DeletedUser24502
Yep, pretty much just as boring as "real" soccer.
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Algona
Well-Known Member
Some people don't use all 24 FP in a day. Right. So what? That is their choice and I'm fine with their choice. Same thing applies to Shots. Some folk won't use them all. Again, so what? The opportunity is there for anyone playing even half time to accumulate 4000 cups. That's still 10 watchfires. So, yeah, folk can win meaningful prizes. Remember the point I was refuting of yours?
"of course you can, and then the event becomes pretty much meaningless and boring with very little rewards. i am just saying that there is a possibility that someone gets nothing from the event."
Meaningless and boring are in the eye of the beholder. 10 - 20 watchfires seem like more than very little rewards. I suppose someone could miss 100% of hundreds of shots, well it's too bad for those people. (Anyone wanna take a stab at the probability of a half time player missing 400 shots for each of the three shots?)
Your second paragraph is ridiculous. Destroy games? INNO seems to have made it through the 2014 Soccer Event. And the other (dozen?) Events of this general type. Ruin parent's credit cards? Why is this Event different than any other? Are you really calling INNO the devil? And then going on to say that you want to play the Devil's game?
Third paragraph... You want to take part 'in the fun of gambling', but you want the Devil to give you back some of your stake when you lose? To avoid heartbreak?
Go back and read the 2015 Easter Event Feedback Thread. (I did, see post 2 in the 2016 Easter Event Feedback Thread.) Very few (if any?) people complained about not having enough friends. INNO changed the Easter Event because people were complaining about having to put decos in their cities and that Aid was getting screwed up.
Ace, I appreciate, understand, and have no problem with you not liking some aspects of this Event. I just disagree with your conclusions.
DeletedUser10789
Hey Mike,
First, I am happy to see there are players out there like myself, who like the game and enjoy it. There are many things we agree on and I am sure some not so much. Anyway, while I am in the "Soccer" camp (as I like the event in general), there should be tweaks like some of the events and if "the game" were to do a few simple or basic things these event would all be great. These events are in fact, FREE and like the Guild Expedition (which I love) who does not like free things or be rewarded for your effort. I believe that is the general argument here that some do not feel rewarded because it is more of a "game of chance". Like I said before, nearly all of "the games" events are games of chance as well. Still, they are free and I am thankful but again I really wonder why this game cannot get better help to design a true players game. Maybe, the sales and marketing department does not speak to the developers and vice versa. Still, there is a beta forum and feedback threads where the game asks for players feedback, yet they seem to not even listen to it or take any of it and changes to the game. It is sad, as the game can really be a lot better and there are many players with great ideas. I truly believe the issue and problem is that the developers do not play the game and/or do not share a passion for the game as do the players of it. If they really listened to us players, this would be a great game, as it stands now, there is a lot of things that need to be improved.
Now if you want to read some really fun and informative information, go and read the Easter Event Feedback and then the Arctic Age Feedback as well. I am sure you will laugh and provide many hours of laughing. Enjoy and have fun,
Steve - LordStevie
First, I am happy to see there are players out there like myself, who like the game and enjoy it. There are many things we agree on and I am sure some not so much. Anyway, while I am in the "Soccer" camp (as I like the event in general), there should be tweaks like some of the events and if "the game" were to do a few simple or basic things these event would all be great. These events are in fact, FREE and like the Guild Expedition (which I love) who does not like free things or be rewarded for your effort. I believe that is the general argument here that some do not feel rewarded because it is more of a "game of chance". Like I said before, nearly all of "the games" events are games of chance as well. Still, they are free and I am thankful but again I really wonder why this game cannot get better help to design a true players game. Maybe, the sales and marketing department does not speak to the developers and vice versa. Still, there is a beta forum and feedback threads where the game asks for players feedback, yet they seem to not even listen to it or take any of it and changes to the game. It is sad, as the game can really be a lot better and there are many players with great ideas. I truly believe the issue and problem is that the developers do not play the game and/or do not share a passion for the game as do the players of it. If they really listened to us players, this would be a great game, as it stands now, there is a lot of things that need to be improved.
Now if you want to read some really fun and informative information, go and read the Easter Event Feedback and then the Arctic Age Feedback as well. I am sure you will laugh and provide many hours of laughing. Enjoy and have fun,
Steve - LordStevie
DeletedUser
This event is huge for people who are within a year of starting a world. The medals you can get can get you so many expansions its insane
cbalto1927
Active Member
You got it on the mark, I spent cups on 2 large medal packages to get my final victory expansion. I hope Inno adds more victory expansion for the final age of the game ( Far Arctic age). As it stands now, i reached the end for victory expansions.
DeletedUser26268
A few of the prizes in the Golden Chest are rather frustrating.
Does anyone know how many shots the "shot package" has in it? Is it just 5? If so, that's abysmal and I feel for anyone who "wins" that.
Does anyone know how many shots the "shot package" has in it? Is it just 5? If so, that's abysmal and I feel for anyone who "wins" that.
DeletedUser8152
Yes, a shot package has 5 shots.
DeletedUser9184
Nope, was referring to the AF premium which costs 750 diamonds. 10K cups for 4K diamonds = 900 Cups for 360 diamonds which is less than half of the price. That is simple math (and a simple response
).DeletedUser23444
Wow, I'm sensing lots of vitriol in a lot of the feedback posted so far.
I am going to raise two items of negative feedback that have not been mentioned yet. The first item falls under the category of software engineering, rather than game design. The second item is completely nefarious IMO.
Issue 1
All times a player normally sees in the game are in that player's own time zone. This includes things like: Global Chat, Neighborhood Chat, Guild Chat, the Message Center, the Guild Forum, The Daily Calculation Countdown Timer and GvG event logs. Any time any message is posted anywhere, the player sees the time as translated to his or her own time zone.
By contrast, the scrolling marquee at the bottom of the Soccer Cup event window is Martian Time. I play on a server hosted in the United States, I would expect to see at least one of the 4 time zones that exist in the Continental United States. The times shown next to players names noting who in the neighborhood scored however many cups have 0 meaning to anyone in the United States—they are not even remotely close to the current time in any of the 4 most commonly used time zones in the Continental USA. If the developers could get this time conversion consistently correct in every other place in the game except for this special event, why not in this dialog?
Issue 2
The Soccer Cup Event uses a familiar currency bar concept that Inno Games has used often in FoE: routinely for hourly forge points, and in other special event such as for hourly Easter Eggs. I have no problems with this general construct—players earn/produce/regenerate 1 unit of said currency on the currency bar for each passing hour of Real Life. Players must also spend enough units of said currency before the bar is maxed out to capacity; otherwise, all hourly production of said currency is halted until the currency bar has room to accumulate more units. Anyone and everyone who has played FOE should readily get the concept so far.
On the Forge Point bar (which players use every day since they joined the game) is a little "+" icon on the right end, If a player clicks that "+" icon, they open a "Get Forge Points" dialog where the player can find options to:
• Buy forge points with coins
• Buy forge points with diamonds
• Redeem any previously scored forge point packs they have in their inventory.
NOTE: If the player has no previously scored forge point packs, the row of options to redeem FP packs will be missing from the dialog. This is a significant aspect to this dialog.
The Soccer Cup Shot bar also has a little "+" icon on the right end. Any FoE player will reasonably and intuitively presume that clicking that "+" icon, should offer them a similar dialog as for forge points and they will naturally and habitually expect to see similar options the game provides to acquire more Soccer Cup Shots as they are presented when clicking the "+" icon on the Forge Point bar. Instead, clicking the "+" icon on the Soccer Cup Shot bar opens a "Buy Shots" dialog that only presents the player these options:
• Buy 1 shot with 10 diamonds
• Buy 4 shots with 40 diamonds
NOTE: This dialog completely obscures any chance to redeem any shot packages the player may have scored in the FOE Soccer Cup event either from completing the quests or from scoring shot packages by buying and opening a Golden Chest.
Observation/Opinions:
A. Players will have formed a habit of reliance on this GUI construct of clicking the "+" icon on the Soccer Cup Shot bar, which is a GUI convention that Inno Games has already utilized in two other places within the game.
B. As pointed out by others in this topic, Inno Games seems to have designed this event to be seemingly much heavier on the gambling aspect than some other events (this from the perspectives of more than half of all player who took time to give feedback here) . To be fair, the perceived degree of gambling aspect versus skill aspect is subjective and debatable. However, what is indisputable is that there is a gambling aspect to this event. And it is well documented scientifically that gambling stimulates certain chemical reactions in the human brain and affects a human's psychology and decision making. This aspect of gambling is certainly not lost on game designers—they quite intentionally use it when designing games, as they should.
C. Inno Games has intentionally omitted (and I mean intentionally designed out) any option for the player to redeem his previously scored shot packages in the dialog that is readily accessible from the Soccer Cup Shot bar. And as discussed above this is a game construct that nearly all FoE players will most likely intuitively click on to redeem their previously scored shot packages. It will appear to the player that they have no shot packages to redeem, because that is the designed behavior players have become habitually reliant upon in "Get more FPs" dialog. But the option to redeem shot packs is not provided at all, ever, even if the player has accumulated hundreds of shot packages.
Connecting the Dots by Adding A+B+C Together:
When a player opens the Soccer Cup event and sees that some shot option in their neighborhood currently has an incredibly-high payout at that moment, and they also see their bar is empty, they are very likely to click the "+" icon at the right end of the Soccer Cup Shot bar to try and redeem any shot packages they previously scored. Why? because of the reliance players have already built up on this mechanic and GUI construct that was previously implemented in the Forge Point currency Bar. However, instead of being presented with the option to redeem their previously scored shot packs, the player is presented only with options to spend Diamonds (which in this game essentially means spend real money).
So while the player is in the throes of excitement, and stimulated by the socially engineered gambling aspect of the Soccer Cup event, Inno Games intentionally obscures from the player's view any current stockpile of shot packages that player previously scored, and instead only gives the player an avenue to spend more money on the game. Inno Games is clearly and indisputably resulting to obfuscation and trickery in order to drive up sales of diamonds.
<mic drop>
EDIT: correct typo "except" changed to "expect"
I am going to raise two items of negative feedback that have not been mentioned yet. The first item falls under the category of software engineering, rather than game design. The second item is completely nefarious IMO.
Issue 1
All times a player normally sees in the game are in that player's own time zone. This includes things like: Global Chat, Neighborhood Chat, Guild Chat, the Message Center, the Guild Forum, The Daily Calculation Countdown Timer and GvG event logs. Any time any message is posted anywhere, the player sees the time as translated to his or her own time zone.
By contrast, the scrolling marquee at the bottom of the Soccer Cup event window is Martian Time. I play on a server hosted in the United States, I would expect to see at least one of the 4 time zones that exist in the Continental United States. The times shown next to players names noting who in the neighborhood scored however many cups have 0 meaning to anyone in the United States—they are not even remotely close to the current time in any of the 4 most commonly used time zones in the Continental USA. If the developers could get this time conversion consistently correct in every other place in the game except for this special event, why not in this dialog?
Issue 2
The Soccer Cup Event uses a familiar currency bar concept that Inno Games has used often in FoE: routinely for hourly forge points, and in other special event such as for hourly Easter Eggs. I have no problems with this general construct—players earn/produce/regenerate 1 unit of said currency on the currency bar for each passing hour of Real Life. Players must also spend enough units of said currency before the bar is maxed out to capacity; otherwise, all hourly production of said currency is halted until the currency bar has room to accumulate more units. Anyone and everyone who has played FOE should readily get the concept so far.
On the Forge Point bar (which players use every day since they joined the game) is a little "+" icon on the right end, If a player clicks that "+" icon, they open a "Get Forge Points" dialog where the player can find options to:
• Buy forge points with coins
• Buy forge points with diamonds
• Redeem any previously scored forge point packs they have in their inventory.
NOTE: If the player has no previously scored forge point packs, the row of options to redeem FP packs will be missing from the dialog. This is a significant aspect to this dialog.
The Soccer Cup Shot bar also has a little "+" icon on the right end. Any FoE player will reasonably and intuitively presume that clicking that "+" icon, should offer them a similar dialog as for forge points and they will naturally and habitually expect to see similar options the game provides to acquire more Soccer Cup Shots as they are presented when clicking the "+" icon on the Forge Point bar. Instead, clicking the "+" icon on the Soccer Cup Shot bar opens a "Buy Shots" dialog that only presents the player these options:
• Buy 1 shot with 10 diamonds
• Buy 4 shots with 40 diamonds
NOTE: This dialog completely obscures any chance to redeem any shot packages the player may have scored in the FOE Soccer Cup event either from completing the quests or from scoring shot packages by buying and opening a Golden Chest.
Observation/Opinions:
A. Players will have formed a habit of reliance on this GUI construct of clicking the "+" icon on the Soccer Cup Shot bar, which is a GUI convention that Inno Games has already utilized in two other places within the game.
B. As pointed out by others in this topic, Inno Games seems to have designed this event to be seemingly much heavier on the gambling aspect than some other events (this from the perspectives of more than half of all player who took time to give feedback here) . To be fair, the perceived degree of gambling aspect versus skill aspect is subjective and debatable. However, what is indisputable is that there is a gambling aspect to this event. And it is well documented scientifically that gambling stimulates certain chemical reactions in the human brain and affects a human's psychology and decision making. This aspect of gambling is certainly not lost on game designers—they quite intentionally use it when designing games, as they should.
C. Inno Games has intentionally omitted (and I mean intentionally designed out) any option for the player to redeem his previously scored shot packages in the dialog that is readily accessible from the Soccer Cup Shot bar. And as discussed above this is a game construct that nearly all FoE players will most likely intuitively click on to redeem their previously scored shot packages. It will appear to the player that they have no shot packages to redeem, because that is the designed behavior players have become habitually reliant upon in "Get more FPs" dialog. But the option to redeem shot packs is not provided at all, ever, even if the player has accumulated hundreds of shot packages.
Connecting the Dots by Adding A+B+C Together:
When a player opens the Soccer Cup event and sees that some shot option in their neighborhood currently has an incredibly-high payout at that moment, and they also see their bar is empty, they are very likely to click the "+" icon at the right end of the Soccer Cup Shot bar to try and redeem any shot packages they previously scored. Why? because of the reliance players have already built up on this mechanic and GUI construct that was previously implemented in the Forge Point currency Bar. However, instead of being presented with the option to redeem their previously scored shot packs, the player is presented only with options to spend Diamonds (which in this game essentially means spend real money).
So while the player is in the throes of excitement, and stimulated by the socially engineered gambling aspect of the Soccer Cup event, Inno Games intentionally obscures from the player's view any current stockpile of shot packages that player previously scored, and instead only gives the player an avenue to spend more money on the game. Inno Games is clearly and indisputably resulting to obfuscation and trickery in order to drive up sales of diamonds.
<mic drop>
EDIT: correct typo "except" changed to "expect"
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DeletedUser8152
I'm fairly sure that the time in thee marquee gives the number of minutes and seconds that have passed since that player won that prize. So it is not a time zone time at all.
I would also like if if you could spend shot packages from the shot bar. As it stands you have to go to your inventory to do it.
DeletedUser6365
does anyone here read?!?!
the whole point of the 24 hours thing was just to say that just because the shots were available, doesn't mean it is realistic that people are going to get that much. if you would have read the start of the whole argument, you would have realized this.
and yes, i have seen tactics like this destroy games. this is the only event of this type, so not sure what you are talking about. every other event that has a gambling type feel gives you something, be it as weak as coins, common housing, military buildings, ect. since you can walk away with nothing, there is a better chance that people will continue to chase, hence the destroying credit cards thing. i explained this already but i guess you didn't read it. i also said that this doesn't make INNO the devil, again please read if you are going to disagree with what i said.
i honestly don't care about the event. i don't have room in my city for much else and i am not as active any more because the game got boring. the main thing that gets me to log back on is events, which i assume is their purpose. i'm just trying to make the event an enjoyable experience for everyone, so that people that are on the fence about the game don't come back for the event and end up even more discouraged. events are supposed to be fun, and this event is the only one i feel that leaves people unhappy in the end. it did during the last one, and it will again.
DeletedUser10076
This has got to be the most over-analyzed thread I think I ever seen.
The event is fine...again pot odds peeps pot odds and you won't get every jackpot but you'll do well
The event is fine...again pot odds peeps pot odds and you won't get every jackpot but you'll do well
DeletedUser10076
iamtheemperor
Active Member
Before you put on your tinfoil hat and declare some Inno/Illuminati conspiracy, here are some inconvenient truths:
1. The ability to use forge point packs from the forge point bar has not always existed in the browser version.
2. The ability to use forge point packs from the forge point bar does not currently, nor has it ever existed in the mobile version.
<mic drop>
qaccy
Well-Known Member
Perhaps if you live on the east coast of the US or are otherwise in that timezone, but I'm on the west coast and this is not true for me. Chat displays the proper time, but the city event log and message center are 3 hours ahead, consistent with US Eastern time. As an aside, the GvG event log and the game's various countdown timers do not display actual times anyway and thus they're not really 'included' in your point.
iamtheemperor
Active Member
If by "only event of this type" you mean the only event with a soccer theme, then you are correct. If you mean it's the only event where you are given a special type of currency and then spend it on a chance at a prize, then I'm sorry, but that is every event. And there is a way to guarantee a prize every time... press the button for the 100% shot. Just because you find that particular shot boring, doesn't negate the reality of its existence nor the reality that it's a guaranteed way to get prizes. And for that matter, I don't really see how pressing one button is more boring than pressing another. They're all the same except a slight color variation.
To reiterate:
DeletedUser10415
It's 'military' time. I just scored 640 cups. The time was 2:15pm Eastern. Looking at the marquee, my score was recorded at 20:15. 2:15pm = 1415 'military'. Gotta add 600 as 2:15pm Eastern is 8:15pm in Germany. 1415 + 600 = 2015, or as shown in this event 20:15.
Algona
Well-Known Member
You are right, I missed the word not. I stand corrected and apologize. You did not call INNO the devil.
Let's go back and look at what I originally objected to one more time.
You seem to have disagreed with everything I have said. I blew the devil thing, maybe I am wrong here as well? I need some clarification.
Can you tell me how a player could get nothing from this Event? If it’s because they don’t make enough shots to earn enough cups to buy a good prize or two, can you share any analysis you did?
Could you please specify what you mean by meaningless’ and ‘very little rewards’?
I can’t disagree with ‘boring’, it’s too subjective.
----------
Regarding what I think are the two other objecrtions I think you have:
1) Potential for problems due to the gambling nature of the Event. I disagree with you, I think it’s ridiculous for someone to worry about unless they personally have a gambling problem. My reasoning is that there has been no indication of this kind of problem in previous similar Events in this game.
2) Getting cups for missed shots. I disagree here as well. I don’t like arguing by analogy, but the idea of walking into a casino and betting on 00 and asking to get some cash back if I lose seems preposterous.
I won’t bother responding to anything further on these two points. You have your view, I have mine.
If I got something wrong, I apologize in advance.
I look forward to your response to the questions I asked.
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DeletedUser23444
Actually, in other recent special events (going back over the last calendar year), such as: 2016 Easter Event, 2015 Winter Event, 2015 Summer Casino Event, this is the progression of events:
- Player completes a quest, or time passes (currency bar) to acquire special event gambling currency.
- Player spends special event gambling currency on one gamble. Some events offer more than one gamble, where each gamble costs a different amount of special event currency, each with a different % chance at a reward.
- The gamble results in winning some type of prize, out of a possible range of prizes. But for every gamble is some kind of prize; however it might not be a prize the player wants.
- In some events, the player is given an option to straight up purchase some prizes, either with special event gambling currency or with diamonds. However, these straight-up purchase prices often prove very cost prohibitive for many players and taking the gamble is always the cheaper, though much more risky, option.
- In all events, the player is given an option to purchase special event gambling currency with diamonds.
In the 2016 Soccer Cup Event, this is the progression of events:
- Player completes a quest, or time passes (currency bar) to acquire special event gambling currency.
- Player spends special event gambling currency (shot attempts) on one gamble. And just like other events, this one offers more than one gamble, where each gamble costs a different amount of special event currency, each with a different % chance at a reward.
- However, unlike other special events, the gamble does not and cannot result in winning any type of prize out of any range of possible prizes. Instead, this first gamble merely offers the player a chance to score a second type of special event currency (cups).
- Player spends this second special event gambling currency (cups) on one gamble (golden chest) to have a chance at scoring actual prizes.
- As in some other events, the player is also given an option to straight up purchase some prizes, with this second special event gambling currency (cups). However, these straight-up purchase prizes randomly show up every 6 hours. Furthermore, the items most players will covet often prove very cost prohibitive for many players.
- As in all other events, the player is given an option to purchase the first type of special event gambling currency (shots) with diamonds, but not the second type which actually leads to scoring prizes (cups).
So I believe the key difference, and issue, that many players are trying to express in this topic is that we earn one special event resource through skilled play or dedicated participation (shots), but that only gets us a random chance to score yet another special event resource—the one that really counts (cups). And there is no way a player can skillfully, or even by spending diamonds, to significantly increase their risk/reward ratio to scoring an actual prize the player might covet.
The counter argument to these player's reactions will be that a player can always spend shots on the 100% option. However, the risk/reward ratio of this "gamble" is so low in comparison to the cost of most prizes players will likely covet, that the 100% option does not even seem feasible enough to participate at that level. Again I remind everyone that this is the subjective perspective of many players, and as such is open to debate.
However, there is also a mathematical anomaly at work here: compounding probabilities.
Probability A is the a random chance a player has to score a sizable pile of cups. (I will exclude the 100% shot chance from this part of the discussion, since it can never score a player a sizable pile of cups—this scoring option is always fixed at 10 cups, while with all other options the prize of cups goes up every time a player misses a shot.
Probability B is the chance a player can log in and spend cups when a prize that he or she actually covets is available for sale, or the random chance to score a prize the player covets from the Golden Chest.
A player's total probably of scoring a prize he or she covets is then = Probability A * Probability B, which is a compound probability.
Here's a refresher of 6th grade mathematics:
Let's say to win Probability A you must roll a 1 one a 6-sided die, this means you have a 1-in-6 chance, or 16.67% , of winning Probability A.
Let's also say to win Probability B you must roll a 1 one a 6-sided die, this means you have a 1-in-6 chance, or 16.67% , of winning Probability B.
But not so fast!
In order to even attempt Probability B, you must have already won at Probability A (you must acquire enough cups to even attempt Probability B). Going back to our six-side dice examples, this means a player must roll snake eyes in order to score a single prize he or she covets. And that compounded probability is (1/6)^2 = (1/36) = (16.67%)^2 = 2.78%.
This is the actual, factual mathematical anomaly people are trying to express.
Now before anyone gets on the tear-the-theory apart bandwagon. I clearly have simplified the above example to use a 1-in-6 chance (six-sided die) for both Probability A and Probability B. Of course, these are not the actual % chances offered in the game. They are only used as simple examples, which most people can relate to, to show how a compounded probability can dramatically reduce a player's chance of winning something they covet.
Many humans will instinctively and intuitively arrive at a conclusion that the gambles offered in this event offer them no realistic chance of success. And this is the underlying root cause of many of the complaints many players are making about this event, in contrast to other events. The compounded probability tends to make many players view the event as more of a gamble, because mathematically it is more of gamble, because it takes 2 gambles, not one to score any prize at all.
Now again, I stress that what the chances of each probabilities should be is debatable, and the human perception of: "is the game fair" , or: is the game rigged" is highly subjective.
But there is some underlying mathematics, that when compared to the mathematics of other special events, lend credence to what some players feel about this event requiring more luck at gambling than skill at playing.
The odds are generally never in your favor.
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DeletedUser23444
This is not true. See Glarg's correct explanation below.
I know military time, I served. But my feedback and criticism still stands. It would be reasonable (in a game that already shows a player his or her own time zone everywhere else it is applicable) to show the player times in his own time zone; or, at the very least from one of the four USA time zones, since the player is playing on a USA server, not a German server. The times shown is clearly not from any of the four USA time zones, and as such is meaningless to most players playing on a USA server. Who in the USA will think of time in terms of German Time, GMT, or Zimbabwe Time? I simply and sarcastically boiled all of this down to "Martian Time", since to the player's perspective it is just as useless as expressing time in Martian Time.
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