DeletedUser13838
IA being iron or industrial age? I'd rather have the ToR in iron age for space considerations.
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Goods: A case AGAINST Dresden and Royal Albert Hall
- Thread starter Trobb de Grobb
- Start date
DeletedUser27849
You never need to build the colosseum so I don't understand your point. And you talk about saving a tiny number of coins by not buying units in barracks and then say you would delete housing?
I already posted my analysis for 2 GBs. Why don't you actually show me your analysis that makes you think Im wrong?
Okay I am going to try to give you the best answer I can to both of your response in one response, someone can check my math as I did a fast calculation.
Yes delete the houses as I generate coins through other buildings that were laid down when I opened up the space, such as Tribal squares which gives coins and goods along with population.
Your arguments is that a level 15 Haigia gives more forge points than SOK's in the same space, so here goes. The Hagia space is 7x6 (42 squares). The SOK's is 2x2 which means ideally I can put 10 SOK;s in the same amount of space, plus get coins from each of the SOK's, which is more than I would get from Houses.
Now laying down the Traz means I don't need to build all the barracks and I can choose what I need to have, plus I get more happiness than the Hagia. So has a fighter for GE and GVG purposes if I didn't have the Traz would mean that I would need at minimum 4 barracks. Which comes out needing (LMA numbers) 3124 in population. That is between 15 and 16 houses that is needed for population. So the 15 to 16 houses I don't need I can have the 10 SOK's.
Now for the 6185 forge points you spent leveling the Hagia I could spend on the either the Traz or CDM which would give me for the Traz a Level 12 getting 11 units a day with enough happiness to make the world a better place. Or a Level 13 CDM that would provide 33% attack boost and give 8 Forge points a day.
So by choosing the Traz over the Hagia I am producing twice the amount of forge points, saved on population needs, increased my coin production and able to lay down other important items like tribal squares, oasis, etc. that can also help me delete other buildings like goods and production buildings.
If I am incorrect in my numbers someone let me know.
DeletedUser13838
It is not about choosing 1 GB over another. You are able to have both. The question is if it's worth building a new GB instead of putting fps into an existing one. If you already have a level 10 traz then 6.2k fps gives you a level 16 traz (but I'll be nice and say 17). Level 10 to 17 traz gives you 3.4k happiness and 7 units/day vs the 7.8k happiness and 9 fps you get. Sure it's an extra 42 spaces but I guess you can just delete some more houses (if you're concerned about space but not coins there are GBs that give you population). If you had the 7 or 8 soks (not 10 - you ignored roads) to fit in that space I'd suggest that there are other buildings you're better off replacing them with.
DeletedUser27849
Correct each GB has its value some have better value than others. So IMO if I didn't have any GB's and needed BP's I wouldn't waste my time chase the Hagia, I would be going after something that is better.
I wasn't discounted roads as with just using the number of space I save from the Hagia I can rearrange my city to fit the 10 SOK's.
Yes I also have the Inno Tower also for my population. Here is the city I am talking about.
DeletedUser13838
Your city is a lot more advanced than mine was in LMA. But I think after LMA the game changes a lot with respect to how you value different resources against each other. As you get more and more space to build things are you really going to use it to pump out even more supplies?
DeletedUser27849
While I sit in each ERA I am stockpiling coins and supplies, since I use very little of it for anything except to research tech and to retrain my units after I lay down DA's. The real change in the game is when you get to Modern ERA when it comes to the goods department. So playing it smart once you get into CA and above is to start stockpiling those goods to a sizable level. I will probably not leave the LMA ERA until I have the CDM, Zues, COA and TRAZ to level 10 and I have chased a few buildings for medals for future expansions. I have the Orangery, FOD, Cape and Deal still sitting in Inventory and will have the Dynamic soon. So some of those will be the next to lay down and I can spend the time to level them up.
In my other city I am pushing hard up through the ages to get into PE. It is a newer world so doing it to help my guild members. It looks a lot like this one except it doesn't have the Inno or Chateau yet. So I have to rethink how I do thing for the short time until I get up there.
DeletedUser27849
Also to add to that, IMO it is the biggest mistake players make is just going up in ERA's. Inno themselves have stated they think it is better for the player to push forward as one of their reason they got rid of the forge packs going into inventory. They say it is better for the game, I am assuming they don't play the game. In my other city I am in Industrial age and the majority of my hood is players who have pushed up to fast. They are still sitting with Iron Age buildings no GB's and I am getting love letters from them for stealing their goods. I took over a guild in that world and slowed everyone down and got them to focus on a few things. They play their own game, however taught them what to look for and get what they needed to improve their city. Worked out deals with other players and the majority of my guild mates has a Traz's, all of them have an OBS and now they are picking up and landing down GB's weekly. Some of them still have the Hagia and that is their choice, I have no issue with that. The key is taking the time to teach other players new to the game about different strategy and options in the game and what they need look for.
DeletedUser30312
My LMA city disagrees with you. That Traz is generating a nice pile of rogues to make combat easier for me. And I've got more unattached units than I can easily use. And it's only at level 4. I got more than enough happiness with that, a Hagia, and a FoD, I've got a few decorations around just to give people something to M/P. Waste of space? Yeah, it's hard to fit that Traz in early because it's so big, but it gives room by:
- eliminating the need for culture buildings
- reducing the need for military buildings with all those unattached troops
- reducing the need for housing (one of the biggest space eaters) since military buildings eat up a lot of population
ITown
Well-Known Member
Relics. Traz doesn't give FPs. (It's also half the size)
Anyway, I probably worded my statement earlier a little too harshly. A more accurate characterization would be "unnecessary" before PE. A "waste of space" would imply that it has either no effect or a harmful effect on your city's productive capacities. Examples: Colosseum, watchfires, etc.
I've never bothered to build Traz early because it requires either (1) spending a lot of diamonds or (2) advancing very slowly in order to obtain goods to construct Traz. I imagine it's possible to buy traz goods cheaply in some advanced worlds, but honestly, I don't play in early-age cities except in very young worlds (where PE goods are quite expensive or impossible to buy with FP).
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ITown
Well-Known Member
Actually, I wasn't assuming that. I was assuming that I win them once a month. I find it a very rare occurrence to lose rogues in GE, until the later ages, when units have boosts that are similar to/higher than mine.
ITown
Well-Known Member
It's a mistake to rush through tech if you are playing in an extremely advanced world. However, there are major benefits to advancing rapidly:
1. You can fight in later ages gvg. This helps your guild.
2. You can produce goods that others want. These can be sold to players like you who are in no rush to reach the end of tech.
3. If you care about rank, your score will rise more quickly.
4. You have more land. You'd be able to build every GB you'd like if you were at the end of tech.
ITown
Well-Known Member
Your math is fine here (for the most part - you did ignore contribution rewards for levelup cost, as well as roads (for SoK size)), but you should consider another issue: what if, instead of 700 FP per level, CDM now costs 4000 FP per level, because it's level 80? Do you still want to level CDM rather than getting 15 Hagia levels?
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DeletedUser29295
I agree about the Colosseum, but watchfires are never a waste of space.
I have yet to have anyone in my Er (LMA, even with Colonial 1/7 attack) crack my city here. And I kill everyone in m hood, from top to bottom every day.
DeletedUser27184
Strong defense is possible. And I always find a few around who uses it.
But is it needed? I don't think so. If you pick your stuff at time, you will lose very little.
And even if you lose a FP/goods here and there, its a small amount
While if you take the space you wasted, which comes to 22*2 + 8*1 + 9 (if I remember the monsatry size) - its 61 spaces!
Now, if you put SoK there, you will earn every day about 12 FP (SoK + road) and you lose at most 1-5 (from palace). Worth.
If you build GB there, lets say Inno, you can earn 5 FP and some pop.
Any way *I* look at it, you better lose a bit from time to time from plundering, but use the space to greater value. Since the plunderers can't steal from you MORE then you can produce at the same space, its always worth to build stuff which is NOT defense (as long as at most time you pick your buildings produce on time).
Maybe if you are OF, and the whole neighborhood is super bored and all plunder every one, with tens of attack per day, then maybe the defense is worth it.
Algona
Well-Known Member
Ongoing debate on this in The Watchfire Controversy thread. Seein' as how that thread has gone for hundreds of posts, and three months. let;s not repeat it here?
Please?
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/the-watchfire-controversy.17147/
DeletedUser28897
Ok
https://imgur.com/gallery/7NEp5
What GBs am I lacking? I have no defense, no supplies, no goods gbs other than st marks. I doubt I can improve my city by adding any current gb at this point
DeletedUser26120
As someone who fights a lot in the game, your city is glaring in that it lacks a Traz. But you don't seem to need it.
Trobb de Grobb
New Member
As the OPer, thank you all for the discussion! To answer a couple of questions asked: I am in HMA and only play on one server. In hindsight, a better title should have been "Earlier Goods GB are more efficient". I fully realize I don't have the perspective of a player who has played into the higher ages.
DeletedUser13838
I see a traz.