Feedback for the Guild Battlegrounds Update 2023

[Bosmang]

"(...) we have actually increased the amount of diamonds that players can obtain through this feature."

I beg to differ on this one as I usually take note of when and how many diamonds I'm getting in GBG and in this current stint I've noticed I'm getting less diamonds, comparatively.

@InnoGames could you please be more specific and elaborate on this matter?
Thank you.

 

[Orius Maximus]

Previously you needed 200 Fragments to build the old Statue of Honor / Great Elephant kits. Now you only need 100 fragments.

If they had kept it at needing 200 Fragments, then I would assume that would have meant a 1:1 ratio for conversion too.


For end of season rewards, you're now able to assemble 2 kits per end of season (assuming 1st in diamond) -VS- previously needing to complete 2 seasons to get a attachment piece / Statue of Honor kit, or 3 seasons to get a Great Elephant selection kit.

This and it's just now one set of fragments for each season rather than fragments for a main building and a chain piece. So the 2:1 conversion still works out. Had I suggested this, I would have suggested a 2:1 conversion myself.

My laziness paid off this time. I just left them because I didn't feel like deleting dozens of them one at a time. Now after Inno runs this script, they'll get converted over and any stack with an odd number will just have one left to dump.

 

[Orius Maximus]

.they explicitely said they are NOT working on matchmaking

They said they're not working on it NOW. They also said they're going to look at how guilds match up over the next few seasons. So yes, they are looking at it. Possibly they'll decide they like it and keep it the way it is unfortunately. But it makes sense for them to step back and see how these changes affect guild behavior and if it affects how the matchmaking works.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I beg to differ on this one as I usually take note of when and how many diamonds I'm getting in GBG and in this current stint I've noticed I'm getting less diamonds, comparatively.

@InnoGames could you please be more specific and elaborate on this matter?
Thank you.

Previously, we got an average of 1 diamond for every 4 encounters (in Diamond League). During the Beta test, players reported that the average payout did not change. However, based on 8156 encounters in live, the payout does seem to have dropped to approximately 1 diamond per each 5 encounters. It's too soon to say, for sure, because it's still a very small sample size.

 

[Vasilisa Premudraya]

As a leader in Xyr of a smaller diamond league guild I can say the changes are not good for anyone but the top few guilds. My guild had 38 members when the change started and we were ranked #13 by the old system so we know how to fight and can usually hold our own. This season has us paired with 2 of the top ranked guilds that have 80 members who now control the entire map and won't let anyone else even get a fight in. They built the most expensive buildings on every territory so some needed over 600 battles to win. For a smaller guild like mine that is impossible. We spent the ridiculous amount to build the base camp building and it was a total waste. They fill and flip even the tier 5 ring in a matter of minutes so farming is not an option anymore even around your base camp. I don't see much difference in fp rewards but there is a definate difference in diamonds. I don't mind the increase from 160 to 200 in battles needed but the 5-30% more battles given with every building has killed any chance of a smaller guild even being able to fight let alone compete. So yes the system allows for more battles with attrition raising slower but only for a few. My fighters have lost interest. The rest of us are just sitting on the sidelines. If INNO's goal was to get more people to participate this was an epic failure.

As a leader of one of the top 3 GBG guilds on F I can assure you that the changes are not good for top guilds either.

The reason those 2 guilds on your map built the most expensive buildings on every sector is not cause they love wasting their goods and diamonds (cause I’m guessing they might also be diamonding them), but because the current system that Inno designed forces them to. They are either competing with each other for VPs and 1st place, or competing with other top guilds in your world for top ranking, since VPs now mean so much. They can’t afford to let smaller guilds capture even Tier 5 sectors cause Inno is telling them that the point of the game is to hold as many sectors as possible (and get VPs) rather than let smaller guilds take them. And no, they are not enjoying it either. Especially as the VP competition is unfair since to win it you have to not just burn and capture the sector, but also immediately diamond those most expensive builds . So one of those top guilds on your map may be the stronger one but they’ll lose cause the other guild spends more actual money. Is that really a fair competition? I don’t think so.

This new system is terrible for all guilds in diamond.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Players and Guilds still have not found the ideal ways to play the new GbG. Though some guilds are doing way better than others at figuring out better methods.
But the best ideas will 'trickle down'... soon enough.
So far"
All Guilds need all players to work more on Treasury Goods making GBs. Guild that are pressing this are doing better than guilds failing to address this.
Most players need to increase Troop productions if they want to play GbG a lot. (particularly Titan Era players)
Top player who used to get huge numbers of fights now are forced to scale back. the middle players who used to not get a many are getting more.
Attrition used to be: do all you can to avoid. Now should be attrition rules. Guilds who can get players to use it up everyday, will succeed. Those that do not.. will fail.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

As a leader of one of the top 3 GBG guilds on F I can assure you that the changes are not good for top guilds either.

The reason those 2 guilds on your map built the most expensive buildings on every sector is not cause they love wasting their goods and diamonds (cause I’m guessing they might also be diamonding them), but because the current system that Inno designed forces them to. They are either competing with each other for VPs and 1st place, or competing with other top guilds in your world for top ranking, since VPs now mean so much. They can’t afford to let smaller guilds capture even Tier 5 sectors cause Inno is telling them that the point of the game is to hold as many sectors as possible (and get VPs) rather than let smaller guilds take them. And no, they are not enjoying it either. Especially as the VP competition is unfair since to win it you have to not just burn and capture the sector, but also immediately diamond those most expensive builds . So one of those top guilds on your map may be the stronger one but they’ll lose cause the other guild spends more actual money. Is that really a fair competition? I don’t think so.

This new system is terrible for all guilds in diamond.

A smarter strategy would be to let some of the smaller guilds have the outer sectors. They don't have a shot at the #1 spot anyway so why not let them absorb the attrition that your guild would use up on these less valuable sectors? As long as they are taking sectors from your opponent they are helping you.

 

[Ruanne]

Just responding to INNO BGB update, I think they missed 100 fights, alot of the sector we've been fighting take 320 fights, not the 220 INNO posted in their update

 

[Xenosaur]

GbG starts it's 5th year in FOE, in November 2023. That's less than a month from now - ie, real soon.

It's pretty clear that whatever they do, all contingents of people will never be happy. It's a thankless design/engineering job trying to make everyone happy, and make it fun. As a software architect, I'd call that impossible.

They listened to us for months, tried a few things we railed against (66% attrition rate cap comes to mind...) - and gave us a place to help in one of the longest forum page count topics in FoE history on what to do, and how to build the next one (I call GbG III, which is what we have now).

After ALL THAT - There was little confluence from US, or even unanimity on every important design point they have to consider.. SO they did what they THINK would work.

They're broad-brush (seemingly??) tending to as many interests/needs from all player community factions as robustly as they can, with of course, THEIR FINANCIAL priority mixed in.

They're continuously trying to balance the thankless job of arbitrating the fact that all player factions want different things from GbG (in any form). Let's decide what they did: Did Inno make GbG III vs GbG I, or II:

1) Less or more FUN?
2) Less or more costly - game resources OR personal financial resources ($$) or both?
3) Less or more exciting?
4) Less or more time invested for rewards (tangible or bragging rights)

OF value adds by other members via "edit":

@Pericles the Lion 5) Less or more appealing to new players that have no experience with GBG I or II?



If people try it and don't like it - they'll play it LESS, or not play it, and that will be the true test of GbG III design goals.

Keep your thoughts coming, though..

 

[Pericles the Lion]

^^ What he said plus one more bullet point...

5) Less or more appealing to new players that have no experience with GBG I or II?

 

[PJS299]

Just responding to INNO BGB update, I think they missed 100 fights, alot of the sector we've been fighting take 320 fights, not the 220 INNO posted in their update

There's buildings that increase the number of hits needed.

 

[Vasilisa Premudraya]

A smarter strategy would be to let some of the smaller guilds have the outer sectors. They don't have a shot at the #1 spot anyway so why not let them absorb the attrition that your guild would use up on these less valuable sectors? As long as they are taking sectors from your opponent they are helping you.

Except top guilds are also competing against OTHER top guilds not on their map for the championship… which is determined not just by the number of “wins” but also by the number of VPs. So no, if you’re a top guild who has active competitors, giving away outer sectors to other guilds is not a smarter strategy.

 

[Vasilisa Premudraya]

Your explantions today address NONE of the real problems with the system, mainly in the two area of matchups and rankings. Additonally, you did not address that wining is just a matter of which guild will spend the most goods and diamonds. Waiting for these bullding without expressing with diamonds is just so terrible. The whole idea of competition in your format is a total joke.

I really couldn’t agree more. There was a lot of feedback on this thread. None of it gets addressed except for the fragments of SOH/Elephants issue, which frankly is a rather minor one. What is the Beta server for, if not to iron out issues before launching it on live servers?

 

[Henry the 92nd]

with this latest change to GBG, I will only do GBG to get the Himeji rewards, that means it frees up more personal time to do other things -- like play with the new puppy, read a book, talk to people. so I guess that also means lot less time playing FoE, and lots less $$ wasted. Thanks, Inno !

 

[Strato The Drunk]

More venting of frustrations about this change.

I like being in smaller guilds, as do the rest of my guild mates, at least the GBG productive members. Our smaller guild has been successful in diamond league for years. Now we barely scrape by because we don't have enough members to be competitive. The productive members have been neutered. Of the productive members, we've agreed that we play the game less since this change. The incentive is gone. The rewards are cut to less than half because the we each now get about a third of the attacks per season. Diamonds aren't the only reward. The forge points were a huge advantage to grow your base. They are now only a third of what we used to earn in a season. Players that were incentivized to play GBG now get a pittance of forge points. Compared to those that put in minimum attacks all along the bonus is lacking. Where is the incentive to continue playing when bonuses are slashed due to the attacking caps?

We have had discussions between the top players in the guild and most have agreed that we log into the game about half as much as we used to play. Log in a couple times a day to collect from buildings, spend the loot, and log back off. Yes, we still get in our attacks to the cap, but that is done in a half hour in the morning and maybe another half hour in the evening. Other than that, you are done playing for the day.

I'm not going to a large guild. I'm not playing in the current guild like I used to play. Eventually and sadly, I'll delete the game when it starts becoming a burden to log in, collect, spend, log off while not being able to advance faster than other players.

And yes, I'm getting fewer diamonds per season. Why? Because I'm getting 1/3 of the attacks that I used to get. Pretty soon it will be 1/4 of the attacks because I'm losing interest in the game. After that, it goes to zero.

 

[Ruanne]

Second comment on the new GbG, seeing how they made all these changes why didn't they make changes to speed the game up, action is where a lot of gamers are moving too, slowing things down just make the game duller. Why can't they make it so injured troops don't show up in the Army menu?

 

[Just An Observer]

More venting of frustrations about this change.

I like being in smaller guilds, as do the rest of my guild mates, at least the GBG productive members. Our smaller guild has been successful in diamond league for years. Now we barely scrape by because we don't have enough members to be competitive. The productive members have been neutered. Of the productive members, we've agreed that we play the game less since this change. The incentive is gone. The rewards are cut to less than half because the we each now get about a third of the attacks per season. Diamonds aren't the only reward. The forge points were a huge advantage to grow your base. They are now only a third of what we used to earn in a season. Players that were incentivized to play GBG now get a pittance of forge points. Compared to those that put in minimum attacks all along the bonus is lacking. Where is the incentive to continue playing when bonuses are slashed due to the attacking caps?

We have had discussions between the top players in the guild and most have agreed that we log into the game about half as much as we used to play. Log in a couple times a day to collect from buildings, spend the loot, and log back off. Yes, we still get in our attacks to the cap, but that is done in a half hour in the morning and maybe another half hour in the evening. Other than that, you are done playing for the day.

I'm not going to a large guild. I'm not playing in the current guild like I used to play. Eventually and sadly, I'll delete the game when it starts becoming a burden to log in, collect, spend, log off while not being able to advance faster than other players.

And yes, I'm getting fewer diamonds per season. Why? Because I'm getting 1/3 of the attacks that I used to get. Pretty soon it will be 1/4 of the attacks because I'm losing interest in the game. After that, it goes to zero.

Play in a smaller guild and get smaller results. Play in a larger guild and get larger results. If you choose to play smallball, you will have to deal with the outcome from making that choice.

 

[UBERhelp1]

This new system is terrible for all guilds in diamond.

Is it? Or is it just terrible for guilds that won't adapt?

This current season is some of the most fun I've had in GBG for some time. It's actually competitive, we're having to strategize how we spend attrition on provinces, and the rewards are just fine. GBG is no longer a feature with as much depth as a kiddie pool. You can no longer just plop down siege camps and click autobattle over and over with no attrition gain. If you want a clicker game, go find something else.

 

[Coach Zuck]

Look folks, if you are unhappy with the game changes made, let your purse cast your vote.
Money speaks volumes.

yeah right now I'm spending buttloads of diamonds but I'm going to have a hard time buying any more.. 22k diamonds so far this season I sector rushes. But I still have 60k left so it'll be a while before they notice the spending drop if anyone else is like me and not willing to pay for this new crap. I really should save for event buildings but tbh I'm hoping so bad that they announce matchmaking changes before the 2nd championship that I figure I'll just burn what I've got and go back to s*mcity if they don't.

 

[Coach Zuck]

Is it? Or is it just terrible for guilds that won't adapt?
.

It's a CHAMPIONSHIP and the winner between the top few guilds will be based on who randomly got the easiest matches. Yes it sucks, nothing to adapt to. Pay attention.

They said they're not working on it NOW. They also said they're going to look at how guilds match up over the next few seasons. So yes, they are looking at it. Possibly they'll decide they like it and keep it the way it is unfortunately. But it makes sense for them to step back and see how these changes affect guild behavior and if it affects how the matchmaking works.

WORKING ON and PASSIVELY LOOKING AT COLLECTED DATA AND COMPLAINTS are two different things. Especially when you say "working on MATCHMAKING" where the word matchmaking in any game is commonly understood to mean the algorithm that causes different players or teams to get matched with each other. And don't give me this "looking at it is the start of working on it" crap because I'm "looking at it" as are everyone in this forum, everyone in the game is "looking at matchmaking" but we aren't making a damn change to it.