In guild sniping

[DeletedUser8428]

Maybe we can look at this differently. Swap threads are not intrinsically reward threads. The agreement is that you put X number of FPs on the preceding person's GB and the next person does the same for you when they come along. You get back as many FPs as you contribute as long as everyone plays fairly. That's their purpose. A side benefit is that if you contribute enough to the same person's GB and are one of the top 5 contributors, you get a reward.

In the meantime, any person can contribute to any GB at any time. If someone comes along and contributes enough to receive a reward, why are you mad? You received what was initially agreed upon. If you wanted the reward, maybe you should have done what was required to get it.

Best bet is to check with your own guild's leadership.

 

[Woody*]

Rewards from GB prizes is one of the biggests threat to guild harmony in the game. Arcs and the sniping it encourages are a subset of this. Unfortunately, there are a lot of factors to deal with, and there is no easy solution.

Rampant sniping and/or FP-train domination by people with the highest Arcs can really generate a lot of discord and jealousy in a guild. This is exacerbated by people who don't understand that if they participate in the FP trains, they get 100% return even if they never win a prize. These people say things like "you cost me X FPs" or "I got cheated", but that's not accurate at all. They gave 10, the GB owner got 10, and they get 10 in return. It all works out....however, if they never win a reward because of others with high Arcs and/or big FP pack inventory, it encourages other members to avoid the FP trains; i.e. "why bother? I might as well self-level". In Dune, we work to avoid this by having our top 3 Arc owners rarely use the FP trains to avoid jealousy building up about us winning all the top prizes.

On the plus side, sniping in-guild keeps the rewards in house and prevents outsiders from taking the packs, prints and medals. It makes it easier for the members whose GBs get sniped to level those GBs because they get free donations. However, a high level Arc owner can use the trains to get in an advantageous position, and then use a high boost to make really big profits. Our solution to this is to offer 1.9 trades so people with the GBs getting sniped get the full benefit of our Arc bonuses.

Another factor is how hard it is to control sniping. You can connect and dis-connect GBs to force rewards to certain people, but otherwise a rule against sniping in a guild is very difficult to enforce and ensures that either a) guildies will have to work harder to level their GBs because no one snipes them with free donations or b) those snipes come from outside the guild.

 

[DeletedUser32824]

I go for the anarchy approach. I self level to the point where an Arc 80 can lock in 1st. Then I post in in our Arc 80 thread and leave it. I put 103 into my lvl 2 Cape and a non-arc put in 20, then another non arc put in 25, then an arc80 put in 31 to lock first, leaving 2nd with 10 and 3rd with 5. I have no rules with my GBs and I like it .

I will say though, as a general rule, if you put FPs on a guild mates GB I'd at least try and match the reward amount. If somehow there was a 40 FP reward with 60 left I'd probably put 40(mayeb not all right away if you wanna see it play out) and let some other guildies get the other rewards.

Also, if someone has locked 1st with the exact amount of the reward and they DON'T have an arc, it's kind of a jerk thing to steal 1st from them. Not in the guild, go for it. If they are several FPs below 1st, then I'd say it's okay to take 1st, since they haven't fully committed to it yet. In your situation, I think it's one of the 50s fault for not seeing they could lock first by putting in 11 more FP. If that was me I would be super sure I knew what those 50 FP were getting me. It's the responsibility of the donor to not be an idiot with not missing out on their rewards.

I recently put in 27FP to someone's GB for a 50FP 1st place and not one other person put a FP on it haha! Could have had 2nd for 1 fp.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

If it doesn't get sniped in guild, it'll probably get sniped by someone out of guild. Train your guildmates to look out for their own contributions and put in extra to lock their spots when it's worth it rather than being cheap and getting bent out of shape because someone took it from them. Overall it is a policy issue that's up to leadership but i can't imagine any sane system other than allowing snipes (perhaps with minor regulation such as requiring giving a particular % over reward that allows snipers some profit for their effort of finding it but also is less predatory than 'minimum value' sniping).

 

[DeletedUser]

I think they should open a world where Arcs are not available. I would close down all my other cities and play that world exclusively.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I think they should open a world where Arcs are not available. I would close down all my other cities and play that world exclusively.

*curses the unnamed player(that anyone can identify if they care) for spoiling Y world so quickly* - a big part of the fun of new worlds is the pre-arc times - one bozo rushes to OF with a spread of a wide variety of premium buildings from all ages and then quits without doing anything else - half expect they're an inno plant. If I hadn't already invested a little in the start of Y (expansions, blueprints) i would've bailed to Z probably.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Maybe we can look at this differently. Swap threads are not intrinsically reward threads. The agreement is that you put X number of FPs on the preceding person's GB and the next person does the same for you when they come along. You get back as many FPs as you contribute as long as everyone plays fairly. That's their purpose. A side benefit is that if you contribute enough to the same person's GB and are one of the top 5 contributors, you get a reward.

In the meantime, any person can contribute to any GB at any time. If someone comes along and contributes enough to receive a reward, why are you mad? You received what was initially agreed upon. If you wanted the reward, maybe you should have done what was required to get it.

The most active players in them are using them for rewards though. If the assumption is you'll never get a reward from them, then you may as well self-level and contract snipers (even arc-less ones) - you'll save FP in the process since the snipes are free FP you didn't have to pay for and 'you weren't getting a reward' if you used the swap threads. You're not GUARANTEED any particular reward but most users are planning to get one. Over time you learn how various guild members use them and it varies widely.

Some people just keep the one building in various different levels of thread and use it as the main way to level it and this is when they tend to work best. Some people use it to fill out the crappy reward spots and then make side deals for the top spots besides (potentially stalling the thread as noone wants on their building).

Some people finish levels when all the rewards are locked up. Some people keep posting the building to the very last FP in the level (potentially stalling the thread).

Some people only take the threads when buildings they expect a profit on are there and concentrate their donations. Some people take the threads when they happen to have FP to spend whatever is there and their donations are all spread out. Some people are somewhere inbetween.

Some people add extra to protect their spots or move up a spot. Some people stalk the thread waiting to grab more 'swaps' to protect the spot or message the owner to try and arrange an extra side deal to protect it. Some people just hope it works out.

They are not a system that guarantees fairness, but that's what a lot of people like about them - they're sortof a competition to get the best deal you can. And as long as one person's not running away with that competition things usually stay civil

 

[DeletedUser31771]

So secret side deals are ok, xivarmy? Deals that exclude others who contribute to the same GB? Got it

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I'm not saying it's a desirable activity for the health of the threads/guild Theresa, i'm saying it happens and it's hard to control even if you want to.

 

[Freshmeboy]

I don't agree with the secret side deal Theresa...that is what i call a back door deal. Your guildies swap on the threads and contribute the bulk of the total only to have you "pick" the winner of the top slot by making a deal out the back door. It's not a snipe out of the blue but a calculated swap that dashes the hopes of those players looking to benefit some reward return. Claire is correct in her analysis of GB donations and how they disrupt guild harmony-and it isn't just the arc. It comes down to those that have city produced fps in large amounts and those that don't. If my city produces 62 fps a day, they need to go SOMEWHERE...either self level or the swaps or sniping. Joe Q. Public that makes 3 a day plus his dailies stands zero chance against me on the threads. I urge everybody to take advantage of events and do their DCs solely for fp growth but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

The Elephant in the room is

a) Swap threads
b) Arcs

Swaps threads are probably the most inefficient way of using your fps, especially now that we have Arc. Once upon a time they were good, but with Arcs and RQ Swap threads are thing of past.

Try and self level your gb and get top 1 and/or 2 and when the gb is high enough 3rd taken for 1.9/1.8.......Magic happens.

 

[DeletedUser29218]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't know if that's right. The rewards are fixed, and hence zero sum I think? If everyone contributes 50 FPs, and you swoop in and put in 80 to win 100 let's say, did you really help? The GB owner saved 80 FPs, you net 20 FPs, and the other contributors collectively lost 100 FPs.

If your arc is higher than the ones you overtake, it isn't a 0 sum game but a positive sum one.

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My guild clearly states that you can snipe and be sniped in the GBs of your guildmates, and I think that's the best. If they always are in an overprotective environment they will never learn. This way people will (hopefully) learn when and how to lock their spots. They will learn how not to be sniped hundreds of FPs by an enemy guild.

I'll put a real example.
Through guild swap threads I was 1st in a lvl ~20 arc (I think I didn't have an arc at the time, I would have locked the position if so). A guildmate with lvl 60 or so said he could snipe it but he wasn't going to do it out of respect for me. I told him that this was a mistake, and he should do it. Then, the guy who was 2nd complained and in the end, my guildmate didn't snipe. The following day the GB received more donations, and was (obviously) sniped at a much larger benefit from a neighbour. For me, this is not courtesy, it is idiocity

Result:
The guildmate with high arc lost a snipping oportunity.
The guild mate owner of the GB got sniped by an outsider and received less FP.
I stayed more or less the same.
The guy who was 2nd traded a few more FPs thinking it would make a difference, but the only thing he did was increasing the sniper's benefits.


This is not to say we snipe everything on sight. There are a few people that have deals among themselves (anyone who checks GBs regularly would notice). They know how to keep the rewards within the group, but there is one person who keeps messing up and puts FP when he shouldn't.

I've messaged them and we have come to an agreement: if it can be sniped but for low value I message them and give them a few hours to fix it until I snipe; if they mess up big time I snipe it on sight. And I know there are other high arc players in my guild who do similar things.

 

[DeletedUser31498]

If your arc is higher than the ones you overtake, it isn't a 0 sum game but a positive sum one.

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My guild clearly states that you can snipe and be sniped in the GBs of your guildmates, and I think that's the best. If they always are in an overprotective environment they will never learn. This way people will (hopefully) learn when and how to lock their spots. They will learn how not to be sniped hundreds of FPs by an enemy guild.

I'll put a real example.
Through guild swap threads I was 1st in a lvl ~20 arc (I think I didn't have an arc at the time, I would have locked the position if so). A guildmate with lvl 60 or so said he could snipe it but he wasn't going to do it out of respect for me. I told him that this was a mistake, and he should do it. Then, the guy who was 2nd complained and in the end, my guildmate didn't snipe. The following day the GB received more donations, and was (obviously) sniped at a much larger benefit from a neighbour. For me, this is not courtesy, it is idiocity

Result:
The guildmate with high arc lost a snipping oportunity.
The guild mate owner of the GB got sniped by an outsider and received less FP.
I stayed more or less the same.
The guy who was 2nd traded a few more FPs thinking it would make a difference, but the only thing he did was increasing the sniper's benefits.


This is not to say we snipe everything on sight. There are a few people that have deals among themselves (anyone who checks GBs regularly would notice). They know how to keep the rewards within the group, but there is one person who keeps messing up and puts FP when he shouldn't.

I've messaged them and we have come to an agreement: if it can be sniped but for low value I message them and give them a few hours to fix it until I snipe; if they mess up big time I snipe it on sight. And I know there are other high arc players in my guild who do similar things.

Yeah I mentioned that in my post, read the second paragraph:

"The only way the guild is actually better off is if you use an Arc to snipe over the reward amount, and hence contribute FPs over the "loss" to the others. But if they have Arcs, then you're not helping, only relative to your % bonus to theirs. Think that's right, but possibly not."

And yes, IF they entire guild policy is every man for himself, then that's great (for those with high level Arcs, and terrible for low level players).

@xivarmy had a great post, and the problem is every single guild I've ever been in has that "one person" who within an hour of being in the guild you identify as "the sniper". Invariably they're top on all the Arcs, and in my last guild I left the scumbag even messaged me offering to take a spot from a non-guildie (at a net FP benefit to him), and I could pay him back the FPs he invested (full amount, not even gross of reward). I was so mad I messaged leadership and they were mostly ok with it. So scummy.

 

[DeletedUser29055]

This thread actually got me to ask our guild leader. answer: if you dont snipe someone else from friend list or neighborhood will. Like that answer

I personally will try to lock in a position but not at all cost. If i see a guild member on a gb, e.g., from which s/he need bps and it just feels wrong to snipe, i will not do it. But especially higher level gbs will need someone to lock in first, second, even if in guild swap.

So far wez haven’t had much problem with someone consistently “unfairly” ? Sniping.

 

[Volodya]

This thread actually got me to ask our guild leader. answer: if you dont snipe someone else from friend list or neighborhood will. Like that answer

Yeah, that's often the justification for in-guild sniping. In my experience though--almost exactly four years playing--it just isn't true. Of course it happens sometimes, but I'm constantly amazed how often a one or two fp placeholder wins me a very profitable award position, even on high-level Arcs. Maybe E world is anomalous this way; I only play there, so I've no way of determining it.

 

[DeletedUser31771]

Yeah, that's often the justification for in-guild sniping. In my experience though--almost exactly four years playing--it just isn't true. Of course it happens sometimes, but I'm constantly amazed how often a one or two fp placeholder wins me a very profitable award position, even on high-level Arcs. Maybe E world is anomalous this way; I only play there, so I've no way of determining it.

I think it’ll become more prevalent as people begin to see the rewards. I hunt my neighborhood and friends list every other day or so looking for self-leveling GBs and those close to leveling to see if there is opportunity

 

[Volodya]

I think it’ll become more prevalent as people begin to see the rewards. I hunt my neighborhood and friends list every other day or so looking for self-leveling GBs and those close to leveling to see if there is opportunity

Maybe, but I'm in a long-established world with probably 100s of 80+ Arcs. These players surely know the advantages of sniping, but by and large they aren't doing it all that much. If I had to speculate, I'd guess that advanced players with thousands or tens of thousands of fps in the bank come to value the social aspects of the game more and more and care less and less about increasing their point stock, since they'll never spend it all anyway.

 

[DeletedUser31440]

Maybe, but I'm in a long-established world with probably 100s of 80+ Arcs. These players surely know the advantages of sniping, but by and large they aren't doing it all that much. If I had to speculate, I'd guess that advanced players with thousands or tens of thousands of fps in the bank come to value the social aspects of the game more and more and care less and less about increasing their point stock, since they'll never spend it all anyway.

I think it's more a function of how they are already spending their fp's. I can only speculate but I would venture to say that they are in guilds with a 1.85 or so lock thread. If that's the case they don't need to search for snipes because people offer them up within the guild, since they'd be making some profit off of those there isn't much need to go out sniping on your own.

 

[Volodya]

I think it's more a function of how they are already spending their fp's. I can only speculate but I would venture to say that they are in guilds with a 1.85 or so lock thread. If that's the case they don't need to search for snipes because people offer them up within the guild, since they'd be making some profit off of those there isn't much need to go out sniping on your own.

Sure, that's plausible also.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Maybe, but I'm in a long-established world with probably 100s of 80+ Arcs. These players surely know the advantages of sniping, but by and large they aren't doing it all that much. If I had to speculate, I'd guess that advanced players with thousands or tens of thousands of fps in the bank come to value the social aspects of the game more and more and care less and less about increasing their point stock, since they'll never spend it all anyway.

Well I don't know about valuing the social aspect more, and they certainly can spend all their FP relatively quickly if they felt it worth it - but with an 80+ arc you have people who just ask for you to take a profit off them, usually with fairly high level buildings that pay decent profit with no effort of scanning the hood to find them. It tends to (mostly) be the midlevel arcs that are stretching for every FP or free arc print they can find from snipes.

I find more or less having finished the arc journey kinda makes you lazy. You probably do 1 or 2 more buildings to enjoy the profits of your labor and then you start realising there isn't a challenge to it anymore and you don't really NEED more hyperlevelled buildings, so you just sorta slow down and pick the next one and level it as you can naturally and it's still way faster than pre-arc times.