Agent327
Well-Known Member
So let's see if I've got this straight. Inno is clueless and attrition is joke because guild members are capable of working together to achieve a common goal.
Got it.
No you don't, but nice try.
So let's see if I've got this straight. Inno is clueless and attrition is joke because guild members are capable of working together to achieve a common goal.
Got it.
If understand attrition correctly then Virgo isn't going to have much of an impact on the number of battles you can do. If you can already win 28 battles if your Virgo has a high% i then they've already been used up otherwise it probably won't proc in battle 29 anyway.Whatever. It still does not negate the point that if you had a leveled Virgo you could do 30+, then the next fighter can take over.
If understand attrition correctly then Virgo isn't going to have much of an impact on the number of battles you can do. If you can already win 28 battles if your Virgo has a high% i then they've already been used up otherwise it probably won't proc in battle 29 anyway.
The question I'm asking is how Virgo allows an extra battle.If you have ten days to battle and VP allows you just 1 more battle for the day on average that's 10 extra battles for the duration of that GBG...
If 5 players with VP get just 1 extra battle per day that's 50 extra battles...
If these same 5 can get just two extra battles per day that's 100 extra battles...
50 - 100 extra battles has got to have some impact. In GE the top guilds win by fractions of a percent. This little bit can mean the difference between winning and losing.
The question I'm asking is how Virgo allows an extra battle.
If understand attrition correctly then Virgo isn't going to have much of an impact on the number of battles you can do. If you can already win 28 battles if your Virgo has a high% i then they've already been used up otherwise it probably won't proc in battle 29 anyway.
It's all about when and how you use Virgo. Sure, you can indiscriminately collect Virgo when you sweep across your city to collect, but then you'll piss away any benefit Virgo offers on fights you'd win anyway - OR - you can wait until this happens,The question I'm asking is how Virgo allows an extra battle.
If you wait for this to happen and then collect Virgo, you'll have X more fights with X% chance of wiping out half your enemy before you start the fight. If you do, complete the fight. If you don't, surrender. Rinse, repeat until your out of Virgo chances. Of course, auto-battle will still shred your troops, but that ain't Virgo's fault.When attrition becomes very high, a player may not be able to defeat 8 army. In that case, if the player uses Virgo, there is a chance of fighting against only 4. Therefore they may get in a extra battle or two.
It's all about when and how you use Virgo. Sure, you can indiscriminately collect Virgo when you sweep across your city to collect, but then you'll piss away any benefit Virgo offers on fights you'd win anyway - OR - you can wait until this happens,
If you wait for this to happen and then collect Virgo, you'll have X more fights with X% chance of wiping out half your enemy before you start the fight. If you do, complete the fight. If you don't, surrender. Rinse, repeat until your out of Virgo chances. Of course, auto-battle will still shred your troops, but that ain't Virgo's fault.
Possibly, but you won't shred troops.With attrition, the days of 10,000 unattached rogues will come to an end eventually. I think that's one of the goals of attrition. For advanced players with stupid high attack GBs and Traz, in GvG, many never run out of troops and can defeat most anything and everything.Attrition will probably go up even if you surrender/lose the fight.
Possibly, but you won't shred troops.With attrition, the days of 10,000 unattached rogues will come to an end eventually. I think that's one of the goals of attrition. For advanced players with stupid high attack GBs and Traz, in GvG, many never run out of troops and can defeat most anything and everything.
Attrition will take care of both of those issues. Strong enough will never be enough meaning, you start losing too many battles and too many units. That's why I think Virgo's true value will be in GBG.
As @mamboking053 pointed out, those 50-100 extra weekly fights could make the difference. The guild with the most provinces wins the most prestige points and determines which guilds move up in the leagues, and which guilds move down.
As @Agent327 wrote, it will cost FPs to take Virgo to X level for X fights with X% chance. For a player with every fight GB at level 70 or higher, multiples of every attack special building in the last 3 years, it will take a lot of FPs to level all the other fight GBs another 10 - 15 levels to have much impact against attrition. Compare that to building and leveling Virgo. Which will have the better impact in won battles per FP invested? Spend FPs to level all the other fight GBs for a small additional gain, or build and level Virgo?
I see little value in Virgo today. But I do see value in GBG for players with maxed out fight GBs. Will GBG make Virgo a must have to build early? Until you've got maxed out fight GBs, Virgo makes little sense any age. With everything the way it is now, Virgo makes little sense at all.
But in a future of GBG and attrition, Virgo makes perfect sense. As does collecting AO and Kraken more strategically. In GBG, you'll fight units your own age and see the units you're up against. I probably won't chance those boosts on a blind hood fight or early in the attrition cycle.
Anyway, this is how I see Virgo fitting into my GBG future, which means Virgo is still a long way off. I've got other fight GBs to build and level before GBG arrives anyway. But, when I'm tapped out on efficiently leveling the fight GBs, and I'm tapped out against attrition, Virgo will make sense. To me anyway.
But in a future of GBG and attrition, Virgo makes perfect sense. As does collecting AO and Kraken more strategically. In GBG, you'll fight units your own age and see the units you're up against. I probably won't chance those boosts on a blind hood fight or early in the attrition cycle.
I'm still not sure how much virgo will give you but I see how collecting strategically can help. It will be tougher for mobile users to track the available number of uses since the app doesn't have the icons the browser does.
AO and AR targetting (for SAM units) do not proc on the same attack (at least I've never seen it). This reduces their relative probabilities by roughly 1-2 procs per battle for those of us in SAM. If I fight with different age units I lose the AO proc.
Well no one really knows how it will play out, we can guess all we want. What we know is to take over a province guild need to do many fights and/org negotiations. We also know that a player may not be able to fight forever, however strong players will for sure be able fight more than average players.
You're right I don't recall seeing that either though to be honest I haven't actually watched my Virgo proc that much.Has anyone seen Karken and Virgo together in action?
Has anyone seen Karken and Virgo together in action?
This is incorrect. That's GE, but not what they've stated they're planning for attrition. From the developers,What we also know is that every guild member can participate and attack a sector and will face units of his own age. Judging from GE and GvG it is very likely that someone in EMA will fight units with a much smaller attack bonus than playerts in SAM. That means campers might have a big advantage when it comes to attrition.
That sounds nothing like what you're talking about and nothing like the way GE works.The idea of attrition was to get low and high players on a more even playing field to ultimately make sure that the contributions of low players stay relevant! For this to work, attrition increases in a rather exponential manner.
For example, the first battles increase attrition by 2% per step, until attrition has reached a total of 10%. Then it would increase by 5% per step until it reached 50%. Then there'd be 10% steps until 100%, and ultimately it just keeps increasing by 20%.
With this system, a new player should be able to make about five battle-contributions quite safely each day. And a high player would have to stop after about 30 to 40 contributions.
Each day attrition gets back to 0%, regardless of how high you have pushed it the day before!
What we also know is that every guild member can participate and attack a sector and will face units of his own age. Judging from GE and GvG it is very likely that someone in EMA will fight units with a much smaller attack bonus than playerts in SAM. That means campers might have a big advantage when it comes to attrition.
Actually, @Agent327 is right. @RazorbackPirate, you quoted the wrong part of the announcement. Here is the relevant part to Agent's point:This is incorrect. That's GE, but not what they've stated they're planning for attrition. From the developers,
We're taking about attrition. "Fights and negotiations will always match the era of the player who performs it," has nothing to do with attrition, it's about the age units and goods each player will use.Actually, @Agent327 is right. @RazorbackPirate, you quoted the wrong part of the announcement. Here is the relevant part to Agent's point:
"From there, they can start conquering adjacent provinces. To take a province, every guild member can click on an eligible province and either perform a fight or a negotiation. These fights and negotiations will always match the era of the player who performs it, allowing every guild member to participate in a feasible manner!"
Maybe it's just me, but that sounds exactly like how GE works. And since the defending army's boosts will undoubtedly scale just like GE/C-Map armies' boosts do, the incremental scaling up with attrition will be lower in real numbers for lower age players even though the percentage will be the same for all players.
Yep, you're right. I misread how the attrition increases. For some reason I was thinking it started at about the GE boost and increased by a % of that. I have no idea where I got that impression.We're taking about attrition. "Fights and negotiations will always match the era of the player who performs it," has nothing to do with attrition, it's about the age units and goods each player will use.
You need to go back and reread the quote. What you're talking about has nothing to do with attrition, what I quoted is all about attrition. So yeah, it's just you.