vote your conscience not your wallet

[RazorbackPirate]

Many countries, sadly, remain places where laws, courts and government are routinely bought, where there is no free press, and where a rich person can make you disappear without trace, and with no recourse for your family.

Right here, right now. You've quite succinctly described the Jeffrey Epstein case. Suicide my behind. Let me add no recourse for the victims. #Arkancide.

 

[DeletedUser]

Seriously? Have you ever lived in a developing country, or in an African Country? I have. You would be arrested and in jail, if not killed in at least half a dozen countries right now for making any statement hinting your government was corrupt. Your statement above would be used as “proof” in your trial for anti-social behavior, Try going to Moscow with a “Putin Sucks” T-shirt.

You have freedom of speech, you have the ability to access multiple sources of information, and you can publicly disagree with politicians, you are even able to insult them in print and in public. Try doing that in almost any country outside North America or Western Europe, and see what happens.

Everything I see from the so-called conservatives is whining over the pain they have to endure when forced to take any personal responsibly for the outcomes of their actions, The only driver is maximizing pleasure, doing "what I want when I want". This is combined with putting down, as aggressively as possible, any hint that they have an obligation to be socially responsible for the impact of their actions.

I am glad there are people who want to be public servants, such as cops, firefighters and yes, politicians. I am glad that there are still some people who believe there is honor is working on behalf of your country and community and for the public good, and that life is not just about how much one can win for themselves at any cost.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Everything I see from the so-called conservatives is whining over the pain they have to endure when forced to take any personal responsibly for the outcomes of their actions, The only driver is maximizing pleasure, doing "what I want when I want". This is combined with putting down, as aggressively as possible, any hint that they have an obligation to be socially responsible for the impact of their actions.

Wow, do you have things backwards. Conservatives avoiding personal responsibility? Yeah, we're all for that abortion thing.

I am glad there are people who want to be public servants, such as cops, firefighters and yes, politicians. I am glad that there are still some people who believe there is honor is working on behalf of your country and community and for the public good, and that life is not just about how much one can win for themselves at any cost.

As am I, but to think that somehow our leaders here are exempt from corruption is laughable. The previous administration at the behest of the previous presidential candidate colluded to frame and spy on the opposing presidential campaigns. When they could not sway the election far enough, they attempted to use the completely fabricated story in a coup attempt to take down a sitting, duly elected President.

No. If we were still a nation of laws, these people would be facing military tribunals for treason. Sorry, only difference between the US and any other banana republic is better tech and indoor plumbing. The facade of decency.

Does that mean they're all corrupt? No. But you won't make it to a leadership position if you're not on the take. Woopee. I get to talk openly about my corrupt, government. Still means I have a corrupt Government. #Spygate. Think we'll see justice on that? Will you support justice if we do?

 

[Freshmeboy]

Join the ACLU and look at the work they do...It's a constant fight against the powers that be to maintain our rights. Does government give in to special groups who use money and favors to sway votes...? Absolutely. Because we have humans in government and we are imperfect. Do these same special interest groups try to take our rights away in favor of profits...? Absolutely. Because our democracy allows them the rights to petition their government to get laws changed. It may be imperfect and it may not last the millenia but the millions that flock here now and the millions that have left their home countries to come to these shores, persecuted for their religions or political views, are testament that our government is indeed the most envied in the world....

 

[Emberguard]

I am pretty sure these geniuses don’t think that if they support the right to free speech, and don’t allow me to stand in their living room and say whatever I want, they are hypocrites.

Hang on, you first have to get to the living room.

The argument before that being called out as hypocritical was allowing someone in that living room but not with a gun

Now if allowing them in depended on whether they’re allowed to talk without just cause then yeah that would be hypocritical.

 

[AdrianHarbinger]

I would support gun consfication as long as ALL the guns go the same route..that means police without guns, no National Guard with weapons and no military allowed to proclaim martial law in any sector of the US...

Dream on.

 

[DeletedUser36572]

Hang on, you first have to get to the living room.

The argument before that being called out as hypocritical was allowing someone in that living room but not with a gun

Now if allowing them in depended on whether they’re allowed to talk without just cause then yeah that would be hypocritical.

Okay ... Then thankfully you are consistent with your interpretation.

You don’t have to allow anyone in because you are allowed to self-govern your private property. Hence, public accommodation laws don’t apply to your living room.

Plus ... You mentioned “just cause” ... And in regards to your private property and the priviledges you allow ... You are the judge and jury on what is “just cause”.

The same applies for any right someone may have and the privilege you may allow them to exercise that right/liberty on your property.

 

[DeletedUser36572]

Seriously? Have you ever lived in a developing country, or in an African Country? I have. You would be arrested and in jail, if not killed in at least half a dozen countries right now for making any statement hinting your government was corrupt. Your statement above would be used as “proof” in your trial for anti-social behavior, Try going to Moscow with a “Putin Sucks” T-shirt.

You have freedom of speech, you have the ability to access multiple sources of information, and you can publicly disagree with politicians, you are even able to insult them in print and in public. Try doing that in almost any country outside North America or Western Europe, and see what happens.

Everything I see from the so-called conservatives is whining over the pain they have to endure when forced to take any personal responsibly for the outcomes of their actions, The only driver is maximizing pleasure, doing "what I want when I want". This is combined with putting down, as aggressively as possible, any hint that they have an obligation to be socially responsible for the impact of their actions.

I am glad there are people who want to be public servants, such as cops, firefighters and yes, politicians. I am glad that there are still some people who believe there is honor is working on behalf of your country and community and for the public good, and that life is not just about how much one can win for themselves at any cost.

You have mistaken a false social obligation for personal responsibility.

For me to decide what you should do, and for you to comply (under threat of prosecution or persecution) ... Would in no way be a measure of your ability to demonstrate personal responsibility.

 

[Lannister the Rich]

You have mistaken a false social obligation for personal responsibility.

For me to decide what you should do, and for you to comply (under threat of prosecution or persecution) ... Would in no way be a measure of your ability to demonstrate personal responsibility.

what false social obligation? If you want to run for public office and at the same time grope little girls, that’s your personal responsibility to choose one. Like it or not, Social obligation has an effect on personal responsibility

 

[Lannister the Rich]

Wow, do you have things backwards. Conservatives avoiding personal responsibility? Yeah, we're all for that abortion thing.

Shall we go through the list of Conservatives found guilty of rape, sexual assault and misconduct? Who lied and desperately tried to save their own face during trial instead of coming clean and apologizing?

 

[RazorbackPirate]

what false social obligation? If you want to run for public office and at the same time grope little girls, that’s your personal responsibility to choose one. Like it or not, Social obligation has an effect on personal responsibility

Funny. Seems many of our public servants have not had to make that choice. Old 42, rode on Epstein's 'Lolita Express' more than 25 times. Worse, by your logic, as long as you don't run for public office, you're free to grope little girls? Really?

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Shall we go through the list of Conservatives found guilty of rape, sexual assault and misconduct? Who lied and desperately tried to save their own face during trial instead of coming clean and apologizing?

No need. I realize there are dirt-bag individuals on both side of the false D/R paradigm. As I said it's good vs. evil and with evil there is no bi-partisan compromise. I don't care if it's the Vice President, or a past President, if anyone, public servant or not, is, or has been in any way involved in child sex trafficking, human trafficking, SRA, etc. I want them all prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Too bad we're now essentially a lawless society. If we were still a nation of laws and interested in justice, Epstein would still be alive, sharing a cell with Bill Clinton.

 

[Lannister the Rich]

No need. I realize there are dirt-bag individuals on both side of the false D/R paradigm. As I said it's good vs. evil and with evil there is no bi-partisan compromise. I don't care if it's the Vice President, or a past President, if anyone, public servant or not, is, or has been in any way involved in child sex trafficking, human trafficking, SRA, etc. I want them all prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Too bad we're now essentially a lawless society. If we were still a nation of laws and interested in justice, Epstein would still be alive, sharing a cell with Bill Clinton.

You know Bill Clinton isn’t in jail, right? Do you mean Bill Cosby? Also, Epstein killed himself, probably because he was guilty and would rather death than face his prosecution.

Funny. Seems many of our public servants have not had to make that choice. Old 42, rode on Epstein's 'Lolita Express' more than 25 times. Worse, by your logic, as long as you don't run for public office, you're free to grope little girls? Really?

Also, wow. Way to take my example and twist it to attack my character. Of course, it’s not okay to do that in any situation. But what’s the probably the largest factor in contributing to that for those that would want to? Shame of being caught, i.e. social obligation.

Note that I said if you want to. Not everyone wants to because most people have a straight head on their shoulders

 

[DeletedUser36572]

what false social obligation? If you want to run for public office and at the same time grope little girls, that’s your personal responsibility to choose one. Like it or not, Social obligation has an effect on personal responsibility

Personal responsibility in not defined in social obligation. Social obligation is what someone is required to do (under threat of prosecution or persecution) by others.

If you choose to prosecute or persecute someone in regards to how you view their actions ... Then that is your choice ... And your approval is not actually a requirement of personal responsibility.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

You know Bill Clinton isn’t in jail, right? Do you mean Bill Cosby? Also, Epstein killed himself, probably because he was guilty and would rather death than face his prosecution.

No, I don't mean Bill Cosby. Yes, I know Bill Clinton is not in jail. Hence my assertion we no longer have justice in the US. Seem in fact, some people are above the law. As someone who flew on Epstein's 'Lolita Express' over 25 times and even hosted a private party on Epstein's 'Pedophile Island', Bill Clinton should be in jail. #ClintonBodyCount. As I said in an earlier post, suicide my behind.

Also, wow. Way to take my example and twist it to attack my character. Of course, it’s not okay to do that in any situation. But what’s the probably the largest factor in contributing to that for those that would want to? Shame of being caught, i.e. social obligation.

Note that I said if you want to. Not everyone wants to because most people have a straight head on their shoulders

No attack of your character, but as old BC has shown us with Epstein, and Hillary has shown us with her orchestrated Russia collusion coup attempt, there is no link to most of our public officials, their character public or private, and their fear of being caught. Please. How absurd. Are you really that naive?

 

[Lannister the Rich]

Personal responsibility in not defined in social obligation. Social obligation is what someone is required to do (under threat of prosecution or persecution) by others.

If you choose to prosecute or persecute someone in regards to how you view their actions ... Then that is your choice ... And your approval is not actually a requirement of personal responsibility.

If you don’t think shame has anything to do with how we view ourselves, or if fear of shame doesn’t change the way you behave, then you’re a rarity. It’s biological in our nature to fear seclusion and being outcasted. That shapes our personal responsibility, I say again, whether you like it or not.

 

[Lannister the Rich]

No, I don't mean Bill Cosby. Yes, I know Bill Clinton is not in jail. Hence my assertion we no longer have justice in the US. Seem in fact, some people are above the law. As someone who flew on Epstein's 'Lolita Express' over 25 times and even hosted a private party on Epstein's 'Pedophile Island', Bill Clinton should be in jail. #ClintonBodyCount. As I said in an earlier post, suicide my behind.

No attack of your character, but as old BC has shown us with Epstein, and Hillary has shown us with her orchestrated Russia collusion coup attempt, there is no link to most of our public officials, their character public or private, and their fear of being caught. Please. How absurd. Are you really that naive?

What do the Clintons possibly have to gain from whatever you’re alluding to...that they killed Epstein? Please. That’s absurd. And while we’re talking about Bill, what about Epstein’s other friend ol’ Donald Trump? Shouldn’t he be in jail too?

 

[DeletedUser36572]

If you don’t think shame has anything to do with how we view ourselves, or if fear of shame doesn’t change the way you behave, then you’re a rarity. It’s biological in our nature to fear seclusion and being outcasted. That shapes our personal responsibility, I say again, whether you like it or not.

The fear of prosecution or persecution is a social obligation.

Shame is a personal response that occurs when you fail to meet a social obligation. Your, or society’s, approval is not a requirement of personal responsibility. You keep talking about public accountability, and social obligations, which aren’t personal responsibiliy.

The inability to distinguish the two is a major indicator of how skewed society has become.

 

[Lannister the Rich]

The fear of prosecution or persecution is a social obligation.

Shame is a personal response that occurs when you fail to meet a social obligation. Your, or society’s, approval is not a requirement of personal responsibility. You keep talking about public accountability, and social obligations, which aren’t personal responsibiliy.

The inability to distinguish the two is a major indicator of how skewed society has become.

I see what you mean. However, I still disagree that @anyempire used personal responsibility incorrectly.

Everything I see from the so-called conservatives is whining over the pain they have to endure when forced to take any personal responsibly for the outcomes of their actions, The only driver is maximizing pleasure, doing "what I want when I want". This is combined with putting down, as aggressively as possible, any hint that they have an obligation to be socially responsible for the impact of their actions.

Personal Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your actions. Many of the most recent sexual assault allegations had two things in common: 1. The perp was conservative 2. And take no responsibility for their actions even after being found guilty. Anyone in the public eye has a social obligation to own up to their mistakes, and in that regard, it should be their personal responsibility to do so by the sheer want to be in public office. Otherwise, they do not deserve it.

 

[DeletedUser36572]

I see what you mean. However, I still disagree that @anyempire used personal responsibility incorrectly.

Personal Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your actions. Many of the most recent sexual assault allegations had two things in common: 1. The perp was conservative 2. And take no responsibility for their actions even after being found guilty. Anyone in the public eye has a social obligation to own up to their mistakes, and in that regard, it IS their personal responsibility to do so.

Accepting consequences imposed by others is accountability not responsibility. Abiding by the rules others make is compliance and not responsibility.

You have to distinguish the origin of personal responsibility (from within) ... It doesn’t come from what others or society require. In fact, you don’t ever have to come into contact with another human being to be personally responsible.

Thanks for trying to understand though ...