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[FAQ] Help, I am being plundered!

  • Thread starter DeletedUser8152
  • Start date

DeletedUser35475

Salsuero said:
Proof?

How is Saint Basil's Cathedral (you know... the GB I was advocating for) "way ahead" of any age of any player eligible to be plundered? At worst, it's three ages ahead of the bottom rung of those players in Iron Age. But if you choose to camp in Iron Age for long enough to matter, you're probably going to work on later-age GBs while doing so, which means it probably doesn't apply to that age for very long. If you are in EMA, that means you only need to build that specific GB two ages early. I don't know that this honestly qualifies as "way ahead", though I'd certainly agree to something more like "a bit ahead" to be fair.



Ok, I'll take your assertion that I'm above average as I'm specifically advocating for others to become so in my comment. I'm not speaking just to average players, so you got me there.



It wasn't designed to allow people to get GBs ahead of their age? Have you reported this bug?



So... most people don't have The Arc in this game before they reach the Future Era? We should exclude anyone who cannot be plundered from your metrics since they don't apply to this conversation as a whole. Still most people? You're really going to tell me that most people in this game never build not one single GB ahead of their age... not even just one age ahead? Most? Really? Proof, please.



That's probably a true statement, though you again have provided no proof. I also never mentioned the Deal Castle in my comment -- at all... not once.
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St Basil is available in LMA. 2 attack GB's are available before it so it is more likely those will be built and leveled to some degree before you can even think about getting a defensive building.

For proof I just look at my hood in my 3 worlds. I am in IND game in 2 and in EMA in 1. The top 10-15 players in my hood have more than 1 GB above age. Another 10 or so have 1 above age. The other 50 lor so don't. I suspect it was like that in previous hoods and will be the same in future hoods until I get near the end eras.

The game is not designed to have people get GB's above their age. Why do you think they went through all the trouble of creating the different ages, the goods and assigning GB's to an age if the design was to have people just but the goods, get a print and build a GB whenever they wanted? The game, according to Inno itself, is designed for you to move through the ages. Just because you CAN get GB before their ages is just using the game within the design. Just because it wasn't designed for it doesn't mean it is 'wrong' to do it, it is like an unintended benefit. For example I have used an electric boat motor to mix 100 gallons of drinks to sell at festivals. It's not what it is designed for but it works quite well at the task.

From what I have seen most people do not have the Arc before the age it is available. I just looked through one of my IND hoods and 13 out of 74 people have the Arc, so ~17%. From what I have seen most people play it as designed, moving through the ages and building when the GB and goods become available through standard buildings.
 

DeletedUser35475

Volodya said:
I agree up to a point, in that I would actually prefer it if it wasn't possible to build a gb before its age. Saying that players who do that are acting contrary to the "design" of the game is silly though; that ship sailed long ago. I suspect that the game designers never imagined that strategy would become as common as it in fact is, but clearly they knew that building age-inappropriate gbs was possible and they were ok with that. It would've been simple to design the game so it wasn't possible.
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Every thing is designed around certain fixed parameters, machinery, programs, tools, toys everything. This game is no different. According to Inno it is designed for players to move through the ages.

The fact that you can do things within the design doesn't mean the design is flawed or that it is somehow wrong to do. The good thing about computer games compared to board games is if you do something in a computer game then it is the game letting you do ut not some interpretation of the game rules. If something can be done within the design then it is ok.

I don't think the designers went through all the trouble of creating ages, assigning goods, buildings, tech, tech costs and GB to ages and then put a backdoor where you didn't need to do any of that if you wanted to jump ahead, so to speak.
 
RazorbackPirate

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
commanderstinkfoot said:
St Basil is available in LMA. 2 attack GB's are available before it so it is more likely those will be built and leveled to some degree before you can even think about getting a defensive building.

For proof I just look at my hood in my 3 worlds. I am in IND game in 2 and in EMA in 1. The top 10-15 players in my hood have more than 1 GB above age. Another 10 or so have 1 above age. The other 50 lor so don't. I suspect it was like that in previous hoods and will be the same in future hoods until I get near the end eras.

The game is not designed to have people get GB's above their age. Why do you think they went through all the trouble of creating the different ages, the goods and assigning GB's to an age if the design was to have people just but the goods, get a print and build a GB whenever they wanted? The game, according to Inno itself, is designed for you to move through the ages. Just because you CAN get GB before their ages is just using the game within the design. Just because it wasn't designed for it doesn't mean it is 'wrong' to do it, it is like an unintended benefit. For example I have used an electric boat motor to mix 100 gallons of drinks to sell at festivals. It's not what it is designed for but it works quite well at the task.

From what I have seen most people do not have the Arc before the age it is available. I just looked through one of my IND hoods and 13 out of 74 people have the Arc, so ~17%. From what I have seen most people play it as designed, moving through the ages and building when the GB and goods become available through standard buildings.
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That's a whole lot of completely useless and incorrect information. On this point, you're just wrong commander.
 
RazorbackPirate

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
commanderstinkfoot said:
Every thing is designed around certain fixed parameters, machinery, programs, tools, toys everything. This game is no different. According to Inno it is designed for players to move through the ages.

The fact that you can do things within the design doesn't mean the design is flawed or that it is somehow wrong to do. The good thing about computer games compared to board games is if you do something in a computer game then it is the game letting you do ut not some interpretation of the game rules. If something can be done within the design then it is ok.

I don't think the designers went through all the trouble of creating ages, assigning goods, buildings, tech, tech costs and GB to ages and then put a backdoor where you didn't need to do any of that if you wanted to jump ahead, so to speak.
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Whole lot of useless and incorrect information - Part Deux. Still just as wrong commander.
 

DeletedUser32328

commanderstinkfoot said:
Really? They went through all the trouble to design ages with the GB in them but that's not how it is designed?
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The GBs are linked to their respective eras in the sense that:
- they cost goods of that era to be built
- you get a chance at BPs when motivating/polishing buildings of that era
- they are released together with (the part of) that era

Not building them as you see fit before reaching that age, is a concept developed by some players that has nothing to do with game design itself.
 
RazorbackPirate

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
commanderstinkfoot said:
Ok. I guess you know best.
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No. I'm just willing to listen to and believe the game designers when they weigh in on the issue.
sloppyjoeslayer said:
Yes and the lead game designer at the time said so when asked about it, which I posted on the fun Prime Directive thread; Disallow the Ability to Build a Great Building beyond your Age
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But please, argue away. It's fun to watch you come up with all your reasons and justifications to support the losing end of a long ago, definitively settled, argument.
 

DeletedUser35475

RazorbackPirate said:
No. Just willing to listen to and believe the game designers themselves when they weigh in on the issue.
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None of your links talk about design only how the game works. They are 2 different things. My computer is designed to run on 120v. The fact that it will run on 105v doesn't mean that is the way it was designed.
 

DeletedUser31440

commanderstinkfoot said:
Really? They went through all the trouble to design ages with the GB in them but that's not how it is designed?
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You're right those stupid devs had no idea what they were doing when they:
Allowed players to get BP's based on the age/era of the building they're aiding, not tying it to Town Hall age.
Allowed players to receive BP's as a contribution reward and letting them donate to GB's of all ages/eras.
Allowed players to trade goods between all different ages/eras.
Created a GB that gives goods based off the age/era of a building being aided.
Allowed diamond purchase of BP's from GbsG that are higher age/era.
Allowed diamond purchase of goods for higher ages.

Then after they made those blatant mistakes, they did nothing to fix this oversight in the design of the game.

Much more reasonable than you just incorrectly assuming they didn't foresee and allow players to get higher aged GB's.
 

DeletedUser26965

commanderstinkfoot said:
He was directing that to me. He just used you to do so! :)
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RazorbackPirate said:
Sorry, not directed to you, but the commander. Just linking back to the definitive proof you previously posted of the developers weighing in on the issue, forever settling the argument. I'm hoping commander might look at it this time.
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ah, okay, but yes that links to former lead designer answering someone who asked about it when GB's came out, yes you can get GB's above your age, straight from the horse's mouth.
 

DeletedUser31440

commanderstinkfoot said:
My computer is designed to run on 120v. The fact that it will run on 105v doesn't mean that is the way it was designed.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does mean your computer was designed to also work with 105V. When designing electrical components the spectrum of input voltages that are likely to be seen is known, those values are then used to create a system that can work within that spectrum.
 

DeletedUser35475

sloppyjoeslayer said:
ah, okay, but yes that links to former lead designer answering someone who asked about it when GB's came out, yes you can get GB's above your age, straight from the horse's mouth.
Click to expand...

Obviously you CAN do it. You can use an old style can opener to open cardboard boxes too but that is not what it was designed for.
 

Volodya

Well-Known Member
commanderstinkfoot said:
Every thing is designed around certain fixed parameters, machinery, programs, tools, toys everything. This game is no different. According to Inno it is designed for players to move through the ages.

The fact that you can do things within the design doesn't mean the design is flawed or that it is somehow wrong to do. The good thing about computer games compared to board games is if you do something in a computer game then it is the game letting you do ut not some interpretation of the game rules. If something can be done within the design then it is ok.

I don't think the designers went through all the trouble of creating ages, assigning goods, buildings, tech, tech costs and GB to ages and then put a backdoor where you didn't need to do any of that if you wanted to jump ahead, so to speak.
Click to expand...


Please read this exchange, posted by @sloppyjoeslayer in the renowned "Prime Directive" thread, in which Anwar (the lead FoE designer who sadly passed away far too young) directly speaks to the question at hand:


"Martynius said:
↑
...can you build a great building of an age you haven't yet reached?

Anwar said:
↑
5. Yes, but it's going to be difficult as Great Buildings require a lot of goods from their age to build.

Regards,

Anwar, Nov 22, 2012
(former Lead Game Designer)
https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/great-building.1253/page-3#post-5931"

Now, it can certainly be argued that things have changed since that Q&A, in that it's no longer particularly difficult to build gbs before their age and as a result this strategy is much more prevalent than was anticipated, but it's really incontrovertible that the mere fact of doing so is entirely permissible within the design of the game. It isn't any kind of backdoor or bug; it absolutely is part of the original design (unless you claim to know better than the guy who actually designed this game.)
 
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