Space Age Asteroid Belt Feedback

[Emberguard]

the goods manufacturer gives 40 goods every 8 hours.

Not in the main city. The Chateau is for the main city not the outpost. So the amounts are still relative to the main city

 

[DeletedUser34239]

There is not going to be a second GB
They confirmed it on FB.
That means that the SC is the only one .

Well, that's a bummer. I would love to know the thinking behind not offering at least 2 (as they do in all other eras).

 

[DeletedUser34239]

Well, for the first time I was able to fight through all 64 encounters of GE: no negotiation. I suppose it's possible that my improved fighting ability was caused by some kind of strategic epiphany, or possibly by the single level of my TA that I just gained. But I think it's much more likely that it was because the SAM units I was using are significantly better than the SAAB units I was fighting.

Yep, that's the reason. The only thing that slows you down against SAAB units is the attr level getting so much higher than GE enemy boosts ever do.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

Just revisiting this thread, a week later...

Having now played around with all of the units, I can now say unequivocally that the SAAB units are a complete disaster.

1. The heavy unit (shredder) is so terrible that you can kill 8 of them on level 4 GE using 8 ranged units (nail storms) without taking any damage whatsoever, despite the shredder supposedly being a "counter" to the nail storm.

In reality, using the shredder is pure suicide, and there is no advantage whatsoever to using them in any circumstance, compared to using SAM steel wardens.

2. If the heavy unit is terrible, the light unit (Drill Ranger) is an unmitigated disaster of a unit. I seriously cannot fathom why the developers think it makes any sense at all to give Contact to melee units with 1 range. They are so terrible that one of the units they're supposed to counter (Shredder) deals a tremendous amount of damage to them because drill rangers have no way to inflict damage without taking retaliatory damage, whereas Shredders do.

3. The fast unit (hover hammer) is terrible, but at least has the mitigating factor of being immune to artillery.

4. The artillery unit seems balanced.

5. The ranged unit (nail storm) is disgustingly overpowered, easily beating every unit from its age due to its high range and high damage. With the combination of Keen Eye + AO, it is not uncommon to see them 1-shotting the units that are supposed to counter them (Shredder/Hammer). On top of that, they also are extremely strong against the light unit and plenty strong against the artillery as well.



How to balance:
1. Give Drill Rangers +1 range so that their contact skill works against Shredders.
2. Increase the movement of Shredders by 9 so that they can hit Nail Storms immediately after the Nail Storms hit them.
3. Decrease the range of Nail Storms by 1 so that they can't outrange Shredders so easily.
4. Increase the movement of Hover Hammers so that they can hit the nail storms/artillery before they've had a chance to move.

I would actually think larger improvements are needed.
1) I would suggest a range of 4, minimum, so the contact skill can be more effective against other units and not just Shredders (as you suggest). Currently, it does absolutely nothing.
2) I would give the shredders a range of 7 or more (so they can actually hit some SAM troops).
3) That makes sense, but making these weaker seems counter-productive to me. They are the only SAAB units that can do anything. I would like to see them have more places to hide. There is little or no rubble anywhere on the asteroid belt, so their stealth is mostly wasted.
4) I would increase the range of the hover hammers (to about 7?) before the movement or give them dragon breath (like the other troops in prior eras that have no range). They can rarely hit anything unless the attr is so high you cannot kill them quickly.
5) Give the artillery units blast (maybe just 1 cell away, since they can see through stealth, so that will limit them some). This will at least make them better than rockets instead of weaker. Arty that can see through stealth and have some blast would be kick ass.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

Hells bells your still in the asteroid belt. The next age is VENUS! I really hope we're not going planet to planet before getting out of our galaxy.... Sounds like Inno lost out on ideas for ages.

Out of galaxy? surly you mean solar system, not galaxy!?
Do you have ANY IDEA of how big the galaxy is?!

 

[DeletedUser34239]

For GE, yes. For gvg, I'm not sure. I am visiting a guild that does not do AA gvg, but if you use SAM's against SAAB DA, your AO does not kick in, so you have to rerack more, which slows you down, so makes you less effective than you are used to being. Since that is also true for the enemy, it probably balances out a bit. For gbg, where it won't balance out, it sucks. I was at attr 50 yesterday when we needed a tile badly. I could barely do anything to help get it. If I were still in SAM, I could have gone another 20-30 attr on auto (I would have lost units in the 60's a bit and more in the 70's, but I could have really helped the guild I am visiting against an enemy that got out). In SAAB, I had to manual fight and that gave the enemy time to spread farther. The other disadvantage is that I cannot use the troops I am winning in gbg to help me fight anywhere. The only one I can use is the SAAB ranged (nail storm). So, while I am killing off troops I need, they are being replaced with ones that I cannot do anything with.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

For GE, yes. For gvg, I'm not sure. I am visiting a guild that does not do AA gvg, but if you use SAM's against SAAB DA, your AO does not kick in, so you have to rerack more, which slows you down, so makes you less effective than you are used to being. Since that is also true for the enemy, it probably balances out a bit. For gbg, where it won't balance out, it sucks. I was at attr 50 yesterday when we needed a tile badly. I could barely do anything to help get it. If I were still in SAM, I could have gone another 20-30 attr on auto (I would have lost units in the 60's a bit and more in the 70's, but I could have really helped the guild I am visiting against an enemy that got out). In SAAB, I had to manual fight and that gave the enemy time to spread farther. The other disadvantage is that I cannot use the troops I am winning in gbg to help me fight anywhere. The only one I can use is the SAAB ranged (nail storm). So, while I am killing off troops I need, they are being replaced with ones that I cannot do anything with.

Ok, i wasn't even thinking about AO.... lol

 

[DeletedUser34239]

Yeah, as soon as gbg came out, we realized we needed to level our AO's since the top era folks are always fighting same era troops. So, we did. Now, at least for this era, that was wasted effort.

 

[Sheriff Of Rottingham]

I don't understand the reasoning of not allowing us to access the Mars Ore deposits if we move to SAAB. They're on the map, why not just leave them there?

Yeah this was a bummer for me, but it was due entirely to my laziness in Mars Ore farming, and then not reading the REALLY REALLY fine print regarding the inability to continue farming Mars Ore once we moved on to SAAB. Last 5 months since I heard about the new age I could have been farming it daily, but i said to myself "I can just farm it later when i need it. I can get like 500 per day anyway." I was not correct. :/ On well, we have the 3x3 production buildings to make the goods.

 

[Sheriff Of Rottingham]

Am I missing something, or do SAAB units stink? Like REALLY stink compared to Mars units. Maybe there is a new strat that makes them sweet, but I am too stuck in my ways of fighting from 7+ years of play experience.

 

[Agent327]

Am I missing something, or do SAAB units stink? Like REALLY stink compared to Mars units. Maybe there is a new strat that makes them sweet, but I am too stuck in my ways of fighting from 7+ years of play experience.

You are missing something.

 

[qaccy]

I would actually think larger improvements are needed.
1) I would suggest a range of 4, minimum, so the contact skill can be more effective against other units and not just Shredders (as you suggest). Currently, it does absolutely nothing.
2) I would give the shredders a range of 7 or more (so they can actually hit some SAM troops).
3) That makes sense, but making these weaker seems counter-productive to me. They are the only SAAB units that can do anything. I would like to see them have more places to hide. There is little or no rubble anywhere on the asteroid belt, so their stealth is mostly wasted.
4) I would increase the range of the hover hammers (to about 7?) before the movement or give them dragon breath (like the other troops in prior eras that have no range). They can rarely hit anything unless the attr is so high you cannot kill them quickly.
5) Give the artillery units blast (maybe just 1 cell away, since they can see through stealth, so that will limit them some). This will at least make them better than rockets instead of weaker. Arty that can see through stealth and have some blast would be kick ass.

For what little it's worth, the SAAB units having low range make sense. They're attacking with drills, sawblades, and...hammers(??? looks more like a giant screwdriver to me). They aren't launching projectiles, hence the low range. Heck, the Shredder even having a range of 2 is stretching it a little (and really defeats the advantage that the Drill Ranger is supposed to have against them). Essentially, the units were probably designed first, then given stats later. The units would have to be completely replaced for higher ranges to make sense for them.

Again, and I'll keep repeating this in every post I make that seems like it's 'defending' the SAAB units, I still think they're pretty bad. But as far as their low range goes, it makes sense given the visual designs of the units.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

For what little it's worth, the SAAB units having low range make sense. They're attacking with drills, sawblades, and...hammers(??? looks more like a giant screwdriver to me). They aren't launching projectiles, hence the low range. Heck, the Shredder even having a range of 2 is stretching it a little (and really defeats the advantage that the Drill Ranger is supposed to have against them). Essentially, the units were probably designed first, then given stats later. The units would have to be completely replaced for higher ranges to make sense for them.

Again, and I'll keep repeating this in every post I make that seems like it's 'defending' the SAAB units, I still think they're pretty bad. But as far as their low range goes, it makes sense given the visual designs of the units.

Great explanation. The units make sense for the Asteroid Belt. It seems they weren't designed as weapons of war, they were designed to mine asteroids. The miners are now using them to fight each other over the deposits.

 

[DevaCat]

Great explanation. The units make sense for the Asteroid Belt. It seems they weren't designed as weapons of war, they were designed to mine asteroids. The miners are now using them to fight each other over the deposits.

Great line of reasoning, you and qaccy. Add in the lack of decent gravity handicap and it's no wonder y'all say these units suck!

 

[Sheriff Of Rottingham]

You are missing something.

OK...what am I missing?

 

[Sheriff Of Rottingham]

For what little it's worth, the SAAB units having low range make sense. They're attacking with drills, sawblades, and...hammers(??? looks more like a giant screwdriver to me). They aren't launching projectiles, hence the low range. Heck, the Shredder even having a range of 2 is stretching it a little (and really defeats the advantage that the Drill Ranger is supposed to have against them). Essentially, the units were probably designed first, then given stats later. The units would have to be completely replaced for higher ranges to make sense for them.

Again, and I'll keep repeating this in every post I make that seems like it's 'defending' the SAAB units, I still think they're pretty bad. But as far as their low range goes, it makes sense given the visual designs of the units.

It makes perfect sense why they are the way that they are. When I saw them and their description it was the same thing i thought. They are mining units, not war units. My previous commentary on them isn't that they don't make sense, but that they seem inferior to Mars units for fighting. So it was why I asked the question, "am I missing something?". I do appreciate your actual response trying to be helpful as opposed to the other smart-alec response response though.

 

[Agent327]

OK...what am I missing?

SAAB units don't stink.

 

[Agent327]

Great explanation. The units make sense for the Asteroid Belt. It seems they weren't designed as weapons of war, they were designed to mine asteroids. The miners are now using them to fight each other over the deposits.

Which is raher strange since there are still two weapons of war.

 

[qaccy]

So...what does B.E.L.T. stand for, anyway? Probably nothing at all, but it's entirely possible I just missed it somewhere. Same with C.R.A.B., now that I think about it.

 

[DeletedUser32973]

I think the BELT and Nail Storm are fine, though the AI for the BELT is horrendous. Just in the context of SAAB it's kind of a problem that Nail Storms decimate all the other units even with a tactical disadvantage. When you include units from previous ages like rockets troops and sentinels it's even worse. I don't see how one can argue that SAAB units are good with such huge glaring flaws. Though Inno seems to have a theme of introducing only 1 or 2 units per age that are useful. In retrospect, however, it's nice that I don't have to change my army composition very much anymore. I've just been doing nail storm rogue combinations in GBG on auto until it gets boring, then I'm done.