A few pointing out that controls or logs are not needed and only broken leaders are crying for controls. that may be but lets consider the precedence. GvG, designated rights/controls and log. Leaders can control near every aspect of who is able to do what and when.
Do you think Inno was/is unaware of this precedence when they designed GBG? Of course they were/are. They were/are also aware of all the negative issues surrounding GvG. Issues so severe and so significant, they were unable to introduce new maps as they introduced new ages and a fundamental architecture flaw, recalc, that made it impossible to port/scale to mobile, an environment so restrictive that only 5% of the users ever participated.
Sure, let's rush to recreate that system. What you need to consider is that Inno has considered the precedence and has rejected that level of control and that level of log detail. When first introduced on Beta, GBG didn't even have an activity log showing individual member participation. Inno has already capitulated on this issue to give us what we have now.
GE, designated rights to unlock, can see who does what in GE and can see who contributes to treasury.
GE gives rights to unlock so we can control who can spend treasury goods. Similarly, Constructor rights in GBG allow us to control who is able to spend treasury goods. In GvG rights controls who can establish a siege to control who is able to spend treasury goods. Seems you've lost sight of the fact that all the controls in GE and GvG are to control the use of treasury goods.
As far as GE activity logs, they simply tell you number of encounters and total point contribution. As it is, total point contribution isn't needed, there's not much you can do to affect them. In GBG, the activity log provides more detailed information than the GE log, breaking down fights vs. negotiations. These are needed to determine the number of advancements, similar to tracking the number of encounters in GE.
Leaders can establish minimums for completion and treasury contributions and enforce them. pvp, complete history of who attacked/aided/plundered. Near every aspect of guild and player function has systems to monitor activity/performance because it is needed to establish and enforce a standard both as a guild and individuals.
I'm sorry, where is it that guild members can see their guild members' activity in PvP, or their attacking, aiding, or plundering? You can't. All you can see and know is their activity aiding you. You have no idea if they're aiding anyone else in the guild and no control over their PvP, aiding, or plundering.
Your premise here is incorrect, you can't control near every aspect of guild and player function. You can control who can spend treasury goods, nothing else. You can see a members' overall activity in GE, nothing else. GBG is exactly the same.
...and then you have battlegrounds, no controls making a posted strat/guidance thread to coordinate necessary but with absolutely no way to either enforce or identify strays. All other guild functions so far have a way to create and enforce a standard...sorta what makes a guild isn't it? So if asked, do i need the information to identify who needs further guidance or, if unable to follow guidance to work within a guild, boot them? YES!
You can create and enforce standards in GBG exactly like those in GE, with the same level of built in controls, none. You can enforce them with the same level of detail as the GE logs. So establish your standards. How many fights, negotiations, or advancements. You can see who's meeting them and who's not.
What you're actually asking for in GBG is an unprecedented level of control and detail. A level of control beyond who can spend treasury goods and logs more detailed than overall activity and guild contribution.
What if those guilds with high GE minimums were no longer able to see individual progress and only got to see guild score...or GE participation upon completion? What if you couldn't see what friends aided you or didn't? Guilds differ based on their standards and enforcement of those standards. Leaders can establish a standard and teach others but also need to be able to enforce that standard. An unenforced standard simply creates a new standard and that is why many feel battlegrounds has nothing enforceable but is instead a bunch of like minded cheerleaders hoping everyone reads the memo.
What if? Who cares? Not relevant to the discussion. We have those controls and logs, no one is asking for their removal.
We also have the same level of controls and logs in GBG. We can control who can spend treasury goods and we can see a log of member's overall activity to determine advancement contribution. As my mother would say, "Same thing, no difference."
Another mentioned action logs would promote witch hunts. I don't see any problem with "witch hunts" Guilds establish their own systems and standards and need a way to monitor and enforce those standards.
Witch hunt away. Establish your standards and enforce them. What you can't do is control who does what, where, and when on the map and never know for sure who the offending parties are.
If a player joins a guild unable or unwilling to meet those standards then they absolutely should be corrected or removed from the guild to avoid disrupting the players that have assembled that DO share appreciation. Guilds are not a one size fits all. No player on any world should have any problem finding the right guild for their interests and play style. Get a boot from one? ok, that one of MANY wasn't the right one..keep looking. If your ideas are so unusual or profound that you don't fit in any guild you try...then start your own and gather those wanting to do it your way ....or you change your way to suit a guild you are interested in.
This is where your failure of leadership lies. This has nothing to do with members not wanting to meet standards, blah, blah, blah. This is about you wanting to micromanage your member's participation in GBG. Something most players tend to rebel against. This rebellion shows up in your rogue players.
in short, i don't think this is a leadership issue. information or controls to establish and enforce standards are needed if guilds want to have a standard.
In short, I do think it's a leadership issue. Regardless, it's something you'll need to solve in the absence of such controls and logs.
Why? Because the chance of you getting these is somewhere between slim and none. Inno has already rejected this by not providing them in the first place. These were asked for on Beta and rejected on Beta before ever going live.
You're also in the extreme minority with your position. How do I know this? GvG. It's dismal 5% participation rate and it's unavailability on mobile.
What's that mean? It means most players, having never played GvG, have no idea what can and cannot be controlled in GvG. So, only GvG guilds and GvG players are asking. You want them in GBG, because you think you have them in GvG. At best, 15% of active players have had any experience with GvG. As such, players and guilds aren't asking for something they never had or even know exist.
Even in GVG guilds, better logs and controls aren't really being discussed. I'm in two, one, a 30 member guild in Gold league, the other, a 52 member guild in platinum league on the diamond map. Both guilds quite successful without them. Somehow, we've been able to come together without them and not stress about rogue activity. Could be why both are successful.
Regardless of what you think, or what I think, the only thing that matters is Inno and how they think. You're asking them to spend development time and money to add something they've already rejected, and you're in the extreme minority of guilds and players asking for them. Already, the deck is stacked against you.
Then there's the stark reality that Inno doesn't care your guild's success in GBG, only your members' participation in GBG. More importantly, the diamonds they're spending in GBG. Which right now, is a lot. a whole lot. Inno is raking it in with GBG without these tools and that's all that matters. Players spending diamonds.
Which is why you're not getting these controls. Logs, maybe, but nothing that will ever limit a players ability to advance on the map, anywhere, any time. Allowing you to lock out guild members from hitting the map means you limiting both those members' need and ability to spend diamonds to buy and heal units, buy goods and extra turns, and insta-build province buildings.
No matter how much it's requested, no matter how frustrated guild leaders become, no matter how successful or unsuccessful your guild is in GBG without these tools, you're never getting the ability to throttle diamond usage. No way, no how. Never gonna happen. Get used to it.
In fact, this last point is something the moderators should take note of. Any request to limit a player's ability to advance on the GBG map limits their ability to spend diamonds, therefore making the whole idea DNSL.
