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Wildlife Event 2021 Feedback

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I love that there are about 3-4 that are "subbed" to me, just so you can argue with everything I post. ;) Very flattering and thoughtful that yall offer so much rent-free living space. <3
Don't flatter yourself. I am "subbed" to every forum user. Comes with the job.
 

Pericles the Lion

Active Member
From @PenguinPat "When people make purchase decisions about events, they use the information provided from Beta and from content creators; inno knows this. If I had come out with the math saying it was 2 freebies, Inno owes no one anything. Inno offered to put their backing behind MooingCat, and he accepted it. While not an official source, there is implied trust. It's like inno saying "we trust him enough to put him on our official channel, so you can trust this source." "

I've been playing for less than a year but I've observed that events are designed to provide 1 fully levelled building for free - assuming reasonably adequate gameplay. When MooingCat suggested that it was possible to get 2 fully upgraded Mountain Reserves for free I was highly doubtful. Why would INNO design a game to give away a 2nd building when they know players will spend diamonds to get there. Makes no sense. At the beginning it was clear that INNO nerfed the 6hr refresh and it only took a few days to realize the 1/day incident ticket was not happening. I adjusted my play accordingly. As expected, 1 free building and a 2nd for fewer than 10K diamonds. Typical.
 

Ironrooster

Active Member
Well, I have to say this event has gone well.
On my 3 worlds I already have 8, 7, and 7 levels with a good chance at another 1 or 2 more each in the minigame plus the final quest level.
As a bonus I picked up 6 levels of the Olympic Treasury on my world that needed 2 more levels to max out.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
After my totally complaining about the Event I can happily say I managed to slog through it. The big joyful noises were for the Olympic Treasuries and Sentinel Outposts as secondaries. The mini game is so endless I got piles of those Dailies. Naturally I spent money. But the results were decent. in relation to the money I spent on previous Events. So this event was not the "Bog of Eternal Stench" II thought at first. So I apologize for all my whining.
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
When people make purchase decisions about events, they use the information provided from Beta and from content creators; inno knows this. If I had come out with the math saying it was 2 freebies, Inno owes no one anything. Inno offered to put their backing behind MooingCat, and he accepted it. While not an official source, there is implied trust. It's like inno saying "we trust him enough to put him on our official channel, so you can trust this source."

So how the world works is that people get very frustrated when an inno backed/trusted source gives them bad information. (Not unlike when Mods are mistaken and say things like the abort limit was targeting RQ players, not botters- and then later in a Q&A session, the devs confirm that it was targeting bot users.. :cool:)

It could have/should have been prevented, Whether it's allowed or profitable or not, Inno used players' trust in Moo as a source to bait players into spending on the event. If players knew it was going to take 8k-12k diamonds instead of 0-4k to get a second fully upgraded building, a lot of players would not have spent $ or diamonds. People from inno's media team watched the video and knew what he said. At the very least, they could have told him they were making a change, so he could correct his numbers or give a disclaimer.
I know of no special relationship between Mooingcat and Inno. To me, he's just another FoE content creator. That Inno uses hid videos instead of producing their own speak more to Inno being lazy and outsourcing, than any special trust in the person they outsourced to. Unless there's some contractual agreement we don't know about that affords him special access, he's just another guy with an opinion and a spreadsheet.

As far as purchase decision, I wasn't out to male one regardless. But I did click on the click-baity title to see what he had to say, and when I saw the numbers he was throwing I clicked out, not even 1/4 of the way in. Why? Looking at the stats of the building and thinking to myself, "That's not happening." and clicked away.
Since the Archology 2020 / Checkmate Square nonsense, I usually put a disclaimer that things can and do change from Beta to live. This change was bigger than other I can think of.
Big or not, unless contractually agreed to, Inno owes no explanation of changes to anyone.
Note: Changes like this help my channel grow, so for selfish reasons, it wasn't a big deal to me. I even will get my 3rd Eagle mountain with $0 spent despite still having only collected 1 ticket from incidents across all my 7 worlds.
Good for you and you channel.
I love that there are about 3-4 that are "subbed" to me, just so you can argue with everything I post. ;) Very flattering and thoughtful that yall offer so much rent-free living space. <3
I also love how you tack this onto the reply to me without clarifying that I am not, nor have ever been a subscriber of yours here on the forum or on any of your channels. Let the record show the above statement does not, and has never, applied to me.:mad:
 

Tannerite2

Member
I know of no special relationship between Mooingcat and Inno. To me, he's just another FoE content creator. That Inno uses hid videos instead of producing their own speak more to Inno being lazy and outsourcing, than any special trust in the person they outsourced to. Unless there's some contractual agreement we don't know about that affords him special access, he's just another guy with an opinion and a spreadsheet.
MooingCat has videos on the official InnoGames youtube channel like this one: youtube.com/watch?v=TZpBLycpV2o
There are also ingame announcements for some of his videos. That seems pretty official to me. Even if it's not, it looks official which is the issue here. It tricks players into believing MooingCat is more than just a content creator.

Big or not, unless contractually agreed to, Inno owes no explanation of changes to anyone.
Correct, InnoGames is not contractually obligated. That always seems to be your line around here, but nobody is saying they are legally obligated to give us anything. People are saying that it was unfair and immoral of InnoGames to bait and switch like they did. Something being legal does not make it morally right.
 

ZeeAnn

New Member
I agree. I hate this game. The tools are way out of line expensive, and it takes an inordinate amount of time to try to figure out the best way to click each set of blocks to get a drop where you want it, and then the lack of tools makes a lot of it go belly up in the last row anyways. It's like playing chess you have to think so far ahead. I don't have time for that at all, so I'm skating through it without any expectation of achieving the event building.
Okay, I have to apologize to the game, because yeah, I didn't try really hard, and still I'm getting the building. But I do think the first rank of puzzles were so hard that we got discouraged, but then later, they gave away the paws easier and were more readily available (do they read these forums? LOL) and I have enough to finish the game and get the building without spending money. So that's a good thing.
 

Pickleweasel

Active Member
It would be nice if the ticket refresh timer was on the game board screen, as well (or anywhere else). Occasionally it makes sense to leave a game in progress until more coins are acquired, but then the timer is not accessible.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
MooingCat has videos on the official InnoGames youtube channel like this one: youtube.com/watch?v=TZpBLycpV2o
There are also ingame announcements for some of his videos. That seems pretty official to me. Even if it's not, it looks official which is the issue here. It tricks players into believing MooingCat is more than just a content creator.
This is a perfect example of taking a set of facts and making them mean something they do not. If nothing else, this experience shows that MooingCat is just another content creator with no special access or information. If you got tricked it happened in your mind.

I not only didn't I get tricked, I didn't even finish the video.
Correct, InnoGames is not contractually obligated. That always seems to be your line around here, but nobody is saying they are legally obligated to give us anything. People are saying that it was unfair and immoral of InnoGames to bait and switch like they did. Something being legal does not make it morally right.
Inno can only be held to the agreements they have made, not the agreements you want them to make. There was no bait and switch, Inno made no promises other than what was in the event announcement. All the rest is stuff you made up. Sorry to those who got duped by MooingCat and made decisions based on his erroneous advice.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
MooingCat has videos on the official InnoGames youtube channel like this one: youtube.com/watch?v=TZpBLycpV2o
There are also ingame announcements for some of his videos. That seems pretty official to me.
I can see this point, and Inno should probably stop endorsing or even appearing to endorse a "content creator". BUT anybody who's played this game for more than a couple of Events should know that Inno has not, does not, and will not allow players to get 2 full Event buildings for free. That's never happened in the history of this game. These players and content creators should also know that things get modified when they move from beta to live.

So I do agree that Inno shares a bit of culpability for appearing to endorse that YouTuber, but only a bit. I hold the content creator more responsible for passing off information he should've known wasn't right. And I hold experienced players who believed it wholly responsible for their own outcome; they definitely should've known better, as RP and others did. I hold beta players responsible if they look at beta as anything more than a test bed, 'cause that's all it is.

Nobody was tricked, nobody was baited, and there was certainly nothing "immoral". How melodramatic! It was a comedy of errors. I do feel a bit for new players who haven't been through an Event yet, who fell for the misinformation from YouTubers. But for the most part this thing is about people who should've known better, being embarrassed because they acted like they didn't.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
The change wasn't wrong. The lack of announcement for such a dramatic change was wrong and misleading (especially since FOE's sponsored YouTuber told everyone it was 15-18 tickets per world). The point of a changelog is to let players know what changed. Large stealth changes are crap.
I have watched that video several times now. All he says is that incidents can give you tickets. Nowhere does he mention how many. He also never mentions the number of free full level buildings you can get. Beats me how Ino is "tricking" people.
 

iPenguinPat

Active Member
1) This is a feedback thread. My feedback is the event rewards were balanced and fair. Maybe too much benefit for players that are very good at the minigame and too little for those that are awful at it. While beta is for testing, it's unusual for there to be dramatic changes from beta to live. In fact, DS changes are the only ones I can recall. Would have been easy enough to tack the changes onto the beta daily changelog like the other changes noted.

2) MooingCat published a dozen videos on the wildlife event. By far his most popular (3x as much as the next closest) was Forge of Empires: 2021 Wildlife Event - Two Mountain Reserves For Free!? Cost Estimate For Reserves!

@ 6:09 "on beta so far, with 3 days left, I have received 18 tickets.... so I think 15 is conservative"
@ 13:46 "Using my numbers for me, getting 2 MR for free is possible. I will get close to it.." "if I get a few more tickets [from incidents].. I've gotten eighteen so far." "with me and the way i play, i think i will probably be able to get 2 MR for free"

21.7k views to date... (for ref, this feedback has 7k views with a bunch of people smashing refresh. The announcement has less than 4k views)

Pretty easy to imagine a player thinking they prob won't be as good as moo at the minigame, but that they could reasonably get the full second MR for say.. less than 4000-5000. Whereas I'm hearing everything from 9600 to as high as 20k for a second one.

3) FOE Soccer Cup 2019, it was easy to get 3 Fully upgraded Altar Garden for free. (Obviously not comparable as MR is much better). Also, in the Halloween 2020 Event, it was possible to get 2 fully upgraded HOH either free or very cheap. That's a very comparable building.

4) So far, inno tends to make the first year of a new event very good for rewards, then dial it back. Archeology Even 2019 was INSANE for daily prizes. Got 42 Caros for about 8k gems. Maybe less. It was nuts. To make the event more popular, it would not have been unusual for the event to be very good.

5) Summer of 2020, Inno approached me to do the same thing as moo. It was paid. I'm pretty sure most mod positions are unpaid, so that would make Moo a paid source of information. And he's framed as the event expert in the official videos. The contract they sent me had stipulations that would have required me to make corrections or remove content I published about Forge at their request. Doesn't mean he has the same offer. Just a point of reference.

So in my opinion, it was bad public relations and business to make the changes knowing that players would be budgeting their diamonds based on beta, like they always do... Obviously still profitable though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
2) MooingCat published a dozen videos on the wildlife event. By far his most popular (3x as much as the next closest) was Forge of Empires: 2021 Wildlife Event - Two Mountain Reserves For Free!? Cost Estimate For Reserves!

@ 6:09 "on beta so far, with 3 days left, I have received 18 tickets.... so I think 15 is conservative"
@ 13:46 "Using my numbers for me, getting 2 MR for free is possible. I will get close to it.." "if I get a few more tickets [from incidents].. I've gotten eighteen so far." "with me and the way i play, i think i will probably be able to get 2 MR for free"

21.7k views to date... (for ref, this feedback has 7k views with a bunch of people smashing refresh. The announcement has less than 4k views)

Pretty easy to imagine a player thinking they prob won't be as good as moo at the minigame, but that they could reasonably get the full second MR for say.. less than 4000-5000. Whereas I'm hearing everything from 9600 to as high as 20k for a second one.
Thanks for clarifying.

That video he posted on June 22nd and not on an Inno channel. Event started July 13th. He would not have been aware of any changes at that time, so that video is solely directed at beta.

His video on the Inno channel was posted on July 13th. That was the Inno promoted video. That video does not mention 15 to 18 tickets or 2 Reserves.
 
Final feedback on Wildlife event

This event is maybe not enjoyable for some/most players, but it is fair. Personally, I like it, but I enjoy strategy games and it was different from other mini-games in FoE. I appreciated the effort to try a new approach to the mini-games.

It is absolutely feasible to get a fully leveled building, with no diamonds. It's much like Backgammon: there’s an element of luck, but use of a good strategy increases the number of Paws you might win, especially over multiple boards. Yeah, a bit of a learning curve. But with all the advice and hints on the forum, even those struggling at first had a real chance to catch up and still get enough Paws over the event to get a free, fully leveled event building.

NB: I've played a bit under 3 years, virtually daily, on 3 servers (EN, Beta, USA). Nowhere near a FOE expert, but over that time, IMHO, Inno largely plays it fair. Yes, they’ve made a couple of bone-headed decisions, what company doesn’t? But as F2P, they give a lot so that those not paying can still get almost everything a P2P player can, if on a slower pace. Pretty darn good.
 

CDmark

Active Member
A guildmate asked me if I thought another L1 Sentinel was coming for a daily special. I told him I didnt know, ask MooingCat...lol But, I took a look at Beta versus Live, just an exercise I do, even bet guildmates FPs (hope I didnt violate some rule on page 74). I realize the Mooing Cat info was the hot topic, but I really didnt pay much attention to what he was saying in the videos, I was watching how to play the minigame. I have to admit, at first, I thought he lived between the Lucky Charms cereal manufacturing plant and a horse shoe factory, never saw anyone luckier. But, I did have good games too, esp after I got the rhythm down.

So, Daily Specials. Well, it breaks down to this, a lot of changes, Beta versus Live and 2 days left (note, I fully realize Inno can change whatever they want and really dont care when they do, they could even give us nothing one time, like a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking)

Beta 2 Menagerie Live so far 1
(Menagerie was on day one and many times they repeat the day one special, and it is a special building, many times you see them twice)
Beta 2 Log Cabins Live so far 1
(special buildings typically show up 2X)

Beta 2 Medals, 2 Store, 3 Mass Aid Live 1 Medals, 1 Store, 2 Mass Aid
(that makes 3 short in the live event)
BUT we got 1 SOK, 1 Olympic Treasury Selection Kit and 1 extra Sentinel Upgrade (so plus 3 for live event)

So, I gave my guildmate a 22.64% chance of seeing the Sentinel L1 (that included his 5% guildmate - "hope he gets it" bonus). Many times I have seen them pair things equally, like L1 and upgrades as specials, sometimes they dont.

Other changes I saw,
2 hr mass supply went to 6 hr mass supply in live (2 times in each beta and live, 0.05% of seeing again)
Beta had 2-1Ups, Live had 1-1Up and 1 Reno kit (Reno kit is in almost every event as a special and 0.03% chance of seeing either one again)

Funny, ALL the changes were improvements. Had the changes been the opposite, worse, I have a feeling we would be on page 45
 

thekyle

Member
Final thoughts-
I was honestly surprised that I managed to get all the upgrades in the 2 cities I tried in. Including one extra upgrade in my primary city. All without diamond use. So that was a plus.

In my farm towns I lucked out with a day off while well shrinks were on offer so I got a few. Not as many as other events had offered but some.

I genuinely dont enjoy the block breaker game. I'm not spending my last tickets in any farm I dont have to because I find it tedious and headache inducing.

The tools were less useful than their value implies. I saved coins for the big package in my main city but then because of my forced usage of the tickets on a timer I wound up with a lot of tools and few tickets well after the prizes I wanted were offered. Meanwhile in my farm towns I would pay to continue boards with easy chests and that's where I earned my well shrinks. So the tools almost felt like a trap I should have avoided.

I stand by my claim that tickets on a timer is a design flaw for a game built around patience and saving resources. You are certainly forced to use almost all of them to get the main prize, not one of my farm towns got remotely close as a result.

I don't know if this is bad luck or if it was programming but out of 8 cities that refreshed the prizes daily I never saw the Olympic Treasurey offerd in any city until after it was put on the primary daily prize. That seemed odd to me as since then most of my cities have refreshed into it again.


Overall I'll give it a 7/10 for the rewards earned. And a 2/10 for enjoyment.

I got what I wanted. But less than usual. And simply dont enjoy the minigame.


The crybabies on the first 5 pages won't come back and admit they are wrong, at least most of them. they will just come back next event and claim how bad that one going to be. rinse and repeat.
Does that meet your satisfaction?

I do look forward to the next event. The Summer events big wheel has historically been my favorite.
Profitable, interactive, strategic and clean. - what a good event should be.