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2000 Aborted quest limit per day

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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
What I found most interesting about Algona’s timeline is that it would seem to bring into question just how well Inno Games is leveraging the vast data they have access to. This forum is generous in the pervasive assumption that Inno Games knows, tracks, and analyzes everything we do meticulously. If they do, their reaction time on this topic ranges between 1 and 5 years for “exploits” that should have been very easy to flag (goods growth, quest aborts, battle growth, RP growth, whatever it is they are purportedly stopping). If we stick to the assumption that they are very in tune to their users and actions, then we are left with them deciding this wasn’t a problem for the game until it was a problem for them. If that is the case, it would seem a bit disingenuous for them to try and pin this change on the sudden realization that they setup a system ripe for over-usage by its most fervent users, rather than just admit they didn’t sufficiently build the architecture to support the game mechanics and user base it has built.
One day I woke up to find a gopher mound in my yard. I know a gopher mound in my yard is a problem, but it's also a pain in the rear to deal with, so I ignore it. I know eventually I'll have to deal with it, but it's a pain, I got better things to do, so I let it slide.

Two years later my yard looks like a gopher preserve and I've got the neighbor kids driving their RC four wheel monster trucks across my lawn, the perfect off road course to test their driving skills. I can no longer ignore the problem and have no choice but to go all Caddy Shack on my lawn.

Inno knew it was a problem, they watched the problem grow, when the problem got too big, they ended the problem. Now the gophers are here complaining it's not fair because they got to camp on the lawn for so long.

Nothing disingenuous about ignoring a problem until you cannot ignore it any longer.

FWIW - I didn't notify the gophers about the change in policy. I never explained the reasons why. I never entertained their complaints. I just ended the problem.

Even so, I'm rooting for the gophers.
 
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Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
The players that play the game the most and care the most about the game are the problem. The players most willing to invest time and energy and thought into the game are the problem!!!!
This is so rich with assumptions. :rolleyes:
Amazing how no matter if it's GvG, GBG or RQs, the proponents of these game features are always the best and most active and highest spending and most involved and <pick your favorite glowing adjective> players in the game. Absolutely amazing!!!!!
Regardless of why Inno Games implemented this limit, it likely doesn’t reflect well on them.
Viewpoints, buddy, viewpoint. From my viewpoint it is the most positive thing they've done for game balance in years.
None of the speculation so far has painted them in a good light, mostly some level of incompetence.
Well, with the exception of @Algona, all that speculation is from players who were part of the problem Inno was fixing, so...
That is probably why they have avoided drawing extra attention to this topic,
Or...they fixed the problem to their satisfaction and don't see a point to saying anything more, given the relatively mild player reaction overall.

I think @RazorbackPirate appropriately answered the rest of that post.
 

Lando6

Member
Or...they fixed the problem to their satisfaction and don't see a point to saying anything more, given the relatively mild player reaction overall.

Apparently a "mild" player reaction only leads to the longest thread in recent history.....BY A MILE. Please tell me what issue has created more responses than this in the last couple of years? I think you need to stop posting on this thread. You have nothing else relevant to add and your constant INNO butt kissing is getting down right disgusting. Just saying, from one gopher to another.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Apparently a "mild" player reaction only leads to the longest thread in recent history
With most of the posts being very repetitive and from the same 3 or 4 players...out of thousands. I can boil all 35 pages of this thread into three sentences. Heavy RQers: "The abort limit is unfair."
Non-Heavy RQers: "Sure it is."
@Algona: "Something fishy is going on with Inno lately."
Repeat ad infinitum.
Please tell me what issue has created more responses than this in the last couple of years?
GvG threads always generate tons of responses, and the GBG threads do the same.
I think you need to stop posting on this thread.
Luckily, I don't have to care what you think about my posting rights. Are you going to tell the 3 or 4 players who are posting at least as much as I am to stop? Or is it okay because you agree with them? That's what I thought.
You have nothing else relevant to add and your constant INNO butt kissing is getting down right disgusting.
"You have nothing else relevant to add and your constant Inno bashing is getting down right disgusting." There, just copy and paste that to all the complainers on this thread and you'll have achieved Forum balance.
Just saying, from one gopher to another.
I'm pretty sure that the gophers in @RazorbackPirate's analogy are the heavy RQers, of which I am not one, so...
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Please tell me what issue has created more responses than this in the last couple of years?

I'd put RQs somewhere around 8-12 on the list?

In the last two years GBG has dominated this forum. Thousands of posts across scores of threads.

Off the top of my head other frequently discussed topics include in no particular order Cultural Settlements, GvG, Plundering, Events, Bugs.

I suspect if INNO had actually told players about the Abort cap limit there would have been a lot more folk complaining.

This thread has a lot of unique posters in it. As do a lot of other topics.

Don't rightly know why you beat on JBG so much, its a waste of time, much meaner posters tried for a long time to no effect. JBG has always disliked RQs, goes back years to the HQS reformation wars. Ignore that bias and listen to what they have to say. It's worth the effort because that's what a lot of folk across the game will say if you ask them about this topic.

Disagree with JBG? Sure. Dismiss JBG? Sure fire way to go wrong.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
What I found most interesting about Algona’s timeline is that it would seem to bring into question just how well Inno Games is leveraging the vast data they have access to. This forum is generous in the pervasive assumption that Inno Games knows, tracks, and analyzes everything we do meticulously.

Yes and no. I think if you look a little closer you'll see that folk who pay attention to such tend to believe that

INNO has exact data on how we play and our spending habits.

Different groups in INNO choose to use that data different ways.

----------

Serious long time players know INNO makes design mistakes .

There's a commonly stated belief that few if any devs actually play the game in depth.

The 2 year QA cycle is a lot harder to see and could well be a figment of my imagination., but since we're now in the third iteration since I started playing, maybe not?

There's no doubt that a lot of crud gets noted in beta and still propped to live.

INNO manages to maintain growth of revenue and profit.

Which leads me to the conclusions that the money folks are diligent about keeping an eye on player spending habits and the design folk don't pay a lot of attention to long term trends or what is already in the game and the QA folk change over every couple years.

Take the current kerfluffle. Years in the making, but it took the SAAB RQs to be the straw that broke the system.

So sometime after that, say around mid Sep 2020 (approaching fiscal quarter end) someone is checking logs and sees things going crazy the last three months. Over the next few months a bit of a scramble to identify the problems and possible solutions, a couple months to slap together a patch, and we have March 3, 2021.

Pure speculation, but it fits with everything INNO has done since I started playing.

That doesn't bother me too much, I expect and accept that this game has inherent design flaws that will need correction. Those sorts of changes have been going on since I got here.

Nope, it's the possible effects of new ownership and new communications policies that have my attention.
 

Lando6

Member
So I read this as two interconnected items, which I believe have been stated previously. Inno is trying to tackle the issue of "quest abort exploits" AND "the impact is has on [their] servers." I feel Inno's reasoning to install an abort limit is just only to solve the impact on their servers. You can still "exploit" the aborting part, but only until you reach 2000 aborts. So really, they only limited the amount of "exploiting" that can take place (insert your definition of "exploit" here). I'm assuming (just an assumption) the only reason why they did this is because it was the simplest solution and had the most efficient impact on freeing up server processing. What concerns me is how much of an impact did this change actually make? Also, under the assumption stated above, will Inno actually make significant efforts to halt the "quest abort exploits" (most have assumed bots) without altering/limiting a main style of gameplay?

Inno says they are all about respecting the players of this game, but the way this change was portrayed and the impact this has had on gameplay, I question the integrity of Inno. Please just shoot straight with us. I still won't like it, but I would much more respect Inno if they said something along the lines of: "We have some issues regarding the abort quest "exploits" that is having an impact on our servers. Right now the best way we can free up our servers is to limit aborts. We feel this is the best current action we can take to keep from overloading our servers and impacting lags for all players. Please understand that we are not trying to marginalize any particular style of gameplay. Thank you for your understanding."

In full disclosure, I do not hit the 2000 abort limit on a daily basis, so I am not saying this to "fight my own battle", but for the integrity and transparency of the game. No one likes to be jerked around and play a game in which rules or modifications change at a moments notice. I understand that I signed up for this game in full knowledge of the terms and conditions (like anyone really reads that fine print anyways), and that Inno has the right to change the game however they see fit. I also understand they are in the middle of a teeter totter. On the one side is player contentment and the other is revenue. It's a poor analogy, but I think you get the point. I also understand that this change really only affects about 10-15% of the player community, but in my option, that segment of the player community are the ones I would much rather listen to that those who pop on to play once every couple of days. This change does not affect me that much, but I would rather raise my voice now, because the next awful (yes, I said it) change to come might just impact my game style.

Some have asked, "If you are objecting to Inno's change, then propose something different." So, I'm not an IT guy, nor do I have insight into the actual details as to why Inno made their change." As any problem solver would say, I need to see all the issues at hand before I can solve the problem. Inno's statement is vague at best, and I feel they did that on purpose as to not get backed into a corner. I don't feel I have enough "data" to make a qualified recommendation, but some of the IT ideas that have been suggested (having the aborts stored locally rather than on servers) seem to be decent ideas, but is Inno willing to invest the amount of time and energy it takes to really fix the "exploits" at hand. Sorry for the long post, keep up the good work, and Forge On!

Ok. We got it. We understand this is not the game style you have incorporated into your city (It's not mine either). However, that doesn't mean you need to bash others for figuring out different ways to play this game. You may think it's stupid or even idiotic, but I applaud those who came up with this style of gameplay. I would rather celebrate the fact that people have found so many ways to play this game, but now Inno has severely limited a particular game style. Inno can do whatever they want, it's their game, but tell me, what happens when they try to limit the game style you have incorporated because they have found another "exploit"? Stop fighting each other and fight the powers that be. United we stand, divided we fall. Let Inno hear us. If they care about the happiness of their players, eventually they will have to do something to stop the sounds of shuffling feet headed for the exit sign. Those feet have wallets.

Sorry JBG, but I don't think some of my original posts would constitute "bashing" Inno, but more so questioning the integrity of Inno for the lack of forthright communication about the abort limit (and don't' get started about "what Inno actually said", we are aware of what they did or did not say) . What, or should I say, who I have disagreed with are those who have decided to detract, derail, and distract others from constructively talking about this subject. I'm not fighting this fight in hopes to gain something (I'm NOT a heavy questor). I fight this fight in hopes of Inno being more transparent in the future and treating players like adults and telling us like it is, instead of giving us vague information about they decided to limit a particular gamestyle.
 
One day I woke up to find a gopher mound in my yard. I know a gopher mound in my yard is a problem, but it's also a pain in the rear to deal with, so I ignore it. I know eventually I'll have to deal with it, but it's a pain, I got better things to do, so I let it slide.

Two years later my yard looks like a gopher preserve and I've got the neighbor kids driving their RC four wheel monster trucks across my lawn, the perfect off road course to test their driving skills. I can no longer ignore the problem and have no choice but to go all Caddy Shack on my lawn.

Inno knew it was a problem, they watched the problem grow, when the problem got too big, they ended the problem. Now the gophers are here complaining it's not fair because they got to camp on the lawn for so long.

Nothing disingenuous about ignoring a problem until you cannot ignore it any longer.

FWIW - I didn't notify the gophers about the change in policy. I never explained the reasons why. I never entertained their complaints. I just ended the problem.

Even so, I'm rooting for the gophers.

I could get behind this if they had implemented an elegant solution. Adding a counter, a pop-up, and a few “if” statements to the RQ’s isn’t elegant and wouldn’t warrant the can getting kicked down the road for so long. They were able to find the time to update the animations for moving ages and update the graphics on the tech tree, but couldn’t be bothered to fix something that was causing an imbalance in their game?

I think your assessment might be more damning than my own. Sitting on an issue, letting it build steam until it blows, then and only then doing anything about it would not be the best business practice. Especially if it is one that relates to the balance within the game.
 
Viewpoints, buddy, viewpoint. From my viewpoint it is the most positive thing they've done for game balance in years.

Well, with the exception of @Algona, all that speculation is from players who were part of the problem Inno was fixing, so...

Or...they fixed the problem to their satisfaction and don't see a point to saying anything more, given the relatively mild player reaction overall.

I only take issue with the way in which it was handled. If they are taking suggestions for ”exploits” that need addressed, I am sure many of us can give them a start. It seems odd that they tell us about the tiniest little details they change on every screen, but choose not to include something significant like this. Would almost seem like they weren’t proud of the problem they created or the solution.
 

SCollins23

Member
One day I woke up to find a gopher mound in my yard. I know a gopher mound in my yard is a problem, but it's also a pain in the rear to deal with, so I ignore it. I know eventually I'll have to deal with it, but it's a pain, I got better things to do, so I let it slide.

Two years later my yard looks like a gopher preserve and I've got the neighbor kids driving their RC four wheel monster trucks across my lawn, the perfect off road course to test their driving skills. I can no longer ignore the problem and have no choice but to go all Caddy Shack on my lawn.

Inno knew it was a problem, they watched the problem grow, when the problem got too big, they ended the problem. Now the gophers are here complaining it's not fair because they got to camp on the lawn for so long.

Nothing disingenuous about ignoring a problem until you cannot ignore it any longer.

FWIW - I didn't notify the gophers about the change in policy. I never explained the reasons why. I never entertained their complaints. I just ended the problem.

Even so, I'm rooting for the gophers.

Being an active player of the game = Being a gopher in someone's yard

Absurdity has no limits.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
I fight this fight in hopes of Inno being more transparent in the future and treating players like adults and telling us like it is

- If this is not changed back I will quit the game because of this.
- Many players will quit the game because of this.
- Many players have quit the game because of this.
- I will stop buying diamonds because of this
- Many players will stop buying diamonds because of this.
- Many players have stopped buying diamonds because of this.
- We should all stop buying diamonds because of this
- We should all complain on the forum, till they change this back
- We should all send in Support Tickets every day till they change this.

How exactly do you want to be treated?
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
Geez, I wonder what impact all these seemingly never ending events and the new PvP battles have on their servers! Just saying!


Events make them money. I don't see their records but I think it's pretty safe to say that events bring them in lots of revenue. No doubt they are hoping that at least some players will spend money to get advance in the ranks for the PVP Arena. Competition tends to make people want things more and thus more willing to spend their time and money on it (not everyone of course but i'm pretty sure a subset of the player base would fall in this category base). How does heavy questing make them money?
 

r21r

Member
One day I woke up to find a gopher mound in my yard. I know a gopher mound in my yard is a problem, but it's also a pain in the rear to deal with, so I ignore it. I know eventually I'll have to deal with it, but it's a pain, I got better things to do, so I let it slide.

Two years later my yard looks like a gopher preserve and I've got the neighbor kids driving their RC four wheel monster trucks across my lawn, the perfect off road course to test their driving skills. I can no longer ignore the problem and have no choice but to go all Caddy Shack on my lawn.

Inno knew it was a problem, they watched the problem grow, when the problem got too big, they ended the problem. Now the gophers are here complaining it's not fair because they got to camp on the lawn for so long.

Nothing disingenuous about ignoring a problem until you cannot ignore it any longer.

FWIW - I didn't notify the gophers about the change in policy. I never explained the reasons why. I never entertained their complaints. I just ended the problem.

Even so, I'm rooting for the gophers.
pretty much like clubs or cafes work or used to work in my country.
we set an attractive problem, then once our shop is full of customers and all the tables filled, we start removing the problem.

and thats why i am posting, there are a lot "problems" in the game and im not quite sure what is gonna be fixed next.

i just hope it wont be seed vault
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Sorry JBG, but I don't think some of my original posts would constitute "bashing" Inno, but more so questioning the integrity of Inno
Interesting world where questioning integrity is not bashing. Especially when the lack of transparency is very much in the eye of the beholder. I have a feeling that if Inno came right out and said that they instituted the abort limit to keep players from endlessly looping RQs none of the people bashing them would be happy. Since you say you're not a heavy quester, would you be satisfied if they made such a statement?
So why as one of the same 3 or 4 players do you keep posting, when you're being so repetitive?
I'll make you a deal. You all stop repeating the same complaints and I'll stop replying to them.
I could get behind this if they had implemented an elegant solution.
LOL. Seriously. Would you be happy if they had programmed fireworks and a brass band to appear when you reach the limit? Or maybe a virtual dinner party would be more "elegant".
I only take issue with the way in which it was handled.
They identified a problem, they fixed the problem, and they stated their justification for the fix. So really all you're taking issue with is that they weren't specific enough for you in their explanation. So I'll ask you the same question as Lando6, would you be satisfied if Inno came right out and said that they instituted the abort limit to keep players from endlessly looping RQs?
If they are taking suggestions for ”exploits” that need addressed, I am sure many of us can give them a start.
Game rules say that if you think that there is an exploit in the game, you're supposed to contact support and tell them. So suggest away, no one is stopping you.
Would almost seem like they weren’t proud of the problem they created or the solution.
Talk about reading your own bias into events. Sheesh.
The guy proudly admits having a lot of fun on this thread. From what I understand, he also has several cities and has a passive playing style (log in, collect, invest, log off). So I guess it's a lifestyle?
This game, and by extension this Forum, is a leisure time activity. I proudly admit to engaging in this leisure time activity in order to have fun. Why do you engage in leisure time activities? I guess I'm having a hard time being insulted by this. And it's my "lifestyle" that dictates my fairly passive playing style here. You see, I have other pursuits than just being here. You should try it sometime, there's a whole wide world out there.
 

SCollins23

Member
If that's your takeaway, then yes. Absurdity has no limits

You're likening active players of the game that are actually playing the game to a pest. We're not bothering Inno. We're playing the game Inno has created. According to your "great" metaphor, Inno should delete all player accounts. Then they'll have the whole yard to themselves. But of course, that makes no sense. Neither does your short story.
 
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