BigSpence4
Member
I1) Not everyone has room for a lot of Blacksmiths
2) you would need a whole city full just to cycle a lot of quest
3) see 1 and 2 again
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2000 Aborted quest limit per day
- Thread starter BigSpence4
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2) you would need a whole city full just to cycle a lot of quest
3) see 1 and 2 again
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
1) Where did I say that everybody had room for a lot of Blacksmiths?
2) No duh.
3) Read my post again (for comprehension this time). The player I was quoting made a completely false statement that I was correcting, with only the added comment that the impact of his post was tarnished by such a glaring error. I said nothing about the validity of his or anyone's statements about cycling quests.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
The number of RQ's you have done is not relevant. The number of aborts is.
Emberguard
Well-Known Member
One of the ages near the end of the game (Oceanic if I recall correctly) has a recurring quest for any 24 hr production. Player in a guild I was in at the time used blacksmiths for that in 3/4's of their Oceanic city. In the end they got tired of recurring quests and got rid of them, but if you really wanted to use blacksmiths for it then you do have a age where you'd have a lot of space available for it as long as you're not taking forever to get there and then have it taken up by event buildings
BigSpence4
Member
I did and my opinion of your post hasn't changed.
timrwild
Member
Sorry, meant Iron.
DevaCat
Well-Known Member
That’s what I suspected. Goats and butchers, quite large
BigSpence4
Member
Since there events all the time, cities are filling up with them. Some people save just enough space for a couple Blacksmiths for events and the rest of their city is packed tight.
Carolyn Quite Contrary
New Member
It appears the discussion of 2000 aborts has devolved into a blacksmith discussion. I would like to bring it back on point.
While I have no real objection to limiting the number of aborts (although I do think 2000 is far too low), the system is inherently unfair. Eras such as FE have only 5 aborts to complete a loop and Venus has 13 aborts to complete a loop. If INNO is going to do this, they need to make it fair for everyone. In its current state, it is not. Give each era the same number of recurring quests.
Quite frankly, the more unreasonable and/or ridiculous proclamations, rules, and game alternations such as this that INNO makes, the less willing I am to pull out my credit card. Not to mention it becomes a chore, not fun at all. Why play if I am not having fun?
While I have no real objection to limiting the number of aborts (although I do think 2000 is far too low), the system is inherently unfair. Eras such as FE have only 5 aborts to complete a loop and Venus has 13 aborts to complete a loop. If INNO is going to do this, they need to make it fair for everyone. In its current state, it is not. Give each era the same number of recurring quests.
Quite frankly, the more unreasonable and/or ridiculous proclamations, rules, and game alternations such as this that INNO makes, the less willing I am to pull out my credit card. Not to mention it becomes a chore, not fun at all. Why play if I am not having fun?
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timrwild
Member
Exactly. To be completely candid, this issue with aborts is the final straw, and I've quit playing. Big whoop, what does Inno care? TBH they don't care, but whining and complaining on a forum doesn't change anything, and in the past few weeks it's done nothing. The "exploit" they're trying to patch is clearly persistent in other areas of the game, e.g. GBG. They've alienated a ton of people over this either because they don't care, or because they want to move the game towards fighting and away from quests, which is a change I wholeheartedly disagree with. With the changes that have been made over the past year or so, I've finally had it.
So long, everybody. Give me a holler if Inno decides to change the abort limit or at least pretends to listen to our feedback.
lancerdually
New Member
I understand that Inno is within their rights to change anything they like, however, I'd like to urge Inno to reconsider this and find an alternative solution. The designers developed this GB, designed its bonuses and allowed the ability to use it as a perpetual motion machine in lower ages for years.
Will arc be next? Will you limit the amount of fp you can make per day in profit taking locks for your bonus? Will you implement changes in GBG rewards after everyone has invested so much in raising attack numbers? How can players have any sort of faith or sense of stability in spending money on the game if Inno can just change it any time they want? I fully understand that at times when running a business sometimes there is a need to change things and things evolve, however, I think this hard limit is not the answer. What message are you sending to us as players/customers? What perception do players now have of Inno and of investing anything substantial in ANY GB or the game?
There are always multiple ways to solve the same problem. I am extremely disappointed in this decision and it makes me question spending money or even playing this game or any other Inno game in the future.
Will arc be next? Will you limit the amount of fp you can make per day in profit taking locks for your bonus? Will you implement changes in GBG rewards after everyone has invested so much in raising attack numbers? How can players have any sort of faith or sense of stability in spending money on the game if Inno can just change it any time they want? I fully understand that at times when running a business sometimes there is a need to change things and things evolve, however, I think this hard limit is not the answer. What message are you sending to us as players/customers? What perception do players now have of Inno and of investing anything substantial in ANY GB or the game?
There are always multiple ways to solve the same problem. I am extremely disappointed in this decision and it makes me question spending money or even playing this game or any other Inno game in the future.
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Oh get serious. Nothing could be more of a "chore" than RQ looping through over 2000 aborts.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
What are your ideas to solve the problem? There have been many made by others on this thread, none which seem to fully address the issues.
Dominator - X
Well-Known Member
How can we reach you since you quit?
timrwild
Member
There have been many mentions of how the abort limit doesn't actually solve the problem. If the goal is to stop people from getting almost unlimited goods FP, then GBG definitely needs to be looked at. I think @CDmark ran the numbers on GBG and found that you can get more there than you can with RQs. Stopping people from "exploiting" RQs (Ok, seriously, can someone please post a link to where Inno explicitly stated "exploits" as the reason for the 2000 abort limit?????) just moves people from one exploit to another. There's no way to define "exploit" that limits the problem to RQs. Since there are other exploits in the game, it's simply unfair to clamp down on just one of them, and in doing so, Inno has not "fully addressed the issue."
Secondly, I would contend that in the same breath as naming "exploits" to be the reason, Inno also stated that there were issues with their servers that they were addressing with changes to RQs. I've noted multiple times that, in the kindest possible way, much of the code for this game is absolute crap. If they're trying to balance server loads, there are countless other changes they could make that would make the game better for everyone instead of making the game insufferable for a small number of people. Again, since Inno hasn't officially stated anything about the 2000 abort limit, it's only logical to conclude that it is at least in part due to server issues, and those would be much better addressed in other ways.
Another solution is to, instead of limiting the number of aborts each day, limit the number of completions you can do for each quest. Some are limited by the size of your city in certain ages (e.g. you can only fit so many Butchers in an Iron Age city, and you can only collect so much gold a day in the correct increments). Limiting the number of aborts forces you to plan meticulously to optimize everything properly to get in as many quest completions as possible. Since the "Collect XXXX coin" isn't a quest that's being "exploited," don't count that against me when I skip it. There are obviously quests (mainly UBP) that account for most of the "exploiting." Cap the number of times you can complete that in a day instead of the number of aborts.
Change the 2000 abort limit for different ages. In Iron Age, there are a minimum of 7 quests to abort for a full loop back around to the UBP. In other ages, it's only 5 quests. Players are being punished more based on the era they're in. In Iron, you can do 285 quests, while in Industrial you can do 400. That's not cool.
Someone else mentioned other ways to make the current limit more palatable. Currently there's a hard reset at midnight. There was a suggestion made as to how that could efficiently (minimal server resources) be made into a rolling 2000 aborts. If I abort 2000 quests between 11PM and 12AM, the clock resets and I can abort another 2000 quests right away. However, a rolling time would keep me from aborting more than 2000 inside any given 24hr period.
To sum up, Inno has not fully addressed the issue. Maybe for now, but not long term. The burden should not be on us to fix the problem for Inno. This change is not fair, and we are trying to find ways to make the change less painful. This can be done by either making the flat 2000 abort limit more fair for people in different ages, raising it 4-6000 so that only bots are really affected, etc. The other solutions are ones that (possibly) fix the real problem (again, some official communication from Inno would be fantastic right about now) by resolving their server issues instead of just telling people they can only play the game so long each day. The 2000 abort limit is a poor solution to an even more poorly defined problem, and we're trying to redirect this "solution" to other areas that actually make sense when you take a wholistic look at the game.
timrwild
Member
That was mostly a joke. It's unreasonable to expect them to change anything. We all know they won't.
BigSpence4
Member
"
To provide some context, for transparency purposes, we have been collecting feedback on quest abort exploits, and trying to figure out a way to tackle this. This week, we moved forward with an update that sets a limit on Quest Aborts to prevent this exploit, and the impact it has on our servers."
This was in their statement. What exploit? Aborting Recurring quest has been a thing for many a years. I guess the exploit started after you aborted 2001 times? I really wish they would tell use what it was? All this does it hurt honest players with a limit and the limit effects players differently depending on the age you are in.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
They did tell us.
"To provide some context, for transparency purposes, we have been collecting feedback on quest abort exploits, and trying to figure out a way to tackle this. This week, we moved forward with an update that sets a limit on Quest Aborts to prevent this exploit, and the impact it has on our servers."
The problem is, no one likes what they said.
"To provide some context, for transparency purposes, we have been collecting feedback on quest abort exploits, and trying to figure out a way to tackle this. This week, we moved forward with an update that sets a limit on Quest Aborts to prevent this exploit, and the impact it has on our servers."
The problem is, no one likes what they said.
Lando6
Member
So I read this as two interconnected items, which I believe have been stated previously. Inno is trying to tackle the issue of "quest abort exploits" AND "the impact is has on [their] servers." I feel Inno's reasoning to install an abort limit is just only to solve the impact on their servers. You can still "exploit" the aborting part, but only until you reach 2000 aborts. So really, they only limited the amount of "exploiting" that can take place (insert your definition of "exploit" here). I'm assuming (just an assumption) the only reason why they did this is because it was the simplest solution and had the most efficient impact on freeing up server processing. What concerns me is how much of an impact did this change actually make? Also, under the assumption stated above, will Inno actually make significant efforts to halt the "quest abort exploits" (most have assumed bots) without altering/limiting a main style of gameplay?
Inno says they are all about respecting the players of this game, but the way this change was portrayed and the impact this has had on gameplay, I question the integrity of Inno. Please just shoot straight with us. I still won't like it, but I would much more respect Inno if they said something along the lines of: "We have some issues regarding the abort quest "exploits" that is having an impact on our servers. Right now the best way we can free up our servers is to limit aborts. We feel this is the best current action we can take to keep from overloading our servers and impacting lags for all players. Please understand that we are not trying to marginalize any particular style of gameplay. Thank you for your understanding."
In full disclosure, I do not hit the 2000 abort limit on a daily basis, so I am not saying this to "fight my own battle", but for the integrity and transparency of the game. No one likes to be jerked around and play a game in which rules or modifications change at a moments notice. I understand that I signed up for this game in full knowledge of the terms and conditions (like anyone really reads that fine print anyways), and that Inno has the right to change the game however they see fit. I also understand they are in the middle of a teeter totter. On the one side is player contentment and the other is revenue. It's a poor analogy, but I think you get the point. I also understand that this change really only affects about 10-15% of the player community, but in my option, that segment of the player community are the ones I would much rather listen to that those who pop on to play once every couple of days. This change does not affect me that much, but I would rather raise my voice now, because the next awful (yes, I said it) change to come might just impact my game style.
Some have asked, "If you are objecting to Inno's change, then propose something different." So, I'm not an IT guy, nor do I have insight into the actual details as to why Inno made their change." As any problem solver would say, I need to see all the issues at hand before I can solve the problem. Inno's statement is vague at best, and I feel they did that on purpose as to not get backed into a corner. I don't feel I have enough "data" to make a qualified recommendation, but some of the IT ideas that have been suggested (having the aborts stored locally rather than on servers) seem to be decent ideas, but is Inno willing to invest the amount of time and energy it takes to really fix the "exploits" at hand. Sorry for the long post, keep up the good work, and Forge On!
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