Changelog 1.136 Feedback

[DeletedUser29623]

One point more that is bad for fighters, one reason more why now fighters (ok some) are complaining

Plenty of fighters are also good at resource management, don’t rush the tech tree or map, and aren’t going to be thrown by the occasional negotiation in DCs. It’s not really fair to the fighters in the game to suggest that they all have this problem and are hardship cases discriminated against by Inno. I only brought up my particular situation to emphasize the variety of play styles out there and balance out all the complainers.

 

[DeletedUser36526]

One good thing about stand alone negotiations, now that I'm not doing daily quests because of them I 'm spending a lot less time playing the game, I even demolished half my cities because my interest in the game (after the introduction of this silly idea) has gone down a whole lot. I wonder if FOE tracks how many people bother to do the dailies and if there is a sharp decline in the number of completed dailies since the introduction of stand alone negotiations. A more reasonable introduction would have been to give the player a choice between a battle or a negotiation like in GE, not one or the other.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

Plenty of fighters are also good at resource management, don’t rush the tech tree or map, and aren’t going to be thrown by the occasional negotiation in DCs. It’s not really fair to the fighters in the game to suggest that they all have this problem and are hardship cases discriminated against by Inno. I only brought up my particular situation to emphasize the variety of play styles out there and balance out all the complainers.

Well, yes, Fighters also need to make goods. But fighters also need to have Great Buildings (Zeus, Cathedral of Aachen, Alcatraz, Terracotta Army) negotiators do not need and some that are necessary for fighters but may be usefull for others too. But is there any Great Building a fighter does not need but is a must for someone who only negotiates? I know of none.

So of course those who do not fight have more place for producing goods. Does that mean they are using it accordingly? No of course not. But they cannot win a fight, so they welcome of course the negotiations. Fighters do not like to waste goods. Negotiators?`

How exactly do fighters--...--"endow" negotiators with lower-age goods? It sounds like you play with a lot of people who don't know what they're doing and move up too fast, but here's a tip: When you make piles of goods in one age, you still have them when you move up to the next one. I don't move up an age until I have plenty of goods socked away for GE negotiations in the next age. This has never been a problem for me. If for some reason I run out, though, it's really easy to trade down with other players in lower ages who also have plenty of goods, the same way I have sometimes traded up in preparation for aging up......

Trading down goods (2 for 1) is endowing if we are talking about the last eras of the game. If you have to negotiate through GE for 1 year in the same era (and have done so in the era before) you are running out of goods. And there is no reason whatever for anyone in lower ages to accept those goods (beside a few for the first days in the new era). So if you expect to be able to trade down, look at who is taking your goods. In most cases that are players of higher eras of your guild who are just acting nice. But why are they able to do so? Because they did not waste their goods for negotiations.

I would indeed be annoyed if fighting were required to finish an event. There are definitely quests that require building military buildings and recruiting units, and I've sometimes had to waste space and population doing that to avoid getting stalled out in an event until GE comes around again. ... .

But that space you would need for any building you are required to build, there is no difference if this is a military building. And with a bit of preparation I am convinced you could do all this recruiting using GE (or spearfighters )

Previously, I had to sit out a lot of DCs because of the fighting requirement. Welcome to the club.

Well you choose to ignore one (not so small ) part of the game. That is always a problem.

Besides, I had two very complex negotiations on two days our of three now, you only one and that was a moderate one. We are not talking about the same.

 

[DeletedUser31592]

Battle Challenge: Who isn't set up to fight? At least a little? Who negotiates their way through all the provinces? That gets VERY expensive. With a Traz and the normal military buildings, you can quickly build up more units that you'll ever need. And units you lose are cheap and easy to buy again.
Production Challenge: If you've been playing for a while, you gradually acquire a collection of event production buildings (Gondola Dock Market, Cider Mill, Aviary, Bazaar, Mad Scientist's Lab, Santa's Workshop, Soccer Field, etc.) or Terrace Farms. If the challenge wants 24-hr productions, make yourself some FPs - like you were probably going to do anyway. If it wants 5-min productions, it should take you less than an hour total. etc.
Sector Challenges: You're going to need the sectors eventually anyway. If you're ahead of your age on the map, that just means you've got some tech research to do - which you're also going to eventually do anyway.

The point is, all the other challenges take some effort (as they should), but cost relatively little, materially. But goods are much more expensive than coins and supplies. And goods buildings take up more space in your city - which let's face it, is the most valuable commodity of all in this game.


And what if they're asking for goods from the previous era, that you don't have thousands of, because you had to use them to make Promethium? Sure, I'd be happy to negotiate away my OF goods all day long. But AF goods are particularly hard to come by lately. Yes, I could rebuild some previous-age goods buildings, but that makes it even more expensive - in the most valuable commodity in the game.

And yes, so far, every Negotiation Challenge I've seen has asked for (at least some) AF goods (my previous age) which I do not have thousands of lying around. And some of the VF techs require more Promethium to unlock. And some of the VF sectors need Promethium to negotiate (in case I have to do that).

When Daily Challenges went live, I had been playing the game for over two and a half years and had 40 fights under my belt. Basically all from quests. I didn't have a single military GB- not even a Zeus. I negotiated everything. I've adapted. I'm not great at fighting, and I don't enjoy it so I rely on autobattle when I can, but I've adjusted. Begrudgingly.

 

[DeletedUser]

Battle Challenge: Who isn't set up to fight? At least a little?

From what I"ve heard/seen there are lots of players that aren't set up to fight to varying degrees. Some not at all. And the difficult battles have boosted two wave armies, which you need to be set up to fight more than "a little" to beat.

 

[DeletedUser]

But is there any Great Building a fighter does not need but is a must for someone who only negotiates? I know of none.

How about the goods-producing GBs? They seem like a no brainer must have for negotiators, especially the ones that boost coin/supply production.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

How about the goods-producing GBs? They seem like a no brainer must have for negotiators, especially the ones that boost coin/supply production.

Do you really think a fighter does not need goods-producing GB? That they will have neither Markus nor LoA nor Royal Albert Hall?

 

[DeletedUser29623]

Trading down goods (2 for 1) is endowing if we are talking about the last eras of the game. If you have to negotiate through GE for 1 year in the same era (and have done so in the era before) you are running out of goods. And there is no reason whatever for anyone in lower ages to accept those goods (beside a few for the first days in the new era). So if you expect to be able to trade down, look at who is taking your goods. In most cases that are players of higher eras of your guild who are just acting nice. But why are they able to do so? Because they did not waste their goods for negotiations.

This just isn't true. Admittedly, I've rarely needed to trade down, but when I do it usually isn't people in my guild who take the trades. Or I go looking for people trading up. Regardless, I'm no more "wasting" my goods on negotiations that you are "wasting" your resources on military GBs. Negotiations are what goods are FOR, imho. What else is there to spend them on if you're not rushing the tech tree?

 

[DeletedUser35146]

This just isn't true. Admittedly, I've rarely needed to trade down, but when I do it usually isn't people in my guild who take the trades. Or I go looking for people trading up.....

It may be not true for you. But most want to trade down. It is rare to find some the other way, at least not with the same 2:1 relation.

... What else is there to spend them on if you're not rushing the tech tree?

For GvG
most of the time I am now playing FOE almost all goods I did not need for tech or GB and for fullfilling quests in events went into the treasury.

I think, because now fewer guild are playing GvG in future era or below, a drain of goods is missing and therefore INNO implemented more opportunities to spend them.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

A more reasonable introduction would have been to give the player a choice between a battle or a negotiation like in GE, not one or the other.

You know, I said the same thing about Battles when they were introduced. Especially the Battles on par with level 4 GE. I even complained about it here on the forum. You know what I was told by the vast majority of Forum members? "Suck it up buttercup. Built and level the A/D GBs or skip them." I chose the former. I planted CoA, rushed it to 5 and got Zues and CdM to levels 8 and 9. I skipped a few DCs as I was building my capabilities, but now I both fight and negotiate with ease. What is it with you fighters who think it's anathema to produce goods?

It seems the farmer George Washington, commanding General of the Continental Army, first President of the United States, was able to manage both roles.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do you really think a fighter does not need goods-producing GB? That they will have neither Markus nor LoA nor Royal Albert Hall?

Have and need are two different things. I am a fighter who also negotiates on occasion, so I have GBs to support both avenues. I don't understand why so many people treat this like an either/or type of game, when you can set yourself up to be successful with both.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

Have and need are two different things. I am a fighter who also negotiates on occasion, so I have GBs to support both avenues. I don't understand why so many people treat this like an either/or type of game, when you can set yourself up to be successful with both.

I do not treat as a either/or. You cannot do so as a fighter. You can only do so as a negotiator. And of course than you do need less space, simply as that. So at the moment is it easier to play FOE as a pure negotiator than as a fighter (even if the fighter is able to do the occasional negotiation) .And I do not like the way FOE is taking here.
Well, and two very complex negotiations in only three days is just too much for the rewards the CD are giving. At least in my eyes.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

It may be not true for you. But most want to trade down. It is rare to find some the other way, at least not with the same 2:1 relation.

Past LMA, many players and guilds use trade calculators instead of 2 for 1. You may investigate placing trades at those ratios instead. I don't know about higher ages, but every time I look at the market, the majority of trades are players offering goods from a lower age for goods from a higher age. Since I have so many goods, (I produce a ton and I save them by fighting), I'm always trading up and down multiple ages, I don't have many issues.

For GvG
most of the time I am now playing FOE almost all goods I did not need for tech or GB and for fulfilling quests in events went into the treasury.

That's cool, but you're the one who's chosen to be in a constant state of war and to divert the majority of your resources toward that effort. Then you come here to complain that Inno is not placating your personal play style? Lol.

I think, because now fewer guild are playing GvG in future era or below, a drain of goods is missing and therefore INNO implemented more opportunities to spend them.

I love the grand conspiracy theories. Maybe they just wanted to add variety? Maybe after Battles they felt they needed to add something for the significant farming segment of their user base?

Fighters do not like to waste goods.

Unless they're wasting those goods on fighting.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

Unless they're wasting those goods on fighting.

Yes, that is true But GvG is fun.

By the way I choose my way of playing at a time with no GE, no DC and much fewer events ...
and at a time where negotiations on the map of Continent earned you no points at all ...
yes, I do not like the way FOE is going now. And this negotiation is one part of it.

Past LMA, many players and guilds use trade calculators instead of 2 for 1. You may investigate placing trades at those ratios instead. I don't know about higher ages, but every time I look at the market, the majority of trades are players offering goods from a lower age for goods from a higher age. Since I have so many goods, (I produce a ton and I save them by fighting), I'm always trading up and down multiple ages, I don't have many issues. ...

If you see more good trading up than down you have made the complete opposite experience from mine,so I have some problems to accept it. Well, that is my problem of course.

...
That's cool, but you're the one who's chosen to be in a constant state of war and to divert the majority of your resources toward that effort. Then you come here to complain that Inno is not placating your personal play style? Lol.
.....

Well I have enough goods at the moment, they are not needed for GvG anymore. But I dislike waste. There is no fun in using them this way.

 

[Zatrikon]

Negotiation Challenge: Who isn't set up to negotiate? At least a little? ....

Way to miss the point. Yet again.

It's always seemed pretty obvious to me that if you are actually playing the game - rather than letting the game play you - you need both goods production and military strength. Just like in the real world. I am set up to fight, and I am set up to negotiate. I do both. Mostly, I fight my way through the map these days, but in earlier ages, I did more negotiation. I still negotiate when a quest calls for it, and it's not a problem. I fight when a quest calls for it, and it's also not a problem.

In the GE, I fight almost exclusively. If a Daily Challenge calls for negotiating the GE, I do it on the very first encounters of the first level - so I'm spending just coins and supplies, and maybe just a very few AF goods (like 1-3). I almost never go through all four levels - but that's more due to lack of time in my schedule, rather than lack of units to fight with or goods to negotiate with. In fact, some weeks I'm so busy, I barely get through the first level.

The GE rewards are often pretty good, especially with a Temple of Relics. The Daily Challenge rewards are often not so good. This is perfectly OK. I expect the easier and cheaper tasks and quests and challenges to have lesser rewards and the harder and expensive tasks to have better rewards. This is no longer the case when the DC wants a negotiation for my rapidly diminishing supply of AF goods. If they wanted OF goods (and coins and supplies), it wouldn't be a problem.

I understand that peoples' preferences may differ, but to me, the combat is the most "gamey" part of the game. Strategy. Tactics. I never use the autobattle. IMO, that takes away a major part of the fun of the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do not treat as a either/or. You cannot do so as a fighter. You can only do so as a negotiator. And of course than you do need less space, simply as that. So at the moment is it easier to play FOE as a pure negotiator than as a fighter (even if the fighter is able to do the occasional negotiation) .And I do not like the way FOE is taking here.
Well, and two very complex negotiations in only three days is just too much for the rewards the CD are giving. At least in my eyes.

Okay, I knew I shouldn't have used the word "occasionally" with you. I should have said that I am a fighter who could negotiate exclusively if I wanted to. I am set up to do either one. And that is my point, you don't actually have to choose. You can set yourself up to do both, whichever one you choose at any time.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

...I should have said that I am a fighter who could negotiate exclusively if I wanted to. I am set up to do either one. And that is my point, you don't actually have to choose. You can set yourself up to do both, whichever one you choose at any time.

In all eras?
Sure, you can do this in the later eras, with a very high Chateau. But in lower eras, without campaining in a low era? You cannot have the fighter's LG plus enough goods production buildings for negotiating the GE and the DC and building new LG and make the research and negotiate your way through the Continent.

Do you know that you would need about 1600 good per week for the GE only (all 4 levels of course) ? And I mean doing so without being helped with the goods by your guild.

Even in the last eras it will not be easy, I have about the same amount of Arktik goods now as I had when I went into the Oceanic era. And I was producing Arktik goods the whole year and negotiating no more than two times in the GE. And I could now only negotiate a few weeks without needing new Arktik goods (if still in Oceanic era). At the end it was almost impossible to get Arktik era goods on that world (an old one, opened 2012, so a lot of players in the last era).

 

[Anastasia Lionheart]

Yes, an ungreat addition...

I enjoy the tough negotiations in Level 4 of the Expedition every week. .It's basically a mathematical puzzle. .It makes sense that players who are not good at math would be very frustrated by the puzzle, but that doesn't mean it's bad feature of the game.
.

I'm very good at the puzzles too, but I'm not going to waste two or three turns of 9 or 10 goods for a piece of junk. That's 200-250 goods for one partr of one quest. I'll continue to do GE 4 each week for the Guild, but the useless waste of goods for the DC is just that, a useless waste.

 

[DeletedUser]

In all eras?

Yes. If you choose to play a balanced game, and don't rush the tech tree, you can set yourself up to succeed either way from Iron Age on up. You have to work towards it, it won't happen on day one.

 

[DeletedUser35753]

In all eras?
Sure, you can do this in the later eras, with a very high Chateau. But in lower eras, without campaining in a low era? You cannot have the fighter's LG plus enough goods production buildings for negotiating the GE and the DC and building new LG and make the research and negotiate your way through the Continent.
Do you know that you would need about 1600 good per week for the GE only (all 4 levels of course) ? And I mean doing so without being helped with the goods by your guild.

I'm in a low era, HMA, I have no above age GBs. I'm not a camper, I move steadily up the ages. I easily make it through 48 levels of GE each week. I could do 64 if my guild opened level 4 regularly, and I chose to. I can easily win any battle I've faced recently, so though I often negotiate the later parts of GE I know I could fight it all. So yeah, I do think this sort of balance is possible in a city design even at lower ages.

It probably comes at a cost though - I'm sure my goods heavy city could use all that space on FP production instead. That TF could be making 5FP a day, not 20 goods. But balance is always about trade offs.