Halloween Event 2018 Feedback

[Salsuero]

This is the problem with progressively increasing the power and output of event prizes. People used to look forward to upgrading the Graveyard and other such buildings. It happened just once per year too. Now people who didn't play back then or have somehow forgotten think these buildings are garbage. It's kinda sad, really. The game evolution itself has people talking so negatively about buildings that other people used to see as a badge of accomplishment.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

This is the problem with progressively increasing the power and output of event prizes. People used to look forward to upgrading the Graveyard and other such buildings. It happened just once per year too. Now people who didn't play back then or have somehow forgotten think these buildings are garbage. It's kinda sad, really. The game evolution itself has people talking so negatively about buildings that other people used to see as a badge of accomplishment.

I was thinking the same thing as I was completing my last post. The fact that Inno buffed both the Haunted Tower and Mad Scientist's Lab to make them relevant again in the face of more recent event buildings is proof of that. I'm glad they're willing to buff buildings as needed to keep them relevant, but the ongoing creep in expectations and event building power is an unsustainable feedback loop. When a FP GB like HS needs to be leveled to 14 or 15 to compete with the FP per tile density of Event Buildings and they're continuing to increase in power, you can see the distorting effect on the overall resource / power distribution in the game.

 

[Agent327]

After ME, the MSL will give refined goods without the need for coins, supplies, or unrefined goods as inputs. It only requires 2 pop in all ages, another plus.

What makes you think you will need those?

The reason I say 'might be useful' is that I won't know if I'll need any special buildings to produce goods until I get to those ages. At 4x4, it's too large for just 2-3 FPs per day, so for now, since I don't need the goods, it will likely stay in inventory.

Why do you have this urge to answer when you just do not know? Saying "might be useful" still means you do not know, so you can hardly call it any help.

 

[DeletedUser]

What makes you think you will need those?



Why do you have this urge to answer when you just do not know? Saying "might be useful" still means you do not know, so you can hardly call it any help.

Well I know, so I will say that you generally will need various ways of producing refined goods in the higher eras, especially once you get past CE.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

@Salsuero @RazorbackPirate

Okay, I already admit I may be a bit harsh against the Graveyard, but that doesn't mean it's not an outdated building. Games have to slowly creep up, releasing better things over time. How else to the keep gamers interested, or get their money?

FPS games add new maps with new weapons. Strategy games add new units and maps. Cooking games add new recipes and equipment. Fishing games add new rods, lures, zones. Racing games add new cars, parts, tracks.

It's just what happens these days. What's the point in adding some new building for an event, if it's just going to be worse? That's not gonna get anyone interested, and it will have just wasted the devs and designers time creating. It has to be equal or better.

That doesn't mean that old things need to stay outdated and outclassed. Games constantly update old things (guns, units, etc) to rebalance the games to the new additions and keep the older stuff relevant.

Is that so bad? Yes, Inno is out to make money. So they will constantly power creep the events. They can also balance as well (ex: Mad Scientist Lab). They didn't even bother to release a new level to upgrade the Graveyard to.

Why can't the Graveyard get the same treatment? It wouldn't be the end of the game. Hell, if it got adjusted to be like the new historical event buildings and have a zombie horde wandering around the city, getting larger and larger with each upgrade, that would be unique and fun. Useful? No. I would definitely still place it because zombie horde. Why not have a boost that makes sense?

Yes, as it stands, it's not that great of a building or event prize. It's a huge building that only adds happiness. It's just how the game is. We all have limited space in our cities, and it's just too big for what little it offers.

This is all my opinion of course.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Why do you have this urge to answer when you just do not know? Saying "might be useful" still means you do not know, so you can hardly call it any help.

I absolutely know that MSL producing 15 refined goods per day without the need for coins, supplies, or unrefined goods as inputs and requiring just 2 pop in all ages, is valuable.

Whether I'll ever need it in my city or not only affects my personal 'perceived value'. No different than the Tribal Squares in my inventory. Just because I currently don't need them, does not diminish their value.

What makes you think you will need those?

In my specific case, I don't know. Hence the words 'might be'.

Now that you've sufficiently picked all the nits off my opinion about the updated Mad Scientist's Lab, why don't you share yours? The MSL ever going to see the outside of your inventory?

 

[RazorbackPirate]

@Salsuero @RazorbackPirate

Okay, I already admit I may be a bit harsh against the Graveyard, but that doesn't mean it's not an outdated building. Games have to slowly creep up, releasing better things over time. How else to the keep gamers interested, or get their money?

FPS games add new maps with new weapons. Strategy games add new units and maps. Cooking games add new recipes and equipment. Fishing games add new rods, lures, zones. Racing games add new cars, parts, tracks.

It's just what happens these days. What's the point in adding some new building for an event, if it's just going to be worse? That's not gonna get anyone interested, and it will have just wasted the devs and designers time creating. It has to be equal or better.

That doesn't mean that old things need to stay outdated and outclassed. Games constantly update old things (guns, units, etc) to rebalance the games to the new additions and keep the older stuff relevant.

Is that so bad? Yes, Inno is out to make money. So they will constantly power creep the events. They can also balance as well (ex: Mad Scientist Lab). They didn't even bother to release a new level to upgrade the Graveyard to.

Why can't the Graveyard get the same treatment? It wouldn't be the end of the game. Hell, if it got adjusted to be like the new historical event buildings and have a zombie horde wandering around the city, getting larger and larger with each upgrade, that would be unique and fun. Useful? No. I would definitely still place it because zombie horde. Why not have a boost that makes sense?

Yes, as it stands, it's not that great of a building or event prize. It's a huge building that only adds happiness. It's just how the game is. We all have limited space in our cities, and it's just too big for what little it offers.

This is all my opinion of course.

If you go back an re-read all of my posts, you'll see I agree with you in your opinion of the graveyard, the only thing I took issue with was your assertion that it was the main prize, which once explained, you agreed was made without a full understanding of the event.

I also think it's unfortunate that without some sort of buff, it's unlikely that any version of the graveyard will ever come out of inventory. A Zombie Horde upgrade would at least make it fun to put down seasonally, but not as it stands.

 

[DeletedUser36572]

@Salsuero I agree, they are garbage. Avatars and achievements have no value whatsoever, except for looks.

Which is exactly what the Graveyard is. Difference is, it takes up a giant space in your city for that garbage, while avatars and achievements take up no space whatsoever.

Sure, Graveyard gives happiness too, but that's it. Way too big for what it offers. So, like I said, build it for looks. Still a disappointment to me though. Which sucks, cause it looks so cool. It should have gotten some sort of update. Something else added besides it's happiness.

Just my opinion of course. I just wish it was better.

Collectables always have value to those who collect, and looks serve a purpose.
Perhaps your expectations of Holiday decorations are a bit too high.

If you happen to stop by, the bowl of leaves, acorns, pine cones, cinnamon sticks, and dried orange slices on the dinning room table aren't there to eat.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

@BlackSand the Sly

Perhaps indeed. But maybe not.

I have the upgraded Maypole. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also increases gold coins earned. Not great, but useful for a 3x3. It also upgrades in size, changing looks and getting better.

I have the Tiger's Den. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also adds to city defense. Not great, but useful for a 3x3.

I have the Pond of Fall. Looks nice, adds happiness but also city defense. Not great, but useful for a 4x3.

I am not beyond using cultural buildings that I like, as long as they aren't just happiness for a massive footprint. I really like the looks of the Graveyard. I do. But it is so big in it's final form, for only happiness, that it's just outclassed.

A small boost to something, a cool wandering Zombie horde, or something. It's just too big for the small benefits it offers. At least to use it.

I'll win it, and it will stay in my inventory. Part of my collection, just not on display. They also didn't bother to release a new upgrade for it, like the Cider Mill. That has more than just me disappointed.

At least that is justified (maybe). The devs have been crazy busy with all the events they do and their work on HTML5, that maybe they didn't have time? Still, a bummer.

 

[DeletedUser36572]

@BlackSand the Sly

Perhaps indeed. But maybe not.

I have the upgraded Maypole. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also increases gold coins earned. Not great, but useful for a 3x3. It also upgrades in size, changing looks and getting better.

I have the Tiger's Den. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also adds to city defense. Not great, but useful for a 3x3.

I have the Pond of Fall. Looks nice, adds happiness but also city defense. Not great, but useful for a 4x3.

I am not beyond using cultural buildings that I like, as long as they aren't just happiness for a massive footprint. I really like the looks of the Graveyard. I do. But it is so big in it's final form, for only happiness, that it's just outclassed.

A small boost to something, a cool wandering Zombie horde, or something. It's just too big for the small benefits it offers. At least to use it.

I'll win it, and it will stay in my inventory. Part of my collection, just not on display. They also didn't bother to release a new upgrade for it, like the Cider Mill. That has more than just me disappointed.

At least that is justified (maybe). The devs have been crazy busy with all the events they do and their work on HTML5, that maybe they didn't have time? Still, a bummer.

Yeah, I read the thread, and understand the issues.
Now it may be more fun if the developers came up with wandering zombies hordes.

I mean ditch the graveyard angst and let's see what happens when zombies (generated automatically) wander into town from the map.
Fight them off with your armies, while they eat your population and destroy buildings.

Uh ... Maybe, I shouldn't give them any ideas.

 

[Salsuero]

Okay, I already admit I may be a bit harsh against the Graveyard, but that doesn't mean it's not an outdated building. Games have to slowly creep up, releasing better things over time. How else to the keep gamers interested, or get their money?

I never said you were technically wrong... I said it's a problem. And it's disappointing.

I have the upgraded Maypole. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also increases gold coins earned. Not great, but useful for a 3x3. It also upgrades in size, changing looks and getting better.

Funny thing about perspective. I think the Maypole is useless. But that's the difference in playstyle talking. I have no use for it whatsoever.

I have the Tiger's Den. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also adds to city defense. Not great, but useful for a 3x3.

Also not something I would ever build. Doesn't add anything to my town.

I have the Pond of Fall. Looks nice, adds happiness but also city defense. Not great, but useful for a 4x3.

This is becoming a recurring theme.

I am not beyond using cultural buildings that I like, as long as they aren't just happiness for a massive footprint. I really like the looks of the Graveyard. I do. But it is so big in it's final form, for only happiness, that it's just outclassed.

I agree. I don't need it at all. But I like how it looks a lot. I'll probably store it at some point, but not until I find a compelling reason to put something else in its place. So far, I haven't found one... so it stays.

A small boost to something, a cool wandering Zombie horde, or something.

I could get behind an animation buff. I wouldn't be upset with some sort of boost buff either, but it doesn't mean I'll keep it either... unless we're talking forge points or something ridiculous.

I'll win it, and it will stay in my inventory. Part of my collection, just not on display.

I actually have a regular Graveyard in my inventory as they gave us a new one last year and I already had one.

At least that is justified (maybe). The devs have been crazy busy with all the events they do and their work on HTML5, that maybe they didn't have time? Still, a bummer.

Honestly, I just think they don't find a need to treat everything exactly the same in this game. They upgrade some old things, release some new things, and make it so people who don't have some old things can get those things without changing them much at all. Sometimes you might just leave things the same if you don't feel they "need" fixing. I can't speak for them specifically, but it's just a theory worth no more than the next guy's.

 

[DeletedUser36190]

It would be really cool if some of the prizes included expansions.

 

[DeletedUser8428]

It would be really cool if some of the prizes included expansions.

? For a Halloween event? Space is the most highly valued commodity in the game .. this event is hardly significant enough to warrant giving away the game .

 

[Salsuero]

It would be really cool if some of the prizes included expansions.

I disagree. That would unbalance the game to such a degree that we might literally see Anwar emerge from the Necropolis just to scold the developers.

 

[Agent327]

Well I know, so I will say that you generally will need various ways of producing refined goods in the higher eras, especially once you get past CE.

And you can not cover those "various ways" with other event buildings like the Indian Palace set, Cherry garden set, the ToI, the Ship and/or the bridge? They don't need coins, supplies, or unrefined goods as inputs either. Also you can do RQ's.

Now that you've sufficiently picked all the nits off my opinion about the updated Mad Scientist's Lab, why don't you share yours? The MSL ever going to see the outside of your inventory?

One already has. Second one will when VF2 is opened. Filling the space with SoK's I can't get motivated, wouldn't be smart, so at least MLS will bring extra fp's. Also it helps with the "productions from your age" quests.

 

[Agent327]

I have the upgraded Maypole. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also increases gold coins earned. Not great, but useful for a 3x3. It also upgrades in size, changing looks and getting better.

I have the Tiger's Den. Looks nice, had animations, adds happiness, but also adds to city defense. Not great, but useful for a 3x3.

I have the Pond of Fall. Looks nice, adds happiness but also city defense. Not great, but useful for a 4x3.

I am not beyond using cultural buildings that I like, as long as they aren't just happiness for a massive footprint. I really like the looks of the Graveyard. I do. But it is so big in it's final form, for only happiness, that it's just outclassed.

Same goes for the buildings you now label as 'looks nice'. For the happiness they bring their footprint is to big as well. All happiness you need you can get from GB's and sets. No reason to place extra buildings for happiness.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

Yes Agent, that was exactly my point. The Graveyard is disappointing because it only adds happiness and becomes a massive 7x3 footprint. Hence my comments on it being garbage, and that it should get an update, like the Mad Scientist Lab.

The other buildings I listed (Maypole, Tigers Den, etc) aren't great either because they add happiness, but they also add something else. No matter how small, they still add a boost to another city aspect. And, they're less than half the size.

 

[DeletedUser]

And you can not cover those "various ways" with other event buildings like the Indian Palace set, Cherry garden set, the ToI, the Ship and/or the bridge? They don't need coins, supplies, or unrefined goods as inputs either. Also you can do RQ's.

I have the Ship and the ToI. And I think I may have the Bridge in one city, maybe two. But I don't do most sets. I believe the King/Queen Statues with Garden Ruins is about the only one I bother with. And you can never have enough current age goods producers in higher ages. IMHO

 

[DeletedUser31592]

I find this debate quite comical. Mostly among newer players who joined the game once it became ridiculously easy with events every day and Daily Challenges to give you even more prizes. When the Graveyard was introduced (before I started playing), it was valued- there weren't fancy buildings that gave off happiness- mostly the Hagia and FoD- and they were capped at level 10. When I started playing, before the Arc and power leveling, the Graveyard was still highly regarded because happiness was still an issue for most players. In the last two years, its value has gone down significantly. Not because it is a bad building but because Inno keeps inundating us with fancy overpowered buildings on a monthly basis.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

The Graveyard lost its value because it only adds happiness. Inno Games eventually released the Alcatraz, which is a huge happiness GB, and then the Arc offered up power leveling.

On top of that, plenty of these special buildings and sets offer happiness as well (lvl 2 Cherry Blossom set for ex). Happiness is just incredibly easy to come by now, so a massive 7x3 adding only happiness just isn't good.

For a special event building that has been around so long, and is a badge if pride for players that own it, it should get some love from Inno. An update to bring it into the modern game.

Something to make it worth the massive space it takes up. You guys who played and got it years ago can sit there and say 'I remember when...' and 'newer players just expect...' all you want, but that won't change the facts.

A building that is as large as the graveyard and only adds happiness isn't worth putting into a city, unless it's for looks, or if you're brand new and desperately need the happiness (respectable, but the Graveyard still gets outclassed, fast). I highly doubt any long term players have it in their city because they need the happiness.

I've read these forums. Happiness is a joke in this game. It's why the Hagia Sophia is crapped on so often, because no one cares about it's happiness. Or the other GBs that offer happiness. I wasn't ever asking that it be made OP like some of these recent buildings. Just disappointed that it's no good anymore because it's outdated.