Castle System Feedback

[Johnny B. Goode]

My feedback on the subject of Castle bonuses affecting Tavern boost costs and therefore affecting selection of said boosts for quest fulfillment is that it is a non-issue except possibly for very new players. Once a Tavern is fully upgraded, the silver just piles up and the choice of which boost to use to fulfill a "spend Tavern Silver" quest depends more on the duration of the boost than the amount...as long as it's at least enough to fulfill the quest requirements, of course.
For example, if I were to get a "spend 1000 Tavern Silver quest", I would choose the shortest boost that cost at least 1000 Silver. It doesn't matter how much over 1000 that boost costs, because in all but my newest cities I have well over 1million Tavern Silver just gathering dust. I rarely, if ever, use a Tavern boost except to fulfill a quest. They're just not that helpful.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

CASTLE LEVEL

POINTS needed

N15 DC7 (days)

N8 DC7 (days)

N8 DC8 (days)

N8 DC9 (days)

N5 DC7 (days)

N5 DC8 (days)

N5 DC9 (days)

1​

500​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

2​

3000​

4​

4​

4​

4​

4​

5​

5​

3​

7500​

9​

10​

10​

11​

11​

11​

12​

4​

17500​

22​

24​

24​

25​

25​

26​

27​

5​

30000​

38​

40​

42​

43​

44​

45​

46​

6​

50000​

63​

67​

70​

72​

73​

75​

77​

7​

75000​

94​

101​

104​

107​

109​

113​

116​

8​

107600​

135​

145​

150​

154​

156​

162​

167​

9​

151100​

189​

203​

210​

216​

219​

227​

234​

10​

209900​

263​

282​

292​

300​

305​

316​

325​

For the above table, the first 10 levels are shown and the values are in days.
Assumptions: Castle points chests, 15 attacks -- done daily AND GE 64 completed (I dont care how fast you do it), no AD and purchase CPs
N15 -15 negos done, N8 - 8 negos done, N5 - 5 negos done PER DAY
DC7 - Daily Challenge done in 7 days, DC8 - Daily Challenge done in 8 days, DC9 - Daily Challenge done in 9 days
CP per Day actual values
N15 = 240, N8 = 184, N5 = 130, DC7 = 200, DC8= 175, DC9 = 156

So what does the table tell us. To get L10, it can take 263 days doing 15 negos per day and the daily challenge every day, to a softer approach, 325 days for 5 negos per day and doing the 7 daily challenges in 9 days.

Levels 11 to 15 I will present separately bcs the values are better shown in years

Thanks for taking the time to prepare this. I know that it's splitting hairs but is an "N15" scenario possible each day? GBG is off season 3 out of every 14 days. The off season for GE overlaps (every other Monday) Unless there is way to negotiate that I don't know about besides GE and GBG "N15" is not possible on the Mondays that both GE and GBG are off. I looked at the CMap to see if negotiating there paid castle points but did not see any information one way or another (even if it did pay points getting in 15 negos on the cMap would be tough on an ongoing basis).

 

[Just An Observer]

Thanks for taking the time to prepare this. I know that it's splitting hairs but is an "N15" scenario possible each day? GBG is off season 3 out of every 14 days. The off season for GE overlaps (every other Monday) Unless there is way to negotiate that I don't know about besides GE and GBG "N15" is not possible on the Mondays that both GE and GBG are off. I looked at the CMap to see if negotiating there paid castle points but did not see any information one way or another (even if it did pay points getting in 15 negos on the cMap would be tough on an ongoing basis).

After the reset which sets up the final GBG session, do 15 Negotiations to take care of Monday.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

After the reset which sets up the final GBG session, do 15 Negotiations to take care of Monday.

Yep, That would work. Thanks.

 

[CDmark]

Thanks for taking the time to prepare this. I know that it's splitting hairs but is an "N15" scenario possible each day? GBG is off season 3 out of every 14 days. The off season for GE overlaps (every other Monday) Unless there is way to negotiate that I don't know about besides GE and GBG "N15" is not possible on the Mondays that both GE and GBG are off. I looked at the CMap to see if negotiating there paid castle points but did not see any information one way or another (even if it did pay points getting in 15 negos on the cMap would be tough on an ongoing basis).

During GBG, no problem getting 15 negos/day. After GBG season, here is how it can be done
So, after reset (say midnight, EST) you do 15 negos before GBG ends, Mon negos done.
Then Mon midnight, Tue morning GBG starts, Tue negos done (L1 GE done, 1500 tavern silver?)
Then Tue midnight, GE L2, Wed negos done (L2 GE done, 1500 tavern silver - I would say yes)
The Wed midnight, GBG starts Thur AM
(note: I know it will not be 1500 tavern silver due to reduction)

The game has many variables, here is a good example, actually happened to me.
GE started, I got a DC, Solve 8 encounters in GE fighting. Easy to do, 15 negos and 8 fights

The answer is yes, it can be done. I did the spreadsheet, initially for me, to determine where I could slack off (lol), do I need to change game playing style?, and what is the effect on the Castle level timing. So, I needed to quantify it.

Negos can take 1 min each, not the L1 GE, but in GBG, you get 6 resource negos and those are 50% successful (this is a guess, think the number is actually less, to demonstrate the TIME). CP's worth it? To do GBG negos, you need either low to no attrition, or you get penalized. Of course, you can wait until before reset and do attrition burn with negos only.

I determined, if I get the 5 negos a day (the points, doesnt mean you HAVE TO DO 5 per day, just the points) and finish Daily Challenge in 9 days, I lose about 62 days on L10. so for me, sounds good.

As far as L15, well 3.56 (extremely active) versus 4.41 (more casual) years, ok for me too bcs you would actually be at L14 in the casual mode in 3.21 years.
L14 vs L15 = 5 FP, 10 current goods, 5 previous goods per day and 5% A/D for attacking ARMY (some other differences) so not a big deal, to me.

 

[Xenosaur]

There is a disconnect between the castle system and the quest systems. When you get a discount on tavern buffs, it screws up spending a set required number of tavern silver. For example, a common requirement is to spend 1000 tavern silver. That would be a 12 hour supply buff or a 30 min attack buff plus a 4 hour coin buff. But as soon as you get a castle level, those costs go down, making it much harder to achieve the 1000 spend.

Please either adjust the requirement in the quest in line with the current castle level, or drop the discount.

Totally agree that the "discounts" we earn from Castle work against us for Daily Challenges that need tavern purchases. It's hilarious that something "good" acts poorly in the overall scheme of things. Inno's gonna say "we did that on purpose". They probably won't say anything (in reality). I didn't play beta for this, but it might have been called out there, and ignored by Product Management or ruled "unimportant".

I guess we're going to have to over-compensate (spend MORE) in the tavern for those types daily challenges if they don't neatly and cleanly add to the required amount. In a perfect world, that "fit and finish" item would be strategicaly addressed before it ever hit release status. But it's a darn good catch by experienced players.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

In a perfect world, that "fit and finish" item would be strategicaly addressed before it ever hit release status. But it's a darn good catch by experienced players.

Seriously? It was immediately obvious, not a "darn good catch". And it's inconsequential in practical terms. It's probably more than offset in overall game balance terms by the coin/supply/attack/defense boosts. You gotta take the "bad" with the good sometimes. And in this case, it ain't even that bad. Very slightly inconvenient at worst. Just changes which boost you'll have to choose. It's not like you'll have to now use a boost that costs 8000 instead of 1000. Just use the next highest cost boost. Easy peasy. And you'll probably still have millions left in your Tavern Silver bank.

 

[Xenosaur]

Seriously? It was immediately obvious, not a "darn good catch". And it's inconsequential in practical terms. It's probably more than offset in overall game balance terms by the coin/supply/attack/defense boosts. You gotta take the "bad" with the good sometimes. And in this case, it ain't even that bad. Very slightly inconvenient at worst. Just changes which boost you'll have to choose. It's not like you'll have to now use a boost that costs 8000 instead of 1000. Just use the next highest cost boost. Easy peasy. And you'll probably still have millions left in your Tavern Silver bank.

John, in some respects you're right - in the big scheme of things, it's small. However, I just don't write software like that. It's a glaring design omission that wasn't thought through in design, and players caught. Now - it "feels" like it was too much trouble to fix once the Castle cement "hardened".

People will adapt, yes of course! That's what we do.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Just to mentoin the Boost I would take only because a quest asked for 3 boosts (etc) is the 4hr coin. since it can be done three times with no diamonds in the one day. it is dirt cheap and a complete throw away. The quests that demand a certain quantity of silver spent I always take the 8500 24 hr attack boost. since it is the only one worth a da*#. So for me the change in cost is just a nice deal. with no whine attached.
As mentioned the Silver really piles up.
Normally I do no need the 30% Attack, but it certainly does no harm.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It's a glaring design omission that wasn't thought through in design, and players caught

This is an assumption on your part. They may well have known that it would have this effect and decided that it was okay with them. Unless they share their thought process, we'll never know. You do realize that the other boosts make other quests slightly easier, don't you? Coin, supply and battle quests are made slightly easier with the Castle boosts helping out. And in my mind, that more than balances this out. There are way more coin, supply and battle quests than there are "spend Tavern silver" quests.

Now - it "feels" like it was too much trouble to fix once the Castle cement "hardened".

Again, an assumption. I, on the other hand, "feel" like it was either an intended effect, or an effect that the developers saw and were okay with.

 

[67Sage101]

So far I like the castle system and some of the benefits.

1. I like getting a few extra FP
2. I like that it's tied to player activity
3. I'd rather see equal reward for fighting vs. negotiation.

 

[*Hambone*]

It would be great if the castle points rewarded for attacks are shown. It is like this for negotiations, why not for attacks?

 

[Tharkunn]

The % off tavern boost actually makes the tavern more expensive. Can I please opt out of it.
The problem quests are based off the old cost of tavern boost. Quest is spend 250 tavern silver but now what cost 250 now costs 245 so instead of spending 250 silver I need spend 490 silver.
The spend 1000 tavern silver is worse. Used to be could do 10% attack boost for 750 then supplies boost for 250. Now the attack boost is 713 and the supply boost is 238 which means I need a 3rd boost cheapest one is coin boost for 190 meaning the fantastic boon of a 5% reduction of tavern boost costs me an extra 141 tavern silver plus the hassle and additional time to wait for each boost to expire and activate the next or spend 50 diamonds.

So please let me opt out of this false benefit of reduced tavern cost. It actually costs me far more. 95% of the time I use a tavern boost is for a quest and it always costs way more to complete then it did previously.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

I guess i just have different Quests. ?? I have never had a problem with Quests and the Castle discount.

 

[Agent327]

I guess i just have different Quests. ?? I have never had a problem with Quests and the Castle discount.

Quest tells you to spend 1000 silver. As a result of the discount the tavern boost that required 1000 silver now requires less. Quest can no longer be fullfilled with just one boost, unless you pay way more silver. Not really a discount.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

The % off tavern boost actually makes the tavern more expensive. Can I please opt out of it.
The problem quests are based off the old cost of tavern boost. Quest is spend 250 tavern silver but now what cost 250 now costs 245 so instead of spending 250 silver I need spend 490 silver.
The spend 1000 tavern silver is worse. Used to be could do 10% attack boost for 750 then supplies boost for 250. Now the attack boost is 713 and the supply boost is 238 which means I need a 3rd boost cheapest one is coin boost for 190 meaning the fantastic boon of a 5% reduction of tavern boost costs me an extra 141 tavern silver plus the hassle and additional time to wait for each boost to expire and activate the next or spend 50 diamonds.

So please let me opt out of this false benefit of reduced tavern cost. It actually costs me far more. 95% of the time I use a tavern boost is for a quest and it always costs way more to complete then it did previously.

You can opt out.

When you select the Daily Challenge, have a tavern boost running. Buy the cheapest one, doesn't matter. You will not get any buy boost or spend tavern silver tasks.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Quest tells you to spend 1000 silver. As a result of the discount the tavern boost that required 1000 silver now requires less. Quest can no longer be fullfilled with just one boost, unless you pay way more silver. Not really a discount.

We already know that. he issue is do you actually buy some useless bit becasue it is exactly 1000? Or buy something you can use? LOL

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

You can opt out.

When you select the Daily Challenge, have a tavern boost running. Buy the cheapest one, doesn't matter. You will not get any buy boost or spend tavern silver tasks.

Wow I did not know that. Thank you. Always good to know stuff in Foe.
It does not matter for me since I buy the 24 hr 30% Attack boost for any buy in tavern quest. Except the buy two or buy three then I buy the throw away 4hr Coin because no cost in Diamonds.

 

[Flavius Belisarius]

Tavern costs when satisfying Quests do not march requirement because of Castle benefits.

 

[Agent327]

We already know that. he issue is do you actually buy some useless bit becasue it is exactly 1000? Or buy something you can use? LOL

With an abundance of silver, do you really think I care? I just buy items that don't last long.