NFL: Best Teams

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by Kirk55, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

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    Please bear in mind that NFL owners, despite having more than a wee bit of power both in and out of sports, are not the government. That being the case, they are free to do pretty much as they wish in terms of backing or not backing their player's political viewpoints.

    There is more than ample evidence that team owners, in general (though the NFL seems to be an exception) routinely cave in to accommodate those with leftist views, while those with more traditional views are not tolerated.

    There is almost ample evidence that the NFL is suffering a backlash by fans who are disgusted with Kaepernick and his ilk, and are displaying that disgust by not watching games. CBS commissioned a survey to find out the reasons why viewership was down last year. Much of the media opined that it was due to the Presidential race. The poll showed that the largest factor was disgust over the display of anti-American (more on that in a sec) propaganda on the part of Kaepernick and his ilk.

    Yes, I say it is "anti-American" because perhaps others have forgotten that dear Mr. Kaepernick chose to sport a Che Guevara shirt at one point. Guevara was a murderous Marxist thug, and here was Mr. Civil Rights himself wearing a shirt that glorified him. Perhaps others have forgotten, too, that dear Mr. Kaepernick also chose to wear sock which depicted police as "pigs", showing him to be in ideological lockstep with the Black Lives Matter crowd who chanted "Pigs in a blanket/Fry them like bacon!" But of course they were referring to the delicious breakfast meat!

    Again: exercising one's right to free speech does not mean that such expression is free from consequences. Too many seem to either have forgotten that or never knew it in the first place.
     
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  2. freshmeboy

    freshmeboy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, that sample size was 1000 people in a telephone survey versus the estimated 200 million who will watch a prime time football game....Hey, look! I took a bucket of water from the ocean and I see ample evidence there are no fish in these waters!. I agree however, that there are consequences to free speech actions...now if only the owners would admit it. Meanwhile, on topic, I see the Steelers and the Raiders as possible threats to dethrone the Pats in the AFC with the Titans the dark horse if Mariota can develop even more this year. Raiders need to find solidarity in their secondary or risk a shoot out every week and the Steelers just need to stay healthy The AFC West will be the toughest division and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chiefs, Bolts and Broncos all vying for the top spot and possibly losing a wild card spot because of the competition. The Colts lack a defense and an offensive line as well as their QB and the Texans are primarily a defensive team at this point. Summary: Pats, Steelers, Raiders and Titans are the four seeds with the Ravens, Texans, Chiefs and Broncos as the possible wild cards.
     
  3. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Member

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    I'd like to know what the definition of "best team" is for the purpose of this discussion, and if there's supposed to be any difference between "the best" and "my favorite". If there's no definition and no difference, then...we're basically just fighting over various flavors of skub, right?
     
  4. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

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    "Almost ample evidence"? So, not quite ample evidence? Seriously, that phrase is meaningless. And the reason people are not watching games is simple: lack of a quality product. A league crammed with mediocre to poor teams. Boring games, with a very few exceptions. Overpaid athletes. Owners that blackmail whole cities. The list goes on. Colin Kaepernick is way down on the list of why we're not watching games.
     
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  5. alkayman

    alkayman Active Member

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    The only game I watch are when my Patriots play: I stream them. Otherwise, because of what Goofball did to TB12 with the bogus "deflategate" I will not watch any other game. I was pretty tired of the NFL anyway (living in Mi I would have to get the Sunday package to see someone other then the Dolts or Bears) it was driving me loco bozo anyway. But the BS with the Patriots (and the Saints a few years ago) is what turned me off. I only play in 1 FFL league now with my church: I used to play 12-15 leagues a season.
     
  6. alkayman

    alkayman Active Member

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    I think a definition of the best would be a team that year in and year out is always one of the favorites to go to the Super Bowl and win it. Sure there are some teams that get on a hot streak each season, but there are maybe 4-6 "top" teams each season. Each one shares the same traits:

    1) Ownership doesn't really meddle in the team building
    2) They draft well
    3) Manage the salary cap very well
    4) Have good/great coaching
    5) They build their roster so no one injury ruins the season
     
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  7. alkayman

    alkayman Active Member

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    I love this:

    Screenshot (294).png
     
  8. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

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    I meant to write "also ample evidence".

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-biggest-reason-nfl-viewers-stopped-watching/

    I'm not sure which poll of 1000 people the poster above referred to, but this poll is of slightly over 9000 people.

    26% cited the on-field protests as why they stopped watching.

    24% cited "off-field" issues such as domestic abuse, which, I'd argue, are tired into the "thug culture" that the NFL seems to be not rejecting but embracing.

    Now there is no doubt, to my mind at least, that you're correct: the NFL puts out a very bad product. It's not as craptacular as the NBA is- talk about overpaid and undertalented players!- but it's pretty bad. Expansion, due to the greed of owners and the politicians they buy in the various cities, deserve the bulk of blame for poor product. Were it not for corporations which buy tickets in bulk as perks to employees and potential or current customers, I really wonder if stadiums would continue to sell out.

    ESPN is in trouble, not just because they have become the MSNBC of the sports world, but also because they paid far too much for the rights to broadcast sporting events (they are not alone in this, but are the chief offender). Player salaries are, in some part, tied to television revenue. Once that golden goose stops laying golden eggs, reality might set in as far as player salaries. Unlike countries, sports franchises cannot continue to borrow and borrow when they are drowning in debt.
     
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  9. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Member

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    Assuming the survey team isn't completely incompetent, somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 people can easily represent a population in the millions, to an acceptable 2-3% margin of error. It's just a matter of some relatively straightforward equations...bread-and-butter stuff for professional mathematicians. Heck, you can probably Google a sample-size-calculator yourself. Whether you like the results or not, you can't say a sample size of 1,000+ is "too small to judge".

    Of course, if you're taking an opinion poll, several hundred of the people you polled could just be lying. People lie all the time. That would throw the number-crunchers off. But if that's the claim being made, I think it would be fair to ask how you know they're lying.
     
  10. freshmeboy

    freshmeboy Well-Known Member

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    You did see the estimated 200 million watching a prime time football game, right...? That isn't my number, it comes straight from the CBS poll the poster referred to earlier....So, .000005 % of the total viewers is indicative of the entire audience and the results will be accurate within 2-3%...? Hmmmm...
     
  11. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

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    What was that, the Super Bowl? The opening game Thursday night with the Chiefs upsetting the Patriots had the lowest ratings for an opening game since 2009. I still say it's the quality of the product that's hurting their viewing numbers. And don't even get me started on instant replay's negative effect on every sport it is used in. Combine overpaid, underproducing players with game officials that have to confer after every flag is thrown because IR has them running scared, and you have the good reason to choose the more exciting alternatives of watching grass grow or paint dry. Just don't watch the pot, it will never boil. :D
     
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  12. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

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    Surveys can easily be manipulated to show whatever you want with a "2-3%" margin of error if you ignore the confidence level and statistical power.
     
  13. Kataphractos

    Kataphractos Member

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    With respect: you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, a sample size of roughly 1,000 to 1,500 does accurately represent populations of 200 million. (Probably on the low end, but I've got to pack for Hurricane Irma, so you'll have to do your own sample-size-calculator Googling.) That's. How. Polling. WORKS. And I'm sure you don't know what you're talking about, to a zero percent margin of error, because you can't even tell the difference between 0.000005 -- the result your calculator gives when you divide 1,000 by 200 million -- and 0.00005%. (Pro-tip: those are not the same number.)

    If you're asserting this survey was manipulated, then it's on you to prove that. You can't just assume a survey was manipulated because you don't like the results. Look...I don't like that all this culture-war BS is leaking into football games either, and I'm welcome to anything that says it isn't. But right now, the only actual evidence anybody has bothered to present on this thread, tells us that football fans are exactly as fickle and stupid and polarized as everybody else in the U.S.A. Surprise!
     
  14. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

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    I'm the first one to agree that polls can be crafted so as to produce the data that those commissioning the poll want it to produce.

    Let's just say that last year afforded a plethora of examples of this.

    But this was a poll commissioned by CBS Sports. This isn't ESPN, which has a clearly identifiable ideological viewpoint. If CBS Sports has an ideological viewpoint, I am not aware of it.

    Cui bono? "Who benefits"? Does CBS Sports benefit from a poll which indicates that those who were tuning the NFL out were doing so mostly because they objected to the ideology of the players and the manner by which they expressed that ideology? As much as I am skeptical of polls- and for valid reasons- I just don't see the benefit.
     
  15. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

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    I'm not asserting anything. I simply suggested that your statement was incomplete at best. Margin of error is a poor measure of a survey's outcome.
    Well, polls have no benefits on their own. They're usually just clickbait.
     
  16. Snowbelle

    Snowbelle Staff Lead Forum Moderator

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    We have a NFL contest going now until just before the start of TNF. Good luck!
     
  17. alkayman

    alkayman Active Member

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    Sorry: I am not watching the NFL anymore, nor am I participating in my FFL leagues (2 of which I have been in as keeper leagues for 10 years now).
     
  18. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

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    And if the owners mandate standing during the National Anthem, I won't be watching anymore.
     
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  19. Lancer

    Lancer Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I live in Maryland. Allegany county to be exact. I'm 2 and a half hours from Pittsburgh so I've been a penguins' and steelers' fan for my entire life. Baseball I chose by which two teams were playing because I liked more than just one.
     

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