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My guild was hijacked (Storytime!)

Do you agree with the takeaway?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, what's not explicitly AGAINST the rules is implicitly WITHIN the rules. While certainly a crappy thing to do, plundering and sniping a guild is as legal as plundering a city or sniping a GB.

While it would be nice to have some redress, I support Inno not getting into the middle of what now is a 'he said / she said' situation.

The problem with trying to negotiate or agreeing to their terms, there is no honor among thieves. Even if you were to pay their current demands, there's no way to ensure they restore S to the guild.

I see no alternative but to let it drop and walk away.
 

Dominator - X

Well-Known Member
Story time. Get your popcorn folks, this one's a doozy.

A few months ago, a guild merged with ours. As part of that deal, the founder of my guild promised theirs founder rights (begrudgingly). For anonymity and to reduce confusion, we will call my old founder Sheela, and their old "founder" Satan.... Time had passed and Sheela was repeatedly advised to demote Satan, because Satan would do a lot of stupid things and was high risk. True to her word, Sheela would not demote Satan as it was part of their original deal.

Fast-forward to yesterday. I had been feeling very burnt out from the game and decided I was going to start a break, so I left the guild that morning. This break was short-lived, because the dying spark that drew me to this game to begin with and kept me here this long suddenly exploded into a new flame. A few hours later, I started seeing messages in our not-to-be-named 3rd party server that just seemed very odd, so I went to read them. Everyone in the guild was apparently being booted. I've tried to create a timeline as best I could from the messages here.
  • Satan invites an Interceptor and gives them founder rights.
  • Satan then leaves the guild.
  • Interceptor then threatens/blackmails/makes demands to the guildies and previous leaders. This part was unclear to me; I was just reading they wouldn't bow to him.
  • Interceptor then kicks out everyone from the guild (except for one, the Traitor, I'll get to that later)
  • Sheela and some other leaders use an old guild thread to communicate with them after they kicked Satan from it (Interceptor had not even been added to threads yet, that is how quick this happened)
  • By passed down information of old accounts on the world, word had gotten to Sheela that Interceptor was actually an alt account for Satan.
  • By this point, many members had created support tickets on the issue but were told it could not be helped.
  • We take refuge in a closely resembling guild.
  • Information had been corrected that Interceptor was not an alt account for Satan, but rather an alt account for a more infamous FOEer that I'm sure many have heard of. We will call him N if referred directly.
  • I was not on the PC, so I can't confirm whether it was N or Satan, but one of them was boasting about the hijack in the global chat and offering it to the highest bidder.
  • To taunt us, Interceptor changed the guild name with the word Takeover added to it.
  • Sheela was called last night (I guess they have each other's phone number?) by N who blackmailed Sheela with an old message she had written and demanded 50k FPs and/or leveling all of Interceptor's GBs to 100 to get the guild back. Sheela politely tells N to eat worms (kidding, I don't actually know what it was, but it was guaranteed not polite).
So now, we're just planning our revenge. I decided to submit a support ticket myself to see why it couldn't be helped. I was told that its against policy for support to intervene in guild affairs unless it's just to give someone founder rights to replace a verified inactive account and that there was no breach of rules with what I had reported. So it turns out you can be just like Interceptor with no repercussions. It's a completely valid way to play the game. Befriend a founder of another guild and convince them to give you founder rights in their #10 world ranking guild, then kick everyone out and extort it for profit. Just make sure it's not in writing, and you're good!
I was not aware that Founders could kick other Founders from a guild, unwillingly. With all due respect (if any is really due) "Sheela" is a fool. There is a difference between honoring an agreement, even when things are tough, than honoring an agreement when someone is purposely doing things to harm a shared entity. "Satan" should have been booted a long time ago, if what you say is accurate.
 

DeletedUser4441

Having started a guild over 7 years ago and in all that time we have had the same 2 founders. We have merged 5 or 6 other guilds into ours in that time, but the need to added more founders is un-necessary. The only thing a founder can do that a leader cannot is to promote/demote founders/leaders, rename the guild or dissolve it. (Don’t think I missed anything). Anyone foolish enough to give founders rights to some one they barely know is just asking for trouble.
 

Super Catanian

Well-Known Member
Anyone foolish enough to give founders rights to some one they barely know is just asking for trouble.
Yup. So much this.

INNO made a wise move in implementing the Leader role right below the Founder role. The Leader has almost all the rights as the Founder(s) without having the ability to cause as much potential trouble as them. This awesome feature allows Leaders to essentially be mini-Founders when they're not present, while still having their power checked.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
I was not aware that Founders could kick other Founders from a guild, unwillingly. With all due respect (if any is really due) "Sheela" is a fool. There is a difference between honoring an agreement, even when things are tough, than honoring an agreement when someone is purposely doing things to harm a shared entity. "Satan" should have been booted a long time ago, if what you say is accurate.

Founders can not kick other founders from a guild, but they can demote other founders and kick them after they are demoted.

Prohibiting a founderr from doing this is a discussion that pops up every time something like this happens.

Problem isn't in the system, but in the founders. Most are clueless. Everybody wants to "lead" his/her own guild,, but only a few know what they are doing.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Having started a guild over 7 years ago and in all that time we have had the same 2 founders. We have merged 5 or 6 other guilds into ours in that time, but the need to added more founders is un-necessary. The only thing a founder can do that a leader cannot is to promote/demote founders/leaders, rename the guild or dissolve it. (Don’t think I missed anything). Anyone foolish enough to give founders rights to some one they barely know is just asking for trouble.

You missed the one presented her. A founder can put a guild on sale.
 

Lannister the Rich

Well-Known Member
I'm glad it's not against the rules. I enjoy seeing drama - guild takeovers, alliances being broken and new ones being formed against a guild and so on.
I wouldn’t say I’m happy about it being a thing, but I agree on the drama part. Like I said in the OP, my plan was to take a break because the last month or so has just been so monotonous to me. Now, I have renewed enthusiasm.

Also, to all you saying Sheela messed up by trusting him, indeed she did. However, let’s be sure to not be blaming her in the comments. Remember, she didn’t cause the issue. You can almost always find a “if this didn’t happen, then that wouldn’t have happened”. Let’s stop at “if he hadn’t betrayed her trust...” Sheela is sad and blames herself enough. We all make mistakes, but others make malice.
 

Dominator - X

Well-Known Member
Founders can not kick other founders from a guild, but they can demote other founders and kick them after they are demoted.

Prohibiting a founderr from doing this is a discussion that pops up every time something like this happens.

Problem isn't in the system, but in the founders. Most are clueless. Everybody wants to "lead" his/her own guild,, but only a few know what they are doing.
That is wild. I imagine this would cause forged friendships to dissolve quickly. I can see a reality show spawn from this, with such drama. ;~}
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
That is wild. I imagine this would cause forged friendships to dissolve quickly. I can see a reality show spawn from this, with such drama. ;~}

I have seen it happen several times that founders got into an argument and one of the two dissolved the guild overnight

This will be some interesting reading

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/beware-of-rengi-inc.25794/

https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com...ment-of-the-guild-dragonstorm-on-korch.36038/

https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com...-modify-the-way-a-guild-can-be-deleted.36091/
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
If you’re a founder you’re essentially the owner of the guild. Someone has to be able to make the decisions on whether a guild is dissolved, what name it’s under and who should be trusted to have leaders rights. Thus you have the founder (and why only those you have absolute trust in to share the same intentions on how the guild should be handled should share founder status unless you’re prepared to lose the guild at any time)

Indeed, but it was over voice, so no proof. N has been doing this for a long time. He is very careful, but yes we are trying to catch him slipping
Great. So if they ever walk into the forums (or know someone who does) you’ve informed him of your intentions.
 

Super Catanian

Well-Known Member
Looking at the votes, half of people have agreed, and the other half have disagreed. Not only is the story very interesting, but this is obviously a very controversial topic as well.

I posted something similar about Founder rights months ago, and I'll sorta post it again...

When someone joins a Guild, they do so voluntarily, and indirectly sign themselves up for what's to come. Therefore, when the Founder does something dumb, the other members are not in a position to complain. If the Founder gives Founder rights to someone else, and that Founder does something dumb, again, the others are not in a position to complain, but the blame falls on the shoulders of both Founders, not just on one.

The nature of FoE suggests that the player ultimately becomes the supreme ruler of the entire world (and solar system, eventually). Although the Guild structure allows Leaders to be directly under Founders to stop them from doing really stupid sh*t (which is awesome), this also suggests that a monarchy is pretty much the only Guild power structure that really exists. Even if there are multiple Founders (monarchs or whatever), it only takes one of them to perform an irreversible change without even consulting the others.

A post made by @Godly Luke in a thread of mine asked if there have ever been any democratic Guilds. That kind of power structure is virtually impossible in the current system, since it is impossible for multiple Founders to check the other's power, as I mentioned above. Wonder what kind of change would result if that were to somehow be implemented...

Personally, my gaming conscience does not allow me to do such things if I were to become the new Founder of a Guild. I'm very happy to be the Leader that I currently am, spending my time in instructing the other Guild members and leading them in GBG.
 

Doc Gonzo...

New Member
Those were very interesting reads Nagent. After reading those a bulb popped over my head, and I realize that some people take this game seriously, or not so much and just test to see what they can get away with. Peeps in here are correct when they say you probably forgot more about this game than most know, so I will be thumbs upping all your -1’s, even on my own. I’m glad I started reading these forums, there’s a lot of insightful and bombastic shite involved. And I’m just kidding about putting the N in front of agents name in case y’all can’t take a joke
 

DeletedUser10080

Immoral, unethical, and reprehensible conduct is not just permitted but sometimes encouraged by Inno. Why shouldn't it? Inno itself engages in such practices.

I was part of a guild (years ago now) that was hijacked. The guild was maxed out on levels and had far and away the most days at #1 in GVG. It took only one player (who managed to gain founders' rights) to screw an entire guild worth of players (more than 75 people) out of the rewards we had worked so hard to achieve. Inno's reply was basically "tough excrement!"

Inno is never going to stop tactics that border on breaking the rules because they feel that it increases their chances of selling diamond packages. Inno breaks its own rules for the same reason.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
It took only one player (who managed to gain founders' rights) to screw an entire guild worth of players (more than 75 people)
The founder is the creator and/or owner of the guild in regards to the game. It's their right to manage who stays, who leaves and how the guild is managed because it's their guild not the members guild. You can only stay with the owners permission with the leaders by extension being able to provide that permission. The only way to prevent guild deletion is if you also prevent players from ever being kicked from guilds. Which would be terrible for the game
 

DeletedUser10080

"Sabotaging is one of the war strategy..done all the time...dont like it...go play planting daisy flowers game. :p"

Ever hear of the Geneva Convention? Yes, even war has rules. I guess you would promote torture, nerve gas, biological weapons, and genocide.
 
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