When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

[DeletedUser]

Tony 85 the Generous, post: 340272, member: 44867"]

Ban greedy practices like 1.8, 1.85 , swaps etc. This creates top flowing wealth only and will suppress you as a guild and make you very noncompetitive in GbG.

Please explain how you find these greedy practices. The financial math proves that a 1.9 thread is the cheapest and most efficient way to spend forge points to level great buildings. It is a mathematical fact and cannot be disputed.

You just argued that you agreed with me

I see no connection between leveling threads and competitiveness in GE. Please explain your direct correlation.

More combat GBs leveled means more players can fight harder. Why is this even a question ?

So you are saying that Inno designed GBG to have alliances and groups of guilds to bully other guilds to submitting to their will while dictating finishing positions?

No they made it hard to win without putting in months and years of effort , go buy a book of gold stars and give yourself one everyday if that will make the sting of reality less for you

 

[Beorn Bear]

Who cares about any of this? GBG has turned into GvG 2.0. Nothing but alliances and farming in the upper leagues, and loads of nonparticipating guilds in the lower leagues. B.O.R.I.N.G.

 

[Plain Red Justice]

Please explain how you find these greedy practices. The financial math proves that a 1.9 thread is the cheapest and most efficient way to spend forge points to level great buildings. It is a mathematical fact and cannot be disputed.

There needs to be a thread on the guides section with regards to swap threads so whenever someone epic like these appears, you'd just paste them a link why they're wrong. It's kind of sad how a lot of people doesn't understand both fundamentally and mathematically why and when swaps are good

 

[DeletedUser]

Who cares about any of this? GBG has turned into GvG 2.0. Nothing but alliances and farming in the upper leagues, and loads of nonparticipating guilds in the lower leagues. B.O.R.I.N.G.

Agreed , they should have a minor league and a major league , the upper one having the best rewards but also only having active guilds in it. As for GVG ? I don't, I find it boring as well.

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

As for how you figure out who else is on the map it would take a bit more work but once the map fills out you'll have an idea of who's out there more or less. There aren't that many guilds for the top level that you wouldn't be able to figure out who else was on the map once enough sectors were taken. More work yes but not impossible or that hard.

In fog of war, you can't see any sectors that are not adjacent to yours. Right now I could not see more than 7 sectors outside the 10 we occupy of the 60 sectors on the map.

I am sure you could work out swap sectors without communicating. Swap sectors are not my primary or even secondary directive for the suggestion. The driver of the suggestion is to break up the ability to form alliances, to stop the sequestering of one guild by the others on the map, and the bullying of the guild that is "new" to the league (ie, the one that just moved up).

The question stands, how would you find the other guild names on the map with you? The guild names, other than yours, are never given on the leadership board until GBG closes on Thursday and would be no longer listed as the besieger on the sectors (I took the latter as a given, but I should have stated explicitly for this audience). If there are no guild names, anywhere on the map how would you figure out if your favorite friendly guild or "that guild you hate" is on the map?

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

Tony 85 the Generous, post: 340272, member: 44867"]

Ban greedy practices like 1.8, 1.85 , swaps etc. This creates top flowing wealth only and will suppress you as a guild and make you very noncompetitive in GbG.

Please explain how you find these greedy practices. The financial math proves that a 1.9 thread is the cheapest and most efficient way to spend forge points to level great buildings. It is a mathematical fact and cannot be disputed.

You just argued that you agreed with me

You said ban. I said keep. That is not an agreement. Spending your valuable forge points wisely and getting the best effiency is not greed it is convserative and wise. How many arc levels did you guild complete since the beginning of October? Our guild completed over 650 levels across 50 arcs. Then there are the levels of the other buildings that are not tracked/reported. I fail to see how this creates top flowing wealth. Looks more like a trickle down effect that actually works.

I see no connection between leveling threads and competitiveness in GE. Please explain your direct correlation.

More combat GBs leveled means more players can fight harder. Why is this even a question ?

This creates top flowing wealth only and will suppress you as a guild and make you very noncompetitive in GbG.

You have made an obvious contridiction in your postings. *mic drop* Swap threads, especially a 1.9 thread will result in higher level gbs and make you more competitive, not less.

Stop asking Inno to spoon feed you and just play it like it was meant to be played

So you are saying that Inno designed GBG to have alliances and groups of guilds to bully other guilds to submitting to their will while dictating finishing positions?

No they made it hard to win without putting in months and years of effort , go buy a book of gold stars and give yourself one everyday if that will make the sting of reality less for you

Inno didn't "make" alliances. The players did. Inno (from what I have seen) has done little to nothing to prevent them. So if you mean that Inno by allowing alliances has made it hard to compete, then you are absolutely correct. Take away the alliance aspect, and any guild that has earned enough LP has a shot at competing effectively in the season. I did not say win. I did not say come in first. Just they will be able to compete.

 

[Vger]

There needs to be a thread on the guides section with regards to swap threads so whenever someone epic like these appears, you'd just paste them a link why they're wrong. It's kind of sad how a lot of people doesn't understand both fundamentally and mathematically why and when swaps are good

Feel free to start such a thread in the guides section about swap threads. We look forward to reading your epic wisdom on the subject.

In the mean time, this thread is about GBG. Something we all know is broken, but nobody really knows how to fix. ?

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

In the mean time, this thread is about GBG. Something we all know is broken, but nobody really knows how to fix. ?

Someone (Inno) needs to review the commentary and decide if there is an issue. Based on all the posts, there is. They will need to determine exactly what the issue is and how to fix it.

Based on a combination of reading the forum and my own experience, the summary is:
1. Guilds move up and down too quickly from league to league. There is no long term performance or ability basis included. Lucky matchup one week you move up. Unlucky matchup one week you move down. Fact is you can go from 1000LP Diamond League 1 to Platinum league in one season, and back just as fast.

2. The first results in uneven match ups with guilds "that do not belong" or cannot "compete on the map, which is exacerbated by:

3. Guilds are able or allowed to form alliances wherein they dictate the finishing order and/or actively gang up on one or a few guilds to keep them from making any progress in the season, or purposely "send them down" because of #1.

I do wish a representative from Inno would contact a real actual random player or players for their position, thoughts, and opinion.

 

[Vger]

I do wish a representative from Inno would contact a real actual random player or players for their position, thoughts, and opinion.

Inno probably has better tools at their disposal than that. They should be able to slice an dice the numbers from GBG and determine things like customer engagement and diamond spend. Their numbers are probably more accurate than asking random players for their position would be.
I do hope that when they slice and dice the numbers they will see that there is a problem here and tweak things a bit.

 

[DeletedUser]

You said ban. I said keep. That is not an agreement. Spending your valuable forge points wisely and getting the best effiency is not greed it is convserative and wise. How many arc levels did you guild complete since the beginning of October? Our guild completed over 650 levels across 50 arcs. Then there are the levels of the other buildings that are not tracked/reported. I fail to see how this creates top flowing wealth. Looks more like a trickle down effect that actually works.



You have made an obvious contridiction in your postings. *mic drop* Swap threads, especially a 1.9 thread will result in higher level gbs and make you more competitive, not less.


So you are saying that Inno designed GBG to have alliances and groups of guilds to bully other guilds to submitting to their will while dictating finishing positions?

Inno didn't "make" alliances. The players did. Inno (from what I have seen) has done little to nothing to prevent them. So if you mean that Inno by allowing alliances has made it hard to compete, then you are absolutely correct. Take away the alliance aspect, and any guild that has earned enough LP has a shot at competing effectively in the season. I did not say win. I did not say come in first. Just they will be able to compete.

I said 1.9 is the only way and swaps are guild greed you are just not reading well tonight

 

[DeletedUser]

We do full boosts at 1.92 for those with 80 Arcs all the time , 1.8 is just stealing from your lower players

 

[GreatThunderclap]

I mean a single diamond league for each world, not 40+ guilds sitting in diamond where you have 7 different diamond GBGs going on simultaneously every 2 weeks. 7-8 guilds in diamond total, everyone else should be plat and below. On my world we have 42 guilds in diamond this round, and as it's plainly obvious in my original post that should not be the case.

Really, the top 7 guilds in each world need to simply be pushed into a permanent teir with themselves only.

 

[GreatThunderclap]

How do you feel about the OPs suggestion that because your Guild isn't competitive at the very highest end of Diamond that your Guild should not be allowed in Diamond at all?

Honestly, the way our world is, that would work. The problem isnt GbG. The problem is arcs. You want the problem in GbG to go away. Neuter arc so max level is 30. No other change. No grandfathering either. Everyone wakes up to 30. Within 6 months you will have competitive GbG. The reason we have this level of dominance is the top guild doesnt have to sacrifice anything.
The games mechanics are abuseable if you know how. The top person in my world has 18 level GbG trophies. I have 1 and 1/2 because my guild wont fight as hard in diamond because we dont have the resources others do. We would if everyone was on the same level. Swaps arent fun. Neither is dominance

 

[Algona]

You want the problem in GbG to go away.

Well, now, that ain't rightly true.

I play three worlds. One has been Diamond most of the year, the others bounce between Diamond and Platinum.

I don't see any problems with GBG, but that's just me.

I recognize that other folk have problems with GBG, also there is no concensus on what those problems are or how to resolve them.

I'm pretty sure INNO doesn't have any problems with GBG else they'd be working on solutions.

Meanwhile, I'll keep playing the way I have for five+ years. Adopt to how INNO designs their game instead of worrying about trying to get them to change the game to fix my problem

 

[Spotmeows]

What do you mean by easiest attacks?

What I mean is, suppose the outer rings attacks only have one wave of enemy troops, and often with most or all of the same type so it's easy to choose troops with an advantage over them. An extreme example: the enemy is all artillery, so you can choose the fast troops with they flying ability.

Then, when you get to the second ring you have a small second wave and the troops are better mixed. The same for the third wave, but with 5 or 6 troops in the second wave.

Then the inner ring could have 8+8 with troops well mixed and a higher percentage advantage for the second wave. That way, along with 7-item negotiations, you'd really have to earn one of those sectors.

 

[Spotmeows]

Just to give an example - my guild right now is cornered near its base, and when I want to play and choose "negotiate", I have gotten 6-item negotiations MORE THAN 90% OF THE TIME so I end up attacking instead (currently 50 attacks and 3 negotiations). I don't know if other players in my guild are having the same experience, but it sure is an annoying handicap.

Obviously the real reason this is happening is that 6-item negotiations usually can't be done in only 3 tries (you'll probably have about a 20% success rate) so you have to, here we go again, SPEND DIAMONDS. Or keep trying and throw away dozens of goods.

What I'm saying is the sacrifice should be proportional to the reward. That's why I suggest making the outer rings easy and the inner rings harder. When you have to earn a place on the mountaintop, it SHOULD require more sacrifice than a place on the periphery.

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

Try this for "pretending GBG is balanced". There are 7 guilds in diamond 2 on the map (913-925LP). Everyone is trying to work towards rewards but trying not to capture sectors, because NOT ONE of the seven wants to be in the top 2 and advance to Diamond 1 and be completely outmatched and/or bullied about by the other diamond guilds. That is 7 guilds in diamond league and not one of them want to move up to just be routed. How many guilds are in diamond 1 and diamond 2? Here are 7 that want no part of the way it is currently setup.

Our guild has decided to take one for the map and said the heck with it. We are attacking EVERYTHING for the rewards. The strategy is to throw and use everything this season then take a two week vacattion. They have already suspended the GBG participation requirement for next season. "Next season we expect to be at 1000LP and outmatched, again. We will not be spending any guild treasury next season. The GBG requirement will be suspended for next season. Attack with all your might this season, get what you can, then relax next season and attack if or when you want."

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

So a bunch of guilds determined that they could win more rewards by staying at a level they are competitive in? So what? That's a valid strategy and doesn't indicate that GBG is broken. That's your guild (and the others) maximizing the rewards that they can generate out of GBG in general.

Also you aren't 'taking one' for the map. Your taking advantage of the opportunity that arose to maximize what you can get out of GBG and using next season to build up your goods as you no doubt are using them more this season than usual.

 

[Emberguard]

I do wish a representative from Inno would contact a real actual random player or players for their position, thoughts, and opinion.

That's precisely what a feedback thread is. Random actual players posting their position, thoughts and opinions. Also every now and then Inno does ingame surveys that allow players to give their feedback.

Neuter arc so max level is 30. No other change. No grandfathering either. Everyone wakes up to 30. Within 6 months you will have competitive GbG. The reason we have this level of dominance is the top guild doesnt have to sacrifice anything.

I would expect a move like that to have the majority of active players quit on the spot, quite possibly even kill the game. Those who are established would be rightfully irate if they lost upto a million Forge Points worth of levels overnight and those who don't have Arcs would have a permanent disadvantage from those who already hyper lvl'd their GBs. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between owner FPs and contributor FPs either as purchase of goods would be included within those FPs made by contributors

Also if it's not competitive now, neutering Arc won't suddenly make it competitive if everyone stayed playing. Because then those who have lvl 30-180+ GBs would still have lvl 30-180+ GBs to work with. There's guilds that have hyper lvl'd the other Treasury GBs in addition to the Arc anyway. So such a change would only be kicking down the little guy. The big guy is already established enough that they'd be able to keep going if they wanted without feeling it beyond no longer having 1.9 for future leveling

Would you really want to remove your ability to lvl the Arc above lvl 30 and still have to go up against those with a bunch of Lvl 80-180 GBs?

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

So a bunch of guilds determined that they could win more rewards by staying at a level they are competitive in? So what? That's a valid strategy and doesn't indicate that GBG is broken. That's your guild (and the others) maximizing the rewards that they can generate out of GBG in general.

Not at all. That is not what I said.

There are 7 guilds in diamond 2 on the map (913-925LP). Everyone is trying to work towards rewards but trying not to capture sectors, because NOT ONE of the seven wants to be in the top 2 and advance to Diamond 1 and be completely outmatched and/or bullied about by the other diamond guilds. That is 7 guilds in diamond league and not one of them want to move up to just be routed.

The title of the thread is "When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?" and here are seven guilds and a situation that perfectly exemplifies the title of this thread.

Also you aren't 'taking one' for the map. Your taking advantage of the opportunity that arose to maximize what you can get out of GBG and using next season to build up your goods as you no doubt are using them more this season than usual.

We are taking one "for the map". We don't want to move up to diamond 1 where we know we will be unable to compete. A decision and strategy were made around taking the top spot and moving up. Try to get 2x the rewards this season since we will get little nothing next season. There isn't a single member that wants to spend 11 days twiddling their thumbs waiting for the next GBG season to end. Also, with the map covered in SCs, we aren't actually spending that much this season and will spend nothing next season. The point of spending nothing is not to build up the threasury, it is to not waste the treasury.