GvG Lag - "tile 38,75"

[BruteForceAttack]

You clearly don't understand difference between being a mod and a player posting comments. I urge you to speak to your seniors and figure out.

 

[Algona]

Make sure in your future poss you clarify if that post is as a mod or as a player.

You clearly don't understand difference between being a mod and a player posting comments.

Nonsense. You're a long term frequent poster. You know exactly how Stephen Longshanks thinks, you nailed it. He does have strong held opinions on all sorts of topics. And after becoming a mod he still freely gives those opinions.

Despite SL being wrong so frequently muzzling his experience and opinions would not be for the good of the community.

He has not come close to the line of using his mod position to ram his opinions down poster's throats. He depends instead on using the same tactics he used before becoming a mod.

If he did abuse his position he'd get his ass booted from modding. Worse, he'd lose all the credibility he;s managed to garner in his time posting, he'd be a laughing stock.

SL is following in the footsteps of jaelis, who also felt free to express his strong held opinions about the game without explicitly saying he was posting his opinions as a player, not a mod.

Tear SL a new one when he's wrong on his opinions about the game. He's not gonna boot you edit you close you down.

Un;less you break the forum rules. Which being the good poster you are, you don't do.

----------

As an aside, that's twice in this thread you've tried to tell players they shouldn't be posting. That's a practice you might want to nip in the bud, it will never get you anywhere you want to go.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

Which is ironic because that is probably the cause of the worsening lag and other issues.

Another irony. All you GvGers who constantly proclaim that this is a fighting game don't actually fight. I do more actual fighting in one week of GE than you do in a year of GvG auto battles.

Seriously, the reason these rants about GvG lag are always so badly received by other players is the arrogance displayed in them. GvG is not some mystic ritual that only those involved know about. And it isn't the main feature of the game that it once was. And Inno's revenue stream doesn't depend on it like it might have at one time in the past. Whether Inno ever does anything to fix GvG is irrelevant to most players, they're busy doing GE and DCs and Settlements and never ending events. The only real effect most of us would notice if GvG were to disappear is that the guild rankings would change...but then those rankings only really matter to GvGers anyway, so...

What is GE? fighting the same units over and over again?

 

[DeletedUser33179]

What is GE? fighting the same units over and over again?

what the heck is GvG? Hitting auto battle over and over again?

 

[BruteForceAttack]

what the heck is GvG? Hitting auto battle over and over again?

There is a lot more to GVG than auto battle, First of all GVG involves strategy,planning and coordination, then you need to work with other guilds. It's not like on your break or when you are taking a dump fight some 64 battles.

*Edit: BTW our guild GE record is 126-2-0 with over 50+ members

 

[-Athena-]

(FYI: Except when they introduce a new troop. GE is basically the same 64 encounters each week that I auto battle through 98% of. It's a pretty mindless task for me.)

GvG is more than clicking an auto button. I posted this earlier but will do so again...
We don't just willy nilly hit whatever tiles of our rivals. There is strategy involved. We spend 15 to 30 min precalc prepping. We have multiple maps to cover at calc. There are good moves, bad moves. There is timing, quick reflexes, quick thinking, predicting what the other guild's moves will be, deciding what troops work best for defense and offense based on what they are using.

** You are fighting in a fluid environment where a single variable (not counting lag) makes you have to rethink quickly. You are fighting actual living, THINKING groups of people.

Again I really would invite anyone who ever wants to see us in action at calc in E world to come on down.

 

[DeletedUser]

There is a lot more to GVG than auto battle, First of all GVG involves strategy,planning and coordination, then you need to work with other guilds. It's not like on your break or when you are taking a dump fight some 64 battles.

GvG is more than clicking an auto button. I posted this earlier but will do so again...
We don't just willy nilly hit whatever tiles of our rivals. There is strategy involved. We spend 15 to 30 min precalc prepping. We have multiple maps to cover at calc. There are good moves, bad moves. There is timing, quick reflexes, quick thinking, predicting what the other guild's moves will be. You are fighitng in a fluid environment where a single variable (not counting lag) makes you have to rethink quickly. You are fighting actual living, THINKING groups of people.

I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't need to be told that the leaders of GvG guilds do much more in planning and such (mostly before actually doing GvG), but the actual GvG fighting itself is actually less demanding than many GE battles. For one thing, you never face two-wave armies. For another, you never face over a 75% boost. Usually much less, and sometimes zero boost. And you don't know which of the DAs you're going to face in each battle, but with your overwhelming boost advantage that is irrelevant. So for most of the GvG participants (unless you include the whole guild in your planning sessions) there is little more than clicking auto over and over.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't need to be told that the leaders of GvG guilds do much more in planning and such (mostly before actually doing GvG), but the actual GvG fighting itself is actually less demanding than many GE battles. For one thing, you never face two-wave armies. For another, you never face over a 75% boost. Usually much less, and sometimes zero boost. And you don't know which of the DAs you're going to face in each battle, but with your overwhelming boost advantage that is irrelevant. So for most of the GvG participants (unless you include the whole guild in your planning sessions) there is little more than clicking auto over and over.

No one was telling you anything SL, reply was for Carla's post, why do you take it so personally?

What is CE GE? hold back AAV and click auto??

 

[-Athena-]

. So for most of the GvG participants (unless you include the whole guild in your planning sessions) there is little more than clicking auto over and over.

Maybe my guild is unique but we encourage our non-leader fighters to think, offer their opinions on strategy. And yeah when they want to try their hand at precalc planning we say go for it. Our guild chat is sometimes a huge think tank and that's how we like it.

 

[qaccy]

The point Stephen's making is that there is no strategy involved in FIGHTING for GvG, and for most players that's all it is. Unless you're one of the few people per GvG guild that 'coordinates' the battles, you're just clicking on whatever tile has swords above it until those swords are gone. I don't find that very mentally engaging. Whether it's 'fighting' another guild or blowing up Champions, the routine is the same. And the fact is, that's how it is for most GvGers. Doesn't matter if you or your guild are supposedly an exception because there's still nearly every other GvG guild out there that is not operated like yours.

 

[-Athena-]

I get that GvG is not everyone's cup of tea but there are still a lot of us (many loyal long time spending and non-spending players) who enjoy this part of the game.

And we will never see how fighting a predictable AI environment will ever be more fun or more interesting or more engaging than fighting in a fluid environment with actual living, THINKING groups of people.

And Inno needs to hear that. And I can't believe they never read the forum. Businesses should have their finger on the pulse of all their consumer groups by reading feedback in social media outlets like Facebook, Twitter, Forums such as this one. The business I work for has a person who scours all that.

 

[DeletedUser25166]

I set a siege last night, tile still had big arrow, left map came back, still no swords. Went into tile and fought anyway.
Stupid events/settlement

 

[DeletedUser25166]

Sounds like a personal problem. Guild I'm in is incredibly active in GvG in several ages daily and, on my end, the worst I experience is timing issues due to the sector being lost/taken or the siege being broken. In fact, even though we've since had the addition of being able to auto battle (which hardly counts as 'fighting', by the way) from army management, I've noticed that GvG performance has actually increased since before it was added.

Also, what the heck is this thread? Seems like someone dragged some friends over from one of their guilds/servers who are now trying to create some sort of echo chamber in what I thought was the bug report forum. What's the bug here, exactly?

Go back to Beta INNO then.

 

[Volodya]

I'm going to relate a little anecdote that will seem wildly off-topic at first, but bear with me a bit. I have the misfortune of being stuck with Comcast as my ISP. A few years ago, Comcast without warning changed their email protocol and in the process deleted many years of old messages, some of them rather important. (Yeah, I know, backupbackupbackup.) I was unhappy about this. A series of customer service reps/technicians, escalating from supervisor to meta-supervisor up the bureaucracy, repeated the same sad litany: We're very sorry, it isn't our fault, your messages are gone vanished kaput forever.

I can be reasonably stubborn and resourceful when sufficiently provoked though and I didn't accept being stonewalled. I was certain that if, for instance, law enforcement needed access to some of these supposedly deleted messages, a way would be found to retrieve them. Finally I posted in a Comcast support group (on Reddit of all things) and a user there, way up in the Comcast/Xfinity hierarchy, assured me he would correct the problem. Sure enough, the next day all my old messages were back (including years of properly-deleted messages and spam, but beggars can't be choosers!)

The point of all this being: sometimes squeaky wheels really do roll smoothly again, if they squeak with sufficient energy and persistence.

 

[DeletedUser33179]

I don't have a personal/emotional stake in GvG. So, objectively speaking, this is what I see...

Mobile players currently account for ~70% of all FoE players & the majority of ongoing player base growth. Instead of bringing GvG to that platform years ago, Inno ignored it completely. It spent a vast amount of time/effort to create an entirely new intra/inter-guild feature shared across all platforms - Guild Expeditions. GE 1&2 were followed a few months later by 3&4. Furthermore, they stopped creating more GvG maps. All that must've been a hard kick in the gut for GvGers.

Having a multitude of Events over the past couple years drives Inno's profit massively. And all events (& GE as well) can be accessed across all platforms to maximize exposure & profit. Any confidence GvGers would've had about being a significant component of Inno's income no longer exists (despite the fact some still wish to believe otherwise).

Over the past year or so, Inno has repeatedly said in it's online sites/chats/etc that it's committed to addressing GvG issues. And yet, all of you GvGers keep mounting forum crusades to demand Inno fix it, convinced that Inno isn't doing anything.

... And Inno needs to hear that. And I can't believe they never read the forum. Businesses should have their finger on the pulse of all their consumer groups by reading feedback in social media outlets like Facebook, Twitter, Forums such as this one.

Inno once again publicly stated their commitment to doing something about GvG issues in December 2018 (in a Facebook video) - that's only 2 months ago! Yet, you persist in the thought that Inno isn't hearing any of you GvGers.

I really don't think many of you are concerned that GvG won't be fixed ("fixed" by all of your way of thinking appears to only involve improved game response times) or will be removed from the game entirely. After all, why would Inno keep saying it's planning to address GvG if it had no intention of doing so? Rather, IMHO many of you are scared that Inno is actually planning to significantly redesign it so that it can then be available to the other 70% (& growing) of its customer base too. Logically, that's what a for-profit cross-platform game company would do.

What would that mean? What GvGers have enjoyed & grown immensely familiar with will no longer exist, replaced by different features, requirements, strategies, etc. Play will no longer revolve around a single recalc time (lag issues!!). Heck, recalc as you know it may be eliminated entirely, replaced by some other concept. Fighting simply can't remain so massively skewed towards the ultra-strong & rich only, with all other guilds scrambling for scraps or a couple spots where they're "allowed to be" by elite guilds to merely act as their buffer. And every single guild without exception would start out at zero points & no hexes (or whatever Inno decides to have guilds fight each other over).

Change happens. I sincerely hope current GvGers chose to adapt when that change occurs -- using all your intra-guild cooperation to take on a brand new challenge instead of whining about the way things used to be.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

I get that GvG is not everyone's cup of tea but there are still a lot of us (many loyal long time spending and non-spending players) who enjoy this part of the game.

And we will never see how fighting a predictable AI environment will ever be more fun or more interesting or more engaging than fighting in a fluid environment with actual living, THINKING groups of people.

And Inno needs to hear that. And I can't believe they never read the forum. Businesses should have their finger on the pulse of all their consumer groups by reading feedback in social media outlets like Facebook, Twitter, Forums such as this one. The business I work for has a person who scours all that.

You keep thinking you're presenting information that Inno doesn't already know. You keep thinking all these passionate emotional pleas will change the internal data that's driving Inno's decision.

Do you think Inno doesn't know how many people engage in GvG daily? Do you think they don't know when the data overloads happen or how long they last? Do you think they don't know the cause or the solution? Do you think they don't know this irritates their GvG customers? Do you think they don't know they eventually need to fix it?

Do you think they don't know a GvG engine available to all is important to the continued success of the game? Do you think they don't know that mobile customers would also like a GvG system they can participate in?

What do you think they don't know?

It's not what Inno doesn't know that's the sticking point, it's what Inno knows that you and your cohorts don't know that's the sticking point. Their data and internal development road map doesn't support continued investment in the current GvG system. Why is that surprising?

Even without seeing Inno's internal data, it makes perfect sense to me. Given the costs, time, and effort (in that order) of rebuilding the entire GvG system from the ground up, the only thing that makes financial sense is to rebuild GvG to make it available to the entire user base, not just an ever dwindling sub-segment of players, no matter how passionate they are.

It's no different than Microsoft ending support for older operating systems. No one is going to take away your Windows XP, but you can complain until the cows come home, and you'll never, ever see another patch for it. To continue the OS analogy, right now Inno is continuing to support GvG with bug fixes as needed. However, known data lag issues during peak times while frustrating, are not bugs. They're the result of a fundamental flaw in the underlying structure of the existing GvG system.

As such, GvG lag won't be addressed until the bigger issue of #GvG for All is addressed. That's the cause you should be championing. Right now, you're just white noise in the background.

The point of all this being: sometimes squeaky wheels really do roll smoothly again, if they squeak with sufficient energy and persistence.

It's a great story with a great lesson and in matters such as those, I'm also tenacious as hell. However, this is not about someone getting up off their lazy behind and restoring a data tape from the backup closet. Had your request involved a large financial investment, the writing of new code, beta and bug testing, et al, you could have complained all the way up to the CEO and you still would have got, "We're very sorry, your messages are gone forever."

Spoiler: Is there hope?

I have no inside knowledge, this is entirely my own speculation based on logical deduction.

As long as FoE continues to be financially successful, it would be foolish to believe they won't eventually fix GvG. But again, when they do they will be building a new system from the ground up for both mobile and PC users alike. Rightly so, Inno wants to make as much money as they can. There's no doubt that a new GvG system that's available to their ENTIRE user base would be a MASSIVE money maker. No way is Inno walking away from that revenue opportunity.

However, two things we can never know are the end from the beginning and how GvG fits into the overall long term FoE framework. Inno knows both of those things. That knowledge allows them to work backwards to figure out the logical steps needed that will allow them to evolve the game from where it is now, to where they want to take it. It's a matter of supporting everything they need to support now, while building an infrastructure to support everything they want in the future.

For instance, maybe the infrastructure that was built and is currently expressed as Settlements will somehow be incorporated/adapted into the new GvG framework. Again, I'm just spit-balling here, but maybe in the new GvG you'll need to cooperatively build a guild settlement/city for each age/map you want to fight in GvG. I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of the new features "clearly pulling FoE in the wrong direction" being somehow incorporated into the expanded GvG framework.

The point is, who knows? We have no idea what Inno's vision for #GvG for All entails or how they're currently addressing it. I can almost guarantee that the new GvG won't just be a port of the current GvG system to mobile. I don't know what the new GvG will look like any more than the next guy, but I do know that to get from A to F, you have to get to B, then C, D, and E first.

I also know you're complaining about the wrong thing. If you want progress on GvG, you should be lobbying Inno to hurry up and introduce #GvG for All.

Bottom line, continuing to lobby for changes/improvements to the current GvG system will continue to get you nowhere. Waste your time if you must. If you really want Inno to fix GvG, you need to put your energy towards pushing Inno to accelerate their plans for #GvG for All.

 

[UBERhelp1]

Well, here's my anecdote about GvG:

It's kind of like be careful what you wish for. Think about it - GvG is declining, but Inno says they will do something about it. What if they mean they just plan on removing it? Honestly. It would stop everyone complaining about lag and most players will go on their way, completely oblivious of the change. Yes, there will be a small percentage that complains, but in the long run.... maybe not.

In my opinion, I actually feel as if Inno is creating a 100% new version of GvG, cross-platform, that has different gameplay. I don't know what that will be, but with the way that settlements and such are becoming pretty regular now, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Clash of Clans-type version. That would actually be pretty cool, but idk.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree with @RazorbackPirate and @UBERhelp1. Signs point to them replacing GvG at some point with a new and different version. So I'll leave this thread to those who still want to argue about it, and simply wait until Inno does whatever they're going to do. Who knows, maybe it'll be something more than a few diehards will actually enjoy.

 

[Colb777]

I wish more people would be supportive of this. If InnoGames was screwing up another aspect of the game that I wasn't crazy about (the boring settlements come to mind) I would at least try to show some fraction of support to others, not mock how stupid it is.

There are many different ways to play the game (most are wrong if you have any ambition) but there is nothing wrong with supporting fellow gamers in an issue that is as dire as the lag and bugs in GVG.

There obviously isn't one single argument here denying there really is a problem. So what can we do about it? If a post with this much attention isn't able to get the attention of the developers, what can? Many of us have put a lot of time, effort and, money into these endeavours. So where do we go from here? Are we chopped liver and should go play something else?

 

[Meat Butcher]

I would like to see Thi and Kurt explain why we have lag dressed up in funny costumes like this.
It is sad how this continues to happen, and worse during events when most players spend money on the game.