BpTexas
New Member
Yes, and with each level, you get more Guild Prestige
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Please rework the calculation for ranking
- Thread starter o LJ o
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- ranking system
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
25. Just for reference, my city on Vingrid has 950 Prestige from being a level 38 guild. Yet I have 5,224 Prestige. And I only have 3 FE tiles in GvG and only captured one sector in the last GBG round (in Copper league). So even with minimal GvG/GBG activity, my guild level accounts for less than 20% of my Prestige. And I get almost no benefits from the guild level. Of the guild level bonuses, only the 4 FP I get daily is of any use at all, and it is a drop in the bucket to my city's daily FP production. Reduction in coin/supply building costs? Worthless. I only use Build menu buildings to satisfy quest requirements, and I have hundreds of millions of coins/supplies to spare. Reduction in troop healing/training times? Worthless. I never use barracks except to activate Traz. And I have plenty of units to switch out for wounded ones all day long, if necessary. Support pool? Please. That's worthless to everyone. Support Pool is one of the most outdated mechanics of FoE. And lastly, Prestige? The only effect of Prestige is on guild ranking. And who cares? Guild ranking gives you nothing but bragging rights over everyone else that cares about guild ranking...which is almost no one (relatively speaking).
Robbenn
Member
Are you ever gonna realize that you have a very narrow perspective over the game because your limited playstyle simply does not make use of all the tools you have at your disposal?
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
So you're disagreeing with my point about guild level being a very minor part of the ranking formula? Cause that was my point. And whatever my current playstyle is doesn't negate that fact. In fact, my current playstyle has absolutely no effect on the ranking formula. Apparently you disagree...or am I missing your point? What is your point, after all? Just to slam my current playstyle because it doesn't measure up to your standards (whatever they are)? Seriously, do we all have to spend every minute of every day doing every single thing that FoE offers in order to earn the right to have a say? Because that's the impression that you and a few others are giving when you make inane comments like this. (Incidentally, I emphasize the fact that how I play now is my current playstyle because I have played several different ways over the 6+ years I've been playing this game. Which means that I actually have a much broader perspective than you do.)
Now, disprove my point about guild level, I dare you. Or disprove my other points, if you can. I'll wait. (No, I won't, but go ahead anyway.)
Algona
Well-Known Member
Heh. JBG was a mod for over a year and as such read every post.
Additionally, JBG had a previous forum account that dates back to a year before you joined the forums and had thousands of posts under that name.
You can't read and post here daily without learning most if not all aspects of the game and the opinions and reasons for and against most strategies and variants and techniques of the game.
Folks who post daily learn the game quickly, because every time they are wrong someone will point it out.
JBG is right regarding Prestige Guild Level being minor compared to the potential Prestige from GBG and GvG.
Potential Prestige from GBG is 18,000. From GvG is more. From Guild Level? 2,500.
It doesn't take a SAV player to know that, just a savvy player.
Iggy112
Member
Any chance we could have a sortable separate rankings for GVG, GBG, GE and overall efforts? For mobile players, GvG influence just nullifies looking at the overall rankings. Having separate leader tables would allow both desktop and mobile folks the ability to look at what interests them. Just a thought!
Brunenjii
Member
I'm good with the balance of guild scoring between Level/GE/GBG/GvG.
GvG is the only aspect that doesn't give personal rewards (not counting personal ranking points). So why shouldn't it give the most prestige?
GE gives personal rewards with each encounter. More if you've leveled your ToR. Some would argue that most, if not all, of the rewards are worthless. To some they are, but there are many players who appreciate those extra rewards.
GBG has a chance of a reward after each encounter. Some players earn thousands of FPs/goods per season. Plus the SoH fragments at the end can be a real boon to new and mid level players.
Guild level also has benefits. Again, some may find them worthless, but others appreciate them.
Yes not all players have access to GvG, but not all players in a guild have to participate for it to succeed (just like GBG). A handful of dedicated GvG players (with effort and diligence) can put you on the front page of the guild rankings.
GvG is the only aspect that doesn't give personal rewards (not counting personal ranking points). So why shouldn't it give the most prestige?
GE gives personal rewards with each encounter. More if you've leveled your ToR. Some would argue that most, if not all, of the rewards are worthless. To some they are, but there are many players who appreciate those extra rewards.
GBG has a chance of a reward after each encounter. Some players earn thousands of FPs/goods per season. Plus the SoH fragments at the end can be a real boon to new and mid level players.
Guild level also has benefits. Again, some may find them worthless, but others appreciate them.
Yes not all players have access to GvG, but not all players in a guild have to participate for it to succeed (just like GBG). A handful of dedicated GvG players (with effort and diligence) can put you on the front page of the guild rankings.
BpTexas
New Member
No one is slamming your style, but a guilds rank is based on everything available to any guild and player. While to you, healing/training times, are meaningless, to other players and guilds they mean a lot. I do find it unfortunate, that guilds with 1-3 "super players, can dominate many guild activities, and make that guild "strong".
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
This is a meaningless statement. A guild's rank is based on Prestige. Period. And Prestige comes from guild level, GvG territory held and GBG performance. Nothing else. Directly, at least. GE and buildings that produce Guild Power Points (crowns) contribute to guild level, so they contribute indirectly, but their tangible contribution to guild level is minimal at best. Events, Daily Challenges, Cultural Settlements and the new PvP Arena contribute nothing to guild ranking, except remotely through their effect on a player's ability to succeed in GvG and GBG.
UnStopaBull
Member
The point of the OP was that a guild can literally dominate GE and GBG yet if they don’t play GVG they are barely going to crack top 20. While from what I’ve seen , much weaker guilds who only focus on GVG are ranked higher. Inno places way too much rank value on GvG.
Our guild doesn’t actively participate in gvg for a couple reasons. 1. It pretty much requires you to play on PC , seems odd that rankings favors this 2. It pretty much requires players be on at reset each day (great fun for people with lives outside of FoE) 3. The goods some GvG eras require (when you have many sectors ) takes away goods from GBG (where ACTUAL prizes are won).
Ranking mean nothing in this game at this point , which is sad . Almost Every aspect of the game INNO has made some very poor choices in design and execution…IMO at least.
Our guild doesn’t actively participate in gvg for a couple reasons. 1. It pretty much requires you to play on PC , seems odd that rankings favors this 2. It pretty much requires players be on at reset each day (great fun for people with lives outside of FoE) 3. The goods some GvG eras require (when you have many sectors ) takes away goods from GBG (where ACTUAL prizes are won).
Ranking mean nothing in this game at this point , which is sad . Almost Every aspect of the game INNO has made some very poor choices in design and execution…IMO at least.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
Like most things in FOE the importance of many features is in the eye of the beholder. It makes perfect sense that GVG matters so much to ranking because that was the portion of the game that was designed to impact a guild's level and rankings when it was introduced. As others have posted in this thread simply because they've added in other elements of the game doesn't mean that those elements should be equal with GVG in impact on guild level or ranking. As already noted GBG you get personal rewards (and if that 'takes' away goods from GBG then the reward for GBG is clearly those personal rewards).
It's easy to say something was poorly designed when you look at where a game ended up after multiple years if you don't bother to consider that the game dynamic has changed greatly from where it began and that unless they see a distinct benefit to changing something they'll leave it the way it is currently. Less work, less chance of bugs, and less balancing to do which means less time (and money) spent on it. What exactly would changing the formula do for Inno? I can see how those that choose not to participate in GVG but still want their guild to be top ranked would get out of such a change but I don't see the benefit to Inno. I can see a downside for them as if you remove GVG impact on ranking that is one less reason to continue to play it which could drive away players.
At the end of the day if you want your guild to be higher ranked you'll have to spend some time on GVG.
It's easy to say something was poorly designed when you look at where a game ended up after multiple years if you don't bother to consider that the game dynamic has changed greatly from where it began and that unless they see a distinct benefit to changing something they'll leave it the way it is currently. Less work, less chance of bugs, and less balancing to do which means less time (and money) spent on it. What exactly would changing the formula do for Inno? I can see how those that choose not to participate in GVG but still want their guild to be top ranked would get out of such a change but I don't see the benefit to Inno. I can see a downside for them as if you remove GVG impact on ranking that is one less reason to continue to play it which could drive away players.
At the end of the day if you want your guild to be higher ranked you'll have to spend some time on GVG.
UnStopaBull
Member
I don’t care what our guild is ranked , we know our plan and it doesnt include gvg. Again the reason gvg rank is so wrong is because of the PC/Mobile factor. If you think it’s fair that mobile players have a distinct disadvantage on individual rank then that tells me you don’t care about a reasonably balanced ranking system. I’ve played for over 4 years , been # 1 for this past year but had at the very least a top 2 world city yet was ranked 4+ for the years before that because I did not fight gvg much, to me that is an issue. GBG (mobile) allowed the powerful city ive built to matter a bit so my 2500/1300 attack actually matters, although with Siege Camp help even a terrible fighter could get more battles (rank points) if in the right guild (situation) which is also a major flaw IMO.
really good online games do ranking much better than inno and it’s too bad bc a game this big shouldn’t have ranking that are pretty much a joke.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
No what it tells you is that I simply disagree with you. Your responses indicate that you do indeed 'care' about the ranking system or you wouldn't be posting that it was unfair.
The ranking system is fair because this may come as a shocker to you but you CAN actually play the game on something other than a mobile device. You choose not to do so while I don't play on a mobile device because I choose not to do so. I also notice that you fail to respond that GVG (and holding lots of territory in GVG does cost quite a bit of goods if you face someone who can attack you or if you have territory and need to counter siege someone) about the benefits of the personal rewards versus the guild rewards in GVG. The value in GVG is in fact the ranking system advantage and guild level growth. The cost of GBG in goods is high to keep attrition low while you reap massive personal rewards so yes GVG should have more impact on the guild ranking.
The ranking system is fair because this may come as a shocker to you but you CAN actually play the game on something other than a mobile device. You choose not to do so while I don't play on a mobile device because I choose not to do so. I also notice that you fail to respond that GVG (and holding lots of territory in GVG does cost quite a bit of goods if you face someone who can attack you or if you have territory and need to counter siege someone) about the benefits of the personal rewards versus the guild rewards in GVG. The value in GVG is in fact the ranking system advantage and guild level growth. The cost of GBG in goods is high to keep attrition low while you reap massive personal rewards so yes GVG should have more impact on the guild ranking.
UnStopaBull
Member
It’s ok to disagree , but you are wrong . Gvg fights and rank were a problem way before GBG showed up. this game is mostly advertised as a city building game yet those that fight can gain crazy amounts of rank for very little effort. Here is another example of that . My arc is 181, to get to 181 it costs over 65K FPS , this took me maybe a week or two when I was playing hard. If you think the rank for leveling that arc 180 to 181 should be matched and passed, I don’t even know how many times, by a average player simply fighting just one day of GVG then you don’t understand equitable ranking dynamics.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
Your hilarious. Anyone who disagrees with you can't understand. And I will repeat you clearly CARE about the ranking because you are unhappy with how it doesn't seem to reflect what you spend your time on.
Also why exactly are you even mentioning your Arc in a thread that is discussing GUILD ranking?
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UnStopaBull
Member
thread is about poor guild rankings , leveling GBS Is a part of that too, one that as I stated is very under represented as well. your other post insinuated you had played so long and your opinion seemed to matter more because of it , my arc comment should also show I’ve also played along time , and likely much better than you have.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
Incorrect you inferred that. At no point in my post did I refer to how long i've been playing this game nor did I say anything about me being a better player than anyone else (the history of the game is in fact available to all players if you go back and read the announcements, spend time on youtube and do other research). YOUR posts however have dismissed everyone else's opinions that don't match yours as them not being able to 'understand' how a good ranking system is built. Nice attempt to make it seem like I've been doing what you've clearly been doing in this thread: dismissing everyone else's opinion that isn't yours while flatly stating that your time in game somehow makes your opinion much more valuable than anyone else's.
And just so we're clear here: Your opinion just happens to be what you want to spend your time on in this game should be how the ranking system for guilds should be weighted. You are more than welcome to that opinion but don't try pretend that the system is so flawed because it doesn't do what you want it to do. You built your city to take advantage of the rules that are in place which is perfectly fine........when it gives you an advantage. When it doesn't you come here and want the rules changed because you and your guild can't be bothered to deal with GVG.
Also, it's clear you have no answer regarding the point about GVG main advantage to do so is the boost it gives to guild ranking or even why Inno should change the system to benefit your play style and take away something from the ones that spend time on GVG. What's in it for them? You want the system changed then you'll need to provide motivation for them to spend the time and money on changing it rather than simply changing it because you don't think it's 'fair'. As I said no one makes you play only on mobile so the system is fair in that everyone has options. So how about you come back with some actual support for your opinion?
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UnStopaBull
Member
I’ve moved my rank 20m+ in one day many times , that is more than some who have played the game for years have earned in all their time playing (thats a problem). Im not saying this as the noob who can’t catch up to someone ahead of me, I’m saying the system is unfair as someone who is at the top. You can view it as me wanting something and in a way I guess it is. I want the game ive played for years to be better. Just like the OP. You say we can all just play on PC too..I say a game and it’s rank should not be highly dependent on the device one wishes to play. The fact that INNO has not taken any actions to address this is a joke. Why have ranks at all if its not done fairly?
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Leveling GBs plays no part in figuring guild rankings. They provide no Prestige, and none of them that I know of provide Guild Power Points, so they don't even directly contribute to guild level. And they are not owned by the guild, nor do they directly benefit anyone except the GB owner. Makes no sense to include them in the guild ranking points formula.
UnStopaBull
Member
Maybe you should read the title of the thread. Just because the OP was talking about guild ranks doesn’t mean Im not allowed to go a different direction about reworking calculations for rankings (guild or individual)