you are an honorable player/guildmate. So I always welcome and appreciate your input...keep it coming.
 

DeletedUser29563

1) I never post a GB when all spots are locked up. I've seen others do it and I've taken many of those swaps to keep threads going but I don't think it's right to offer up a swap with no chance of landing in a spot in the future.
Ok this is what I was talking about. I agree with this 100%. Maybe I should have conveyed this a little better in my original post.
 

DeletedUser31498

1) I never post a GB when all spots are locked up. I've seen others do it and I've taken many of those swaps to keep threads going but I don't think it's right to offer up a swap with no chance of landing in a spot in the future.

Right but I mean that is the absolute most extreme case where I think everyone agrees it's wrong. Similarly, if the top 4 are all locked up and idk 15% of the FPs are still needed to level it's clearly wrong. So the interesting discussion is what is the cutoff. To me, putting in the FP % to match the reward % is where it's acceptable.
 
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DeletedUser29563

Right but I mean that is the absolute most extreme case where I think everyone agrees it's wrong. Similarly, if the top 4 are all locked up and idk 15% of the FPs are still needed to level it's clearly wrong. So the interesting discussion is what is the cutoff. To me, putting in the FP % to match the reward % is where it's acceptable.
Makes sense to me
 
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