[Guide] Dulahan's guidelines to lvl 80 arc rush (and beyond), starting from bronze age

[DeletedUser33241]

On the LoA vs RAH topic. I did similar calculations than the ones Homeflow did (but with a more diversified amount of scenarios such as different GB levels and amount of alchemist and other supply sources). If I recall right, RAH + LoA was superior in some cases (basically, a large amount of alchemists).

But I didn't build it for the same reason Homeflow mentioned: it wasn't that much better, and eventually your city will have less and less alchemists, so RAH will be a inefficient use of space.

PS: Homeflow, you should spent some time redesigning your city layout. It can be much much better. Use this as a reference.

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?attachments/randy_current_bp-png.3682/

Well, I have gone to the left with my expansions and it wont be that easy to change my city I think.
But I try

 

[DeletedUser29218]

Well, I have gone to the left with my expansions and it wont be that easy to change my city I think.
But I try

I was mostly refering to the position of GBs (look how many roads are required in Randy's city to connect so many big buildings). There are other things like the two 3x3 next to your town hall, if you move them somewhere else and replace those with alchemists you could have 4 of them (as you wouldn't need the horitzontal road in the bottom right corner of your city). Ideally you should have a single avenue and all the streets perpendicular to that avenue.

I know it is hard to do it perfectly, but there is definitely room for improvement there.

 

[Snarko]

Well, I have gone to the left with my expansions and it wont be that easy to change my city I think.
But I try

That does complicate things and limit you but you can make it more efficient. Your larger buildings are touched by so many road pieces.

Here's my city. Every building larger than 3x3 is connected by exactly one piece of road except StM (4), Bountiful Cider Mill (2) and Town Hall (3). (I didn't expect to get a level 7 grand bridge, so I just threw it into the newest expansion. That's why that part looks so awkward.)

In another city I used the 1 road 3 large buildings + townhall trick (see the randy link) and have connected CdM, LoA, ToR, CF, black tower and a terrace farm using only two pieces of road.

 

[DeletedUser27184]

If I can, I always prefer RaH to LoA.

Here is my math:

1. I compare both buildings at level 10.
LoA -(10) - 40*145% - 42 spaces
RaH (10) - 75*200% - 25 spaces

2. The age - ME
In ME (my example city) - I had about around 40 hatters when I leveled my RaH:
Hatter - 3690 per day. Each hatter takes 9 spaces.

3. Lets compare a city in ME with 40 Hatters. 40 hatters is a reasonable amount for an HQSer.
With 40 hatters - LoA produce: 214020, while the RaH produce: 295200
So lets take off 2 hatters (to get the space for RaH0, and then with 38 hatters you produce through RaH: 280440

Therefore, RaH is better then LoA, including space reductions. The end result of RaH is about 30% higher then LoA.

4. Lets compare the values with 10 hatters with LoA vs. 8 hatters with RaH (for the same space):
LoA produces 53505. RaH produces: 59040.

Still RaH is preferable.

The cut point is around 7 hatters with LoA vs 5 hatters with RaH. Less hatters then that, you should go LoA.

TLDR
I would prefer RaH to LoA if my number of producing buildings are more then 7.

P.S.
Ya, RaH is higher era and harder to get. It is much easier to get the LoA.

 

[DeletedUser29218]

If I can, I always prefer RaH to LoA.

Here is my math:

..... (probably correct)

P.S.
Ya, RaH is higher era and harder to get. It is much easier to get the LoA.

Also requires more FPs until lvl 10.

 

[DeletedUser31498]

If I can, I always prefer RaH to LoA.

Here is my math:

1. I compare both buildings at level 10.
LoA -(10) - 40*145% - 42 spaces
RaH (10) - 75*200% - 25 spaces

2. The age - ME
In ME (my example city) - I had about around 40 hatters when I leveled my RaH:
Hatter - 3690 per day. Each hatter takes 9 spaces.

3. Lets compare a city in ME with 40 Hatters. 40 hatters is a reasonable amount for an HQSer.
With 40 hatters - LoA produce: 214020, while the RaH produce: 295200
So lets take off 2 hatters (to get the space for RaH0, and then with 38 hatters you produce through RaH: 280440

Therefore, RaH is better then LoA, including space reductions. The end result of RaH is about 30% higher then LoA.

4. Lets compare the values with 10 hatters with LoA vs. 8 hatters with RaH (for the same space):
LoA produces 53505. RaH produces: 59040.

Still RaH is preferable.

The cut point is around 7 hatters with LoA vs 5 hatters with RaH. Less hatters then that, you should go LoA.

TLDR
I would prefer RaH to LoA if my number of producing buildings are more then 7.

P.S.
Ya, RaH is higher era and harder to get. It is much easier to get the LoA.

Is there an era where HQS is no longer the main source of goods/FPs? Clearly RAH is better when you have an all HQs city, but I assume whether that makes it the better build depends on how long one intends to RQ for, and through what era?

 

[DeletedUser32824]

You guys are making me OCD about my city. I had left a space for alcatraz, but I'm 95% sure I'm not going to build one for a long while. Now I'm going to have this alcatraz sized hole in my city whenever I replace my houses with inno tower. Back to the drawing board.

By the way, does anyone use anything other than foe city planner to map out their city? I tried making a jerry rigged excel spreadsheet but it was terrible. Ideally I'd like a top down. Open to suggestions!

 

[DeletedUser31392]

Is there an era where HQS is no longer the main source of goods/FPs? Clearly RAH is better when you have an all HQs city, but I assume whether that makes it the better build depends on how long one intends to RQ for, and through what era?

Just going off what I read from higher advanced players, RQs is always a viable option to acquire Goods and FPs, but eventually it’s not so much the main source as it is a supplement to other GBs and special buildings.

The thing that become ineeficient for RQs is doing the “Collect X 24hr productions from (Y building)”. CA is the last age that only requires 2 such collections, Indy needs 4 and everything up to OF needs 5, and since the buildings get larger it’s not at all worth it. Supplies can be gained though other means, and the bulk of your RQs become “Spend X FPs”, “Collect X coins”, and UBQs. I would say the coins would be left on rotation to profit from the reward forms completing the Spend FPs and UBQs alternately (do a UBQ when short cycling unless you are strapped for resources)

That’s where the Arc/Chateau combo comes in play in later ages and why it’s important to get Arc to 80 fast and progressively work on Chateau while waiting for FP GBs to flip.

 

[DeletedUser31392]

On another note, I started a city 5 days ago to see if I could get Arc to 80 in under 200 days to test your Theory @HQS cant join forum .

Combining guild hopping with a field of 70 huts at the highest point, I have just finished prepping the first 2 EMA Techs. Working on upgrading my houses to cottages now and will be adding in as many Tanneries as possible, 155k coins will get me a decent amount until I can continue to hop around starting on Wednesday. I was able to rush to Smithery in a few short hours after starting the city last Wednesday. EMA in under a week is a record for me, but at a cost of coins. My next fp costs 7900 coins lol.

I have contacts in this world that will help me raise my Arc rather quick and can supply me with prints and goods for it as well as Chateau and Cape, and a friend is gifting goods for LoA and SMB. Should be able to get an Alchemist HQS farm running soon and then the real fun will begin.


Thank you for writing up this Guide HQS, I had been theorycrafting such an adventure for some time now, and seeing it all laid out in front of me has brought validity to it. Executing it will be fun, and I’ll be sure to update progress as time goes. And interesting note: this world stared about 20 days before my 1yr anniversary on my first world, so it will be neat to see the difference in progress at this time next year.

 

[DeletedUser29218]

Is there an era where HQS is no longer the main source of goods/FPs? Clearly RAH is better when you have an all HQs city, but I assume whether that makes it the better build depends on how long one intends to RQ for, and through what era?

For FPs, in Middle HMA stage (chapter 6) FPs from other sources outnumber FPs from RQs. But still, RQs are a big source of FPs and shouldn't be ignored. For goods I don't think so. Bear in mind this is my thread, not CR's thread. We do not leave HMA until the arc project is done.

According to my experience, there are several phases in RQs:

1- You just land in HMA. Produce 24h is the main quest because you don't have the FP nor the coins production to do many of the other quests. Supplies keep building up.

2- You are slowly getting some SoKs/SSWs and leveling StM & LoA, noticeably increasing your coins production (thus UBQs and gather coins). You are also lvling CF, vastly increasing the feeback UBQs. You start to eat up your supply pool.

3- As you keep lvling arc, spent FP quests become increasingly more important. This is specially true for lvls 50-60 onwards, when you start sniping for thousands of FPs. And when your arc reaches 80 it is a whole new world (at least in an stablished server), due to 80 club activities.
As a reference, I can easily trade 5-10k FPs/day, some days 20k+. I don't do quests from all of them, but if I did that would be up to 500 spent fp quests and a bunch of feedback ubqs. At this stage you don't care anymore about supplies, RAH or anything else for the matter (at least I know I don't).

4- As your overall FP production grows, you become increasinly more lazy. You'll do less and less quests. However, because you have a high CF you can still pump out goods in the hundreds/thousands per day if you need to.

On another note, I started a city 5 days ago to see if I could get Arc to 80 in under 200 days to test your Theory @HQS cant join forum .

I said lvl 60 in under 200 days . Lvl 80 is probably possible though (definitely possible with diamonds, might be a bit more difficult without). It is difficult to give a proper time stimation, but I did way too many mistakes because it was my first playthrough and I didn't have that many good references, namely:

-Building and lvling zeus because I didn't have enough knowledge of expeditions.
-Using the lvl 10 as a baseline for comparing GBs (this has no excuse, I'm ashamed of myself ). The consecuences of this were suboptimally lvling CF and Monte until lvl 10 as well as needlessly delaying StM and LoA (at first I didn't build them because lvling them all the way to 10 was extremely inefficient).
-Being overly conservative with continent map, missing a few expansions.
-Missjudging the impact of IT on terrace farms and city aiding
-Being terribly unlucky with last CF's BP, and too stuborn to purchase it with diamonds.
-Not having a good sense about the best moment to start the 10-->80 journey. I should have started earlier.

I also had some stuff outside of my control that set me back:
-Multiple work trips where I could not attend the game (and I hate playing in mobile).
- I lost >2k FPs with the bug Inno introduced when they changed oracle of delfy. And at the time that amount was very significant.

 

[DeletedUser31392]

For FPs, in Middle HMA stage (chapter 6) FPs from other sources outnumber FPs from RQs. But still, RQs are a big source of FPs and shouldn't be ignored. For goods I don't think so. Bear in mind this is my thread, not CR's thread. We do not leave HMA until the arc project is done.

According to my experience, there are several phases in RQs:

1- You just land in HMA. Produce 24h is the main quest because you don't have the FP nor the coins production to do many of the other quests. Supplies keep building up.

2- You are slowly getting some SoKs/SSWs and leveling StM & LoA, noticeably increasing your coins production (thus UBQs and gather coins). You are also lvling CF, vastly increasing the feeback UBQs. You start to eat up your supply pool.

3- As you keep lvling arc, spent FP quests become increasingly more important. This is specially true for lvls 50-60 onwards, when you start sniping for thousands of FPs. And when your arc reaches 80 it is a whole new world (at least in an stablished server), due to 80 club activities.
As a reference, I can easily trade 5-10k FPs/day, some days 20k+. I don't do quests from all of them, but if I did that would be up to 500 spent fp quests and a bunch of feedback ubqs. At this stage you don't care anymore about supplies, RAH or anything else for the matter (at least I know I don't).

4- As your overall FP production grows, you become increasinly more lazy. You'll do less and less quests. However, because you have a high CF you can still pump out goods in the hundreds/thousands per day if you need to.



I said lvl 60 in under 200 days . Lvl 80 is probably possible though (definitely possible with diamonds, might be a bit more difficult without). It is difficult to give a proper time stimation, but I did way too many mistakes because it was my first playthrough and I didn't have that many good references, namely:

-Building and lvling zeus because I didn't have enough knowledge of expeditions.
-Using the lvl 10 as a baseline for comparing GBs (this has no excuse, I'm ashamed of myself ). The consecuences of this were suboptimally lvling CF and Monte until lvl 10 as well as needlessly delaying StM and LoA (at first I didn't build them because lvling them all the way to 10 was extremely inefficient).
-Being overly conservative with continent map, missing a few expansions.
-Missjudging the impact of IT on terrace farms and city aiding
-Being terribly unlucky with last CF's BP, and too stuborn to purchase it with diamonds.
-Not having a good sense about the best moment to start the 10-->80 journey. I should have started earlier.

I also had some stuff outside of my control that set me back:
-Multiple work trips where I could not attend the game (and I hate playing in mobile).
- I lost >2k FPs with the bug Inno introduced when they changed oracle of delfy. And at the time that amount was very significant.

All good points to note, and given the year of experience and digging amongst the forums and wiki, as well as interactions with long time experienced players I feel I could make it happen. At least get very close lol. I made some similar mistakes in my first world, and have learned a lot about how to approach it more methodically this go around.

The only thing I’m worried about is this upcoming Spring Event being a giant flop, and the potential that Summer May go the same way preventing me from setting up a small field of SoKs. No spoilers from me, but if you are interested to know why check out Wikia and Beta.

And yes I will admit I have used a small portion of diamonds to kick start, but only on expansions and to purchase annAmpitheater which by my calculations can be my main source of happiness clear through HMA until an Inno is required. I am hoping to avoid spending any on Prints, but we’ll see how that goes down the road. I won’t however”r, use them to buy goods or fps, or for healing troops in GE. I have enough experience and time management to make GE work without spending diamonds to get through, save a few 5th turns for the end of lvl4 if I am unlucky. And all diamonds in my possession since before starting this challenge are from my 3 diamond farms and from my Main as I’m currently on strike from giving Inno any of my money until they rethink their business model and start making it worth an investment again (which I’m unsure if that will ever happen)

 

[DeletedUser33241]

I was mostly refering to the position of GBs (look how many roads are required in Randy's city to connect so many big buildings). There are other things like the two 3x3 next to your town hall, if you move them somewhere else and replace those with alchemists you could have 4 of them (as you wouldn't need the horitzontal road in the bottom right corner of your city). Ideally you should have a single avenue and all the streets perpendicular to that avenue.

I know it is hard to do it perfectly, but there is definitely room for improvement there.

I tried it, here's the result:

But I'm not happy with it..
1) the right street is only for one side of buildings (there will never be buildings on the other side because there are no expansions)
2) seems a bit like "hick hack" around the town hall
3) only 3 more alchemists than with my old town (70 vs 67 - got 1 more expansion)

any suggestions?

PS: should I post in another thread ?

 

[DeletedUser32824]

I would try to put buildings on the other side of your bottom road. Maybe put all the 3x3s on the left side of your city and then shoot alchemists all the way across the bottom. I think that would net you a couple more alchemists. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I can clarify

 

[DeletedUser31440]

@HQS cant join forum, was wondering if you could look something over for me. I'm starting to look at getting a high level Arc to lock in 1st on my Arc and decided to make a sheet showing me contributions that I would need to make to lock them in and the efficiency of the fp's used to lock versus what they're spending. Attached is a screen shot of the sheet and I'll explain the formulas for each column below. I'm not sure that I'm looking at the Owner Savings and 1st FP Efficiency fields correctly though. I'm using 1.82 for the Arc lock since I don't have any level 80 Arcs in the guild and I need to give some incentive most likely for the high Arc player to help me out.

Level - Self Explanatory? The level you are working on for the Arc.
Total fp's - The total number of fp's required for that level of the Arc.
1st Reward - The fp's rewarded for being the top contributor for that level of the Arc.
1st @ 1.82 - Amount of fp's for high Arc player would contribute

round(1st Reward x 1.82)​

1st Profit - Amount of fp's that the high level Arc player would gain

round(1st Reward x 1.9) - round(1st Reward x 1.9)​

Owner Contribution - Amount of fp's the Arc owner needs to contribute to lock the high Arc player in at 1st

if( 1st @ 1.82 >= ( Total fp's / 2 ) , 0 , Total fp's - ( 1st @ 1.82 x 2 ) )​

Remaining - Amount of fp's remaining for that Arc level after high Arc contribution and Owner contribution

Total fp's - 1st @ 1.82 - Owner Contribution​

Owner Savings - Amount of fp's the owner saves by having a high Arc contributor lock 1st

1st @ 1.82 - Owner Contribution​

1st FP Efficiency - How efficiently the owners fp's are being used

if ( Owner Contribution > 0 , Owner Savings / Owner Contribution , "infinite" )​

 

[DeletedUser31440]

@HQS cant join forum, disregard the above post. If you could take a look at this sheet instead, I think I got rid of any oddities that would effect it, but probably not. Most of the fields are protected, if there's one that is protected but should be editable let me know. Also if anyone has a workbook with all the different GB's for the total fp's for each level up to 80 (or whatever the highest you have), with the contribution rewards for each position 1-5 for those levels I could add a page for all the GB's on this tool.
https://tinyurl.com/y9t77s25

 

[DeletedUser29218]

I'll check when I have a bit more time, I still owe someone stuff.

 

[DeletedUser33241]

Just wanted to state here that I used this guide for my city and after a month when I started this project my arc is lvl 30 now

This is my first city in FOE and I started to play this game on 21.01.2018 =)

Thank you very much Dulahan! This guide is amazing!

 

[DeletedUser32973]

Just wanted to state here that I used this guide for my city and after a month when I started this project my arc is lvl 30 now

This is my first city in FOE and I started to play this game on 21.01.2018 =)

Thank you very much Dulahan! This guide is amazing!

I'm actually curious how you had the FP production at your stage to get an arc to lvl 30 in a month (looks like you're F2P too, I don't see a field of SoK or anything purchased with diamonds). That's pretty impressive. I think that's far beyond what this guide entails.

 

[DeletedUser33241]

Yeah, should've told you that I have a patron.
Got 50% FP for each level till lvl 30.
And now I have to pay it back through P1 and factor 1,8 instead of 1,85.

My FP production is at 96 FP / day now.

Did the complete GE everytime and got hundreds of FP (I think atm I got more than the average FP through TOR), got a few times FP chests in daily challenges and had luck with snipes ^^

Furthermore I did a few lucky FP swaps and nice people which gave me P5 in their high arcs for almost nothing.
That's why I have BP for 21 levels (the highest one is at 39) now.
That's more than enough for now because I will be able to get a lot of P3-5 with a lvl 50 arc for factor 1,85 and pay almost nothing for BP from then on.

I bought two starter packages at the very beginning and later the 100% more diamonds deal got me and I bought 4k for 20 Euro (yes, I'm from Germany ^^).
I used them for more expansions and the (un)lucky carnival event.
And when I'm lazy for a fifth try in GE (shame on me ^^).

 

[DeletedUser31308]

I said lvl 60 in under 200 days . Lvl 80 is probably possible though (definitely possible with diamonds, might be a bit more difficult without).

Definitely possible. For reference, I started on Y world the day it opened. As of today, we are 156 days into this world and I have a level 49 Arc. I believe I should easily get the last 30 levels in the next 44 days.

Edit: Obviously this did involve spending diamonds to get Arc/CF instead of buying goods (which are much more expensive on a new world), and a small field of SoKs from winter event. Still, my Arc is much less profitable from sniping as it would on a world with high level GBs all over. The #20 GB in this world is a level 20 Arc, so I'm far from being able to snipe sweet spots on many GBs for a while.