[Question] GvG

[5moveCheckmate]

How exactly do you think that should be done?



And as far as I know the only browser supportinmg flash was Puffin and that stopped even before Adobe stopped.

How on earth can you hold Inno accountable for that?

Inno's responsibility as a service provider is to be adaptable even under changes in their surroudings. If they can't hold to those basics as a business, they will never grow, and will gradually begin to die. Therefore... I hold Inno accountable for simply adapting a service previously available that they now can't provide simply because they are too lazy to find a solution. If you ask my opinion... it seems that there are no people interested in running a growing, profitable business at Inno.

 

[5moveCheckmate]

So cause I am a forum mod here I am limited to only the US? Interesting.



There are no Inno approved 3rd party sites.



You are what is referred to as an influencer. That makes the results of your surveys rather predictable. It's like looking for Lakers fans in LA in my opinion.



Same answer.



Can you tell me how much time I spend on the forums and how much I spend in the game? I would be really interested to learn, cause it is not something I keep track of, but since you do, please tell me.



Who?



I don't? Can you enlighten me why?



Am I? Show me where you get that knowledge that I am out of touch.



Interesting you see yourself as better qualified than all Inno personel dealing with this. Even more that you feel that not agreeing with you is driving you away from the forums. It is what happens on forums. People do not have to agree with you. They are allowed to have an own opinion

[/QUOTE]

By the way, here's an example of what I mean by the Inno Mods butting heads and using strawman arguments. Instead of having a rational discussion, they immediately challenge it with snappy one liners simply meant to draw out an argument to the point where it's pointless to keep trying to make it lol... avoiding the bulk of the material and hunting for the easiest way to try to tear it apart.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

FoE has become stale. Inno has been trying to revitalize it but they keep digging themselves a deeper hole because they don't fix the basics. Then they butt heads with anyone who says to the otherwise, because they and their entire mod team refuse to think there is anything wrong. They just argue, pulling out the classic use of a strawman.

What specifically is wrong with the basics they don't fix? Genuinely interested.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Inno's responsibility as a service provider is to be adaptable even under changes in their surroudings. If they can't hold to those basics as a business, they will never grow, and will gradually begin to die. Therefore... I hold Inno accountable for simply adapting a service previously available that they now can't provide simply because they are too lazy to find a solution. If you ask my opinion... it seems that there are no people interested in running a growing, profitable business at Inno.

Do you have any idea Inno's business track record? You're now just spouting nonsense because... reasons!

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

If you ask my opinion... it seems that there are no people interested in running a growing, profitable business at Inno.

And yet they are a growing, profitable business. What does that say about your opinion? Asking for a friend.

 

[Agent327]

And when people do take an active voice, like iPenguinPat, guess who shows up to add a censor? the mods. #theforumisglobal

I am having a very hard time trying to understand what your posts have to do with GvG, but this last part deserves an answer.

There is no censorship on this forum. Everyone is free to speak his mind as long as it is within forum rules, so you do not have to worry about iPenguinPat not being allowed an active voice. Admirable as it is that his guildmembers are showing up for support, there is no need for it.

 

[5moveCheckmate]

What specifically is wrong with the basics they don't fix? Genuinely interested.

One: GvG needs to be expanded. It's been totally abandoned, yet it's the most important fixture of the game in regards to guilds.
Two: There needs to be a basic level of equality established in terms of promotionals/in game bonuses. I've wanted to purchase diamonds so I can finish expanding and build in better GvG capability but with the last several expansions costing so many diamonds, it's hard for someone like me, a college student, to buy enough as they are.
Three: Inno needs to stop hurting other players as they try to reduce cheating. The 2000 RQ ban limit (yes I know it's not GvG) is so low and such a widespread tariff on players at all levels, that it more effectively hurts every day players who are willing to spend more time on the game (which is what Inno should want) instead of targeting macros specifically.
Four: (again not GvG) lately there has been a lot of issues with GbG matchmaking and the MMR. We have seen two-three guilds for every season for like the past 3+ months. It's become stale.
When GbG came out, it was a great addition that gave mobile players a taste of multi-guild competition. It should not have caused the abandonment of other parts of the game.

Disclaimer: Those are the top issues with fundamental parts of the game as it stands now that I have. I don't know if these are issues for others or not, so I won't claim them to be.

Finally, in response to your other comment: You're right: I don't know Inno's track record. What I do know is that stale growth is never good in a business, and it can lead to a loss of user base/discontent from it.. Neither is struggling to adapt, because a business that struggles to adapt loses it's competitiveness. It can all easily be fixed though.

Again, a disclaimer: This is just more issues I see personally. As a user of the game, due to the stale growth of FoE my play time has been cut in half, even as much as three-quarters, because I've struggled to rationalize giving the time to something that's just slowly becoming more a repetition of motions. I know at least a dozen high level players if not more on my world that have just stopped playing because there is nothing new or exciting happening. Right now, as I see it, FoE has a lot of appeal to newer players. There's growth to be made, new things to achieve. But once you reach the end, there's nothing for the older players.

My apologies, I do realize this is a lot of complaints not all related to GvG... as much as I enjoy hijacking a thread this probably isn't the place for it.

 

[Emberguard]

it seems that there are no people interested in running a growing, profitable business at Inno.

Not making the choices you want isn’t the same thing as not being interested.

If Inno were not interested they would not have ported the game over to HTML5. I’d love it if we could access desktop on mobile. Sadly it’s just not supported for whatever reason. That’s why we have the mobile app

 

[Algona]

What is truly frustrating is that there are no changes made based upon feedback given to Inno, whether on here or in the support system.

That's not true.

Taking GvG as an aspect, the player base requested a change in recalc time. INNO tried a different recalc time. The player base hated the new recalc time. INNO switched bac.

Reconstruction mode, player request. Many changes in Events, player request. The newest Settlement? Player request. There are more examples.

It's not a long list, but it is significant.

INNO can't repeat can;t give every player what they want if for no other reason player wishes too often directly conflict.

Inno Mods butting heads and using strawman arguments. Instead of having a rational discussion, they immediately challenge it with snappy one liners simply meant to draw out an argument to the point where it's pointless to keep trying to make it lol... avoiding the bulk of the material and hunting for the easiest way to try to tear it apart.

If you have a problem with a mod, report it directly to CMT.

Note that forum rules are clear that mods have a right to their personal opinion.

If they can't hold to those basics as a business, they will never grow, and will gradually begin to die.

You are right, when INNO falls out of touch with their player base the business will fold.

So far there has been no indication of that occurring, despite years of players saying that ~whatever~ change or lack of change is killing the game.

As noted, INNO has a proven track record of year over year growth in income and profit.

Good enough that over the last few years they've been bought.

There are plenty of areas INNO makes mistakes, but financial competence is not one of them.

Rather, INNO has proven repeatedly they know their customers a lot better then we know ourselves.

That's hardly surprising given they have exact information of the spending and play habits of every player.

Can INNO make mistakes that will kill the game? of course. Have they? Not yet.

 

[Agent327]

By the way, here's an example of what I mean by the Inno Mods butting heads and using strawman arguments. Instead of having a rational discussion, they immediately challenge it with snappy one liners simply meant to draw out an argument to the point where it's pointless to keep trying to make it lol... avoiding the bulk of the material and hunting for the easiest way to try to tear it apart.

Easy answer to that. I am not looking for an argument, but if you challenge the time I spend on the game or my game knowledge I am really interested what gives you the right to do so, since it is not very likely that you know me at all. What was it? A Guild decission to start arguing that if someone is able to spend time on the forum, he is not able to spend time on the game?

 

[Taeshire]

Could it be that both is possible? What is the norm for being "good at the game" according to you?

It can be possible, there are exceptions to the rule, hence addition of the word "usually".

BUT if Inno use these forums or the opinions of the majority of regular contributors to the forum as a benchmark for the opinions of those who actually play the game it explains some of the strange decisions they've made recently.

For example, why is there nothing new in SAV (let's be honest, it's merely a regurgitation of SAM/SAAB), why is the Floating Noob Catcher such a poor GB, exactly how is it possible the game allows you to complete all the research in SAV in less than 2 weeks?

I was so looking forward to jumping to a new age on the day of release for the first time ever - I really can't express how disappointed I was with the SAV offering, having only completed SAM and SAAB recently

There has been a whole year to engage with people like Mooing Cat, Penguin Pat and the many others who are genuinely good at this game - to capture their ideas and thoughts on how they can make it less stale whilst not destroying the game mechanics, playability and enjoyment.

FoE would be a lot poorer place without it, and if more people had access to it, took the time to learn about the tactics, they may enjoy the game more.

What is the norm for being "good at the game" according to you?

I've had a quick look at the majority of contributors who have shown negativity towards GVG on here, (the non authorised third party site can have some uses) and if I'm to be honest, it's clear there are no examples there.

Thinking about it, perhaps spending some time watching the various ramblings of MooingCat and FOElite on the tube might even be time better spent than increasing gameplay, but one thing is for sure - spending more time on the forums clearly hasn't helped being good at the game.

GVG is one of the more interesting tactical aspects of the game, (unlike GBG it doesn't have one set formula you can follow to dominate the map). Sadly living in Scotland I can only make recalc a couple of times a week, but I look forward to them, it's a great chance to meet up with around a 3rd of the guild on any given night and contribute as a team to the guild's success whilst having a laugh.

FoE would be a lot poorer place without it, and if more people had access to it, took the time to learn about the tactics, they may enjoy the game more.

 

[Graviton]

A Guild decission to start arguing that if someone is able to spend time on the forum, he is not able to spend time on the game?

Sure looks that way. If they can sign up for a forum account just to tell everyone on the forum our opinions are worthless, we can ask why they seem to care so much about our worthless opinions that they bother to argue with us; and we can assume that they're engaging in a mass, coordinated effort to smear and dismiss us.

Yep. Twitter.

 

[Algona]

FoE would be a lot poorer place without it, and if more people had access to it, took the time to learn about the tactics, they may enjoy the game more.

GvG as is could not handle significantly more players.

Now before you go saying I'm against GvG or because I don't have but 40M RP, please listen.

I've played for 6 years and have explored and commented on most aspects of this game.

I like GvG. I think it's the most fun aspect of this game when a bunch of Guildies work together to grab Sectors. I have no doubt that managing successful long term GvG play is the most difficult aspect of this game. The Guild i ran wouldn't commit to serious GvG but we grabbed our fair share of Sectors. I also understand that a lot of my hundreds of Guildies over the years found GvG to be boring.

GvG was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Recalc lag was a 10 minute nuisance to GvG players when I started in 2015.

By mid 2017 recalc lag was an hour long nightmare of resets and was effecting non-GvG players

GvG was a victim of it's own popularity and original design.

An aside, but an important one. This game separates into two distinct games. Before and after Arc.

GvG was designed pre Arc, No one foresaw attack boosts and total troops available that we see today.

In 2016 you could tell the top GvG players by looking at their city. They had that fancy lvl 10+ Traz, Zeius, CoA, CDM lvl 10 and rows of RHs.

You, Taeshire, appear to have started seriously playing about 18 months ago?

Congratulation on a great city, you have capabilities no player had 5 years ago.

There are a lot of players developing those capabilities and there will be ever more because of Arc ubiquity.

Visualize a GvG that can handle hundreds, thousands of players like you.

Would that look anything like and have the same breadth as GvG as it is today?

GvG as written could not support a thousand players with massive combat boosts and producing 100+ troops per day.

GvG would have to be completely redesigned to take into account the changes to the game and the consequent changes to player capabilities over the years since the original design. One example:

Recalc as is would have to go.

Think about it. Just that one change would completely revise GvG as it is played today.

What other changes would be made? Would a new GvG that accounts for current player capabilities and growth look anything like GvG today?

What of a couple years from now?

Which would you personally prefer? GvG as it is today or the GvG redesigned to handle today's players.

Note well, the last time INNO listened to the masses and built a place for Guilds to fight Guilds we got GBG.

As always, be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

 

[Taeshire]

GvG as is could not handle significantly more players.

Now before you go saying I'm against GvG or because I don't have but 40M RP, please listen.

Actually I'm glad you contributed, you've made an interesting contribution.

Many of us out with this forum have been advocating a rewrite of the GVG code for some time - keep the basic gameplay, rewrite it to enable mobile play.

As I understand it the lag was generally caused by the antiquated code used - that can be fixed, so fix it!

GBG is quite frankly a pain, too time consuming for leaders, rankings are silly, and it's all about the rewards making greed the primary fucus - Give me GVG anyday!

 

[Agent327]

It can be possible, there are exceptions to the rule, hence addition of the word "usually".

That would be a plausible explanation had you used the word "usually" in your statement. You didn't.

BUT if Inno use these forums or the opinions of the majority of regular contributors to the forum as a benchmark for the opinions of those who actually play the game it explains some of the strange decisions they've made recently.

Again you insinuate that players visiting the forum do not "actually" play the game. Only you and your guildmembers do.

For example, why is there nothing new in SAV (let's be honest, it's merely a regurgitation of SAM/SAAB), why is the Floating Noob Catcher such a poor GB, exactly how is it possible the game allows you to complete all the research in SAV in less than 2 weeks?

Isn't that a question you should ask a dev? Why ask me? I am the one you are convinced does not play or know the game.

There has been a whole year to engage with people like Mooing Cat, Penguin Pat and the many others who are genuinely good at this game - to capture their ideas and thoughts on how they can make it less stale whilst not destroying the game mechanics, playability and enjoyment.

Which brings back the earlier question, what is "being good at the game" according to you.

I've had a quick look at the majority of contributors who have shown negativity towards GVG on here, (the non authorised third party site can have some uses) and if I'm to be honest, it's clear there are no examples there.

Examples of what? Why not tell us what those stats learned you? What makes it thart you are "good at the game" and forum posters, including me, not?

GVG is one of the more interesting tactical aspects of the game, (unlike GBG it doesn't have one set formula you can follow to dominate the map). Sadly living in Scotland I can only make recalc a couple of times a week, but I look forward to them, it's a great chance to meet up with around a 3rd of the guild on any given night and contribute as a team to the guild's success whilst having a laugh.

FoE would be a lot poorer place without it, and if more people had access to it, took the time to learn about the tactics, they may enjoy the game more.

GvG has not one set formula you can follow to dominate the map?

Would this qualify?



Contrary to you, I think the people that have access to GvG know the tactics and that is the reason they do not enjoy it, so they have chosen for other parts of the game they do enjoy.

 

[r21r]

Would this qualify?

can this be done with every LZ in a map ?

if yes, shouldn't this be changed .. ?

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

One: GvG needs to be expanded. It's been totally abandoned, yet it's the most important fixture of the game in regards to guilds.

Why would Inno expand a part of the game with such a low participation rate? It was 5% of active players 5+ years ago when there was little else to do. Even putting aside the real reason it was "abandoned", it just doesn't get the amount of player participation necessary to make economic sense to spend any money/time/effort on improving it. And that participation rate was back before the game left it behind, it's probably much lower now.

Two: There needs to be a basic level of equality established in terms of promotionals/in game bonuses. I've wanted to purchase diamonds so I can finish expanding and build in better GvG capability but with the last several expansions costing so many diamonds, it's hard for someone like me, a college student, to buy enough as they are.

It's a F2P game, this is not a problem with the game basics.

Three: Inno needs to stop hurting other players as they try to reduce cheating. The 2000 RQ ban limit (yes I know it's not GvG) is so low and such a widespread tariff on players at all levels, that it more effectively hurts every day players who are willing to spend more time on the game (which is what Inno should want) instead of targeting macros specifically.

A) It was to stop an "exploit", not cheating as such.
B) It is not a tariff on players at all levels, because most players are not affected by it. And that last part is directly from Inno, who has the data to know.

Four: (again not GvG) lately there has been a lot of issues with GbG matchmaking and the MMR. We have seen two-three guilds for every season for like the past 3+ months. It's become stale.

This is the only one of your "basic game problems" that is actually valid, but...

When GbG came out, it was a great addition that gave mobile players a taste of multi-guild competition. It should not have caused the abandonment of other parts of the game.

If you're talking about the abandonment of GvG, that happened years before there was even a hint of GE, let alone GBG. GBG did not cause Inno to abandon any other part of the game.

 

[r21r]

GBG did not cause Inno to abandon any other part of the game.

i doubt as they did on questing , but anyway.

 

[Agent327]

can this be done with every LZ in a map ?

You know it can be done

 

[Taeshire]

can this be done with every LZ in a map ?

if yes, shouldn't this be changed .. ?

No, it doesn't qualify - it's not controlling a map, it's merely babysitting a small part that no-one else wants.