• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

[Guide] Cosmic Raven's Version of Heavy Questing

DeletedUser28446

Thx again CR. By the way when you state the amount of supplies and coins needed to tech sprint to colonial clockmaking, are you using that amount for spending on FPs or just general cost for the techs to get there? I guess what I am asking is something you are going to write in detail later in your thread. By the way my CF just hit lvl 5.
 

DeletedUser23444

Thx again CR. By the way when you state the amount of supplies and coins needed to tech sprint to colonial clockmaking, are you using that amount for spending on FPs or just general cost for the techs to get there? I guess what I am asking is something you are going to write in detail later in your thread. By the way my CF just hit lvl 5.

Any coins supplies numbers I give are the costs to unlock all technologies between point A and point B, plus to have enough coins and supplies remaining to completely remodel the city. Remember we usually are tearing down all our previous supply buildings and housing and replacing it all. Plus there will be side quest to construct things as well.
 

DeletedUser28446

Thx for the clarity CR. I am saving up my FP packages I received as quest rewards, using some to raise my CF lvl, but keeping the rest to tech sprint. It's gonna be a long while to have enough.
 

DeletedUser28711

It will take some time for me too. I just completed my sprint & rebuild plans from the end of HMA to a short stay in LMA for diamonds to Clockmakers in CA. It will cost me:

>4.6M Coins
>2.2M Supplies
1371 FPs
660 IA Goods
1340 EMA Goods
830 HMA Goods
420 LMA Goods
180 CA Goods

This total includes only the cost associated with the tech tree, teardowns & rebuilds. As CR stated, cost for side quest, event quest & other things will require more of a nest egg. Can't wait to get a CF up to help.
 

DeletedUser23444

Thx for the clarity CR. I am saving up my FP packages I received as quest rewards, using some to raise my CF lvl, but keeping the rest to tech sprint. It's gonna be a long while to have enough.

I'll add more to the guide on this later but I usually coach players to do the following with their FP packs:

  1. 10-Packs — I always coach players to save all 10-packs of FPs that we score, no matter how we scored them. These FPs should only be spent on our next tech sprint. This advice never changes as we advance through each time period in the game. So while we seemingly halt all forward tech advancement so that we can swap to GBs and quest, this is not exactly true. Our stockpile of 10-packs are actually our tech tree progress, only we haven't spent the FPs yet; we will spend them once we have amassed all the other resources required for our tech sprint.

  2. 5-Packs — I coach players differently on using their 5-packs, depending on their specific situation.
    • When a player gets to any period we would park in and work quests in for a long time (HMA, CA, ME, and FE), then my advice is to budget the average number of 5-packs we can generate by questing and use those FPs, along with hourly and building FPs, in our FP Swap Partnerships to level up GBs faster. The more FPs we swap, the faster we level up our GBs. However, this also increases how often we score GB donation rewards, which in turn increases how often we score 10-packs that we only use on tech sprints.

    • However, whenever a player get close to making the next tech sprint, then what to do with 5-packs of FPs really depends on if the player has amassed enough total FPs (which includes the ability to spend massive piles of coins on FPs) for the next tech sprint. If we need more FPs for our sprint, then we dial back from swapping our 5-packs and save those up as well. If we have more than enough FPs amassed for our next tech sprint, then we should swap every 5-pack we own.

    • And either branch of advice above gets impacted by Special Events. Sometimes a special event might offer a special building that is worth being pushed out of our current time period to score such a building. (But the preferred strategy is to unlock one of the skippable techs that we have skipped over in the tree to use for special event quest credit.) In such cases, a player might need to suspend all FPs Swaps so as to make fast tech progress to get the city set up again for heavy questing in the next period.

  3. 2-Packs — I use my 2-packs of FPs sort of as my real-life "small change jar" — it doesn't matter how poor I am, the money in my small change jar can be used for anything I want to use it for. In FoE terms, I spend my 2 packs on things like accepting external trades, especially those where I am getting a good deal compared to what the actual market value is for the goods in question. (Not all goods from the same age have the same market value. See HMA Rope and HMA Brick as the first example.) I might also use a few 2-Packs to complete a "Spend FPs" quest quickly to get it off my books so that I can work a different quest when my city is ready to collect. I also might spend some of these tiny packs in a swoop on a GB. But the key point here is that I never budget this packs for any specific purpose — they are a tiny flexible buffer of FPs I can use at my discretion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser23444

It will take some time for me too. I just completed my sprint & rebuild plans from the end of HMA to a short stay in LMA for diamonds to Clockmakers in CA. It will cost me:

>4.6M Coins
>2.2M Supplies
1371 FPs
660 IA Goods
1340 EMA Goods
830 HMA Goods
420 LMA Goods
180 CA Goods

This total includes only the cost associated with the tech tree, teardowns & rebuilds. As CR stated, cost for side quest, event quest & other things will require more of a nest egg. Can't wait to get a CF up to help.

While this is true of your situation. Keep in mind that not everyone has the same amount of land, and thus their rebuilds all cost different. Also, GB levels impact city design as well. Players who leveled up the happiness GBs I recommend spend less coins and supplies on cultural buildings, while others will need to construct more of them. And the totals for coins and supplies I coach are also intended to let the player afford to spam UBQs when they reach Colonial, and the quest costs more to complete up there. I would rather you all get there with resources to spare, than having Mother Hubbard's cupboard bare.
 

DeletedUser28286

CR I know you're busy and have a lot of other sections of this guide to write up, but I'd love it if you could finish the GB section of this guide in the near future. Thanks for all your hard work :) I wish there was a heavy questing guild on E world. It's much slower leveling up my GBs without others who are just as dedicated to the style of play. I'm in HMA and I have two FP swap buddies in Oceanic Future so I can get top contribution spots on high level GBs that I need prints for, but it's slow going because they need so many FPs to level them. In order to save my FP packs I only spend 1/2 of whatever I get from my daily recurring quests, so often people with high level Arcs swoop before I can lock even third.

Edit: Finally got my last Chateau BP last night though so I'm excited to see how much extra progress I can make once I finally get it built and leveled! I'm sure the extra FP packs from the bonus will dramatically increase how much I'm able to contribute and how fast I can save up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser28427

Edit: Finally got my last Chateau BP last night though so I'm excited to see how much extra progress I can make once I finally get it built and leveled! I'm sure the extra FP packs from the bonus will dramatically increase how much I'm able to contribute and how fast I can save up.

The 5 FP pack reward isn't affected by CF.

On another note, I was interested in what level CF you would need to actually make "money" on UBQs. So I made this little table:

uKozaCc.png


Cost is coins + supplies. The average value assumes you'd get just as many small rewards as the large ones. It doesn't take much to get to the breakpoint in IA so this is something potentially interesting for people starting in a new world.
 

DeletedUser28446

So according to this chart, in HMA I'll need to get mymCF to lvl 19? That is insane.
 

DeletedUser28299

Kragan, that assumes you only care about coins+supplies. In many Ages one of the two resources will outstrip the other. In which case your effective break point is easier to reach than that number.

In all ages you are getting goods, FPs, and medals that are worth far more than the coins and supplies.

In terms of practical use, Chateau level 4-5 plus St Marks 3-4 plus lighthouse 3-4 (which is very doable) means you can use the UBQ about the same number of times as the 2x 24 hour supply quests each day while still having your supply+coins levels go up each day. So at that point you are already in the heavy questing mode where nothing useful gets plundered and your goods production through quests is better than making them through buildings.
 

DeletedUser23444

So according to this chart, in HMA I'll need to get mymCF to lvl 19? That is insane.
Um no.

The 5 FP pack reward isn't affected by CF.

On another note, I was interested in what level CF you would need to actually make "money" on UBQs. So I made this little table:

Cost is coins + supplies. The average value assumes you'd get just as many small rewards as the large ones. It doesn't take much to get to the breakpoint in IA so this is something potentially interesting for people starting in a new world.

While I applaud your effort Neokarasu, it slightly misses the objective of why we construct and level up CF quickly in HMA.

  1. Certainly constructing and leveling up a CF will help us reduce how fast we drain our stockpiles of coins and supplies, by buffing the payout of the large and small coins and supplies packages we score from quest rewards. However, the point of constructing and leveling up CF is not to turn a profit on the number of coins or supplies we score from quest rewards compared to the coins or supplies we pay to complete UBQs. The purpose of the CF is to more efficiently help us turn coins and supplies (money that jingles likes dimes and quarters) into: FP Packs, Medals, Goods, blueprints, and diamonds (money that folds like 5 and 10 dollar bills). Without a CF in FE, I would need to pay 500K coins + 500K supplies (2 UBQs) to have a 30% chance produce 10 random FE goods. However, with just a level 5 CF (+90% quest reward bonus), I would only need to pay 250K coins + 250K supplies (1 UBQ) to produce the same 10 random FE goods. And if I happen to miss out on goods and instead score coins or supplies, which it is sort of like a partial free-spin, I get back some portion of the total cost to complete the UBQ.

  2. Our city is always going to have coins production, since we will always have houses for population. And we are always going to have supplies production, since we are always going to complete some "Produce Supplies" quests. This means that we will always have a production source of both coins and supplies to fund our UBQ habit where we did not have those coins or supplies yesterday — we will always have new coins and supplies coming into our system and through our process. This is one of two reasons why the HQS calls for constructing and leveling up both LoA and StM — to ensure we are producing enough coins and supplies. (The other reason is we will need their x2 unrefined goods later in ME and beyond.) One of the biggest mistakes questers make is neglecting leveling up their LoA and StM, believing that these GBs are not as powerful as others. Nothing could be further from the truth — these are hands down two of the most valuable GBs in the entire game, and we can afford to construct both of them very early on.

  3. Never, ever, ever, ever (and I mean never, ever, ever, ever, forever and ever) level up any GB beyond level 10 if you still own other GBs in your city that are not yet level 10. This is true for each, every, and all GBs in the game, no matter which GB it is. The FP cost of each GB level above 10, compared to the benefits increase for that same level, gets worse and worse the higher above Level 10 the GB reaches—the returns always keep diminishing each higher level. Each higher GB level above Level 10 will cost more and more FPs than the previous level did. But at the same time, each higher level above 10 will ether provide the same increase as the previous level, or even a lower increase than the previous level of the combined benefits of that GB. In stark contrast, leveling any GB toward level 10 is always a better return on investment (not to mention much faster progress toward reaching the next level) for the same number of FPs spent. This is why I advise constructing GBs in a very specific order, and also leveling them up in a very specific order.

Eventually, after every GB we own is level 10, we will have a plan to Stratosphere a few select GBs. And yes, the CF is one of those GBs; but we don't start Stratosphering any GB until all of our GBs have already reached level 10.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser28446

Thank you both for the clarity. I have my CF at 6 my LoA at 7 and StM at 6.
 

DeletedUser28427

CR, that wasn't the point of my post. I was pointing out a different playstyle using CF and staying in IA for a significant amount of time to abuse UBQs.

Based on your reward distribution data, quest rewards coins/supplies 50% of the time, FP 6%, medals 6%, BP 8%, goods 30%. I fixed my table to account for the difference in small/large coins/supplies distribution but it's not massively different. So when we get to the "break even" point, we essentially get a free roll 50% of the time on UBQs. At CF levels higher than the breakpoint, we gain resources 50% of the time on UBQs. So that means subsequent UBQs are getting cheaper. The question is can we get it cheap enough to go "infinite"? The answer is yes, but it requires CF level that is sky high (lv 49 to be exact). When we go infinite, we essentially have as many payouts (FPs, goods, etc.) as we have the patience clicking through UBQs.

Of course this takes significantly more set up than the normal recurring quest but it's something I'm interested in experimenting on.
 

DeletedUser23444

CR, that wasn't the point of my post. I was pointing out a different playstyle using CF and staying in IA for a significant amount of time to abuse UBQs.

No, just no.


The HQS does not advocate parking any age that is not named: HMA, CA, ME, or FE, any longer than required to have each recurring quest pay us 20 diamonds each one time. We might use Indy if a player has already advanced past CA before they learned about HQS, but that age is not really an ideal age to park in a long time.

More often than not, I coach players to race up to HMA Alchemy, then park there and quest until they can afford to sprint to CA, then park in CA until all their GBs are level 10, then sprint up 1 period each month to Ind and PE (again for diamonds only). Then sprint to ME park there for as long as they want, until they can afford to sprint to FE. Then sprint up 1 era-per-month through PME, CE, and TE (again mainly for diamonds only). Until they finally park in FE as long as they want to, since GBs that produce Guild Goods are much less valuable when producing either AFE or OFE guild goods.

We DO NOT park in either the Bronze Age or the Iron Age even 1 second longer than required to score diamonds. Why the HELL would we? Let's look at each resource we could score from quest rewards.

  • Goods — HMA goods are vastly worth more than IA goods. And we can always trade HMA goods down 1:2 for EMA and then trade those EMA goods down again 1:2 for Iron Age goods. So 1 HMA good is worth 4 Iron Age goods.

  • Medals — The Base Medals package in HMA is 30 medals while in Iron Age it is only 10 medals. If we have a +90% quest reward bonus from CF bonus applied to either base medals package, then we would score 19 medals per quest in IA and 57 medals per quest in HMA. HMA is produces +50% more medals per quest than Iron Age does.

  • FP Packs — Given the available land we have in HMA compared to the small 3x2 supply building size, HMA allows us to complete many more quests per day than Iron Age will, especially since the smallest IA supply building is 4x3, twice the size of the HMA buildings. We are going to score more FP packs per day in HMA than we will in Iron Age.

  • Blueprints — In HMA we can score BPs for 5 useful GBs: SoZ, LoA, HS, CoA, StM out of a possible 8 GBs; this means 62.5% of the BPs we score are useful and 37.5% of the BPs are completely useless. But in the Iron Age, we can only score BPs for 2 useful GBs: SoZ and LoA out of a possible 4 GBs; this means that only 50% of all BPs we score are useful and the other 50% of the BPs are completely useless. And by staying in a lower age longer, we score too many BPs for the lowest-aged GBs, and we delay how long we must wait to construct the other 3 GBs we could score BPS for in HMA.

This is precisely why the HQS does not advocate for parking in the cheap seats of questing (EMA or below) any longer than absolutely required to score diamonds. What you are describing is the old and outdated strategy of "quest looping", not Heavy Questing. The HQS consistently outperforms quest looping, because we have improved and refined the process to maximize the production of: Goods, Medals, and FPs. We do not care about coins and supplies.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser23444

Update to everyone. I've added an outline of hotlinks to various guide sections in the first post of the topic. I've also moved some things around.

And I am slowly starting to work on the detailed analysis of GBs and how they either fit, or do not fit, into the HQS. For now I have one GB broken down, and I mention another. Both of these GBs have been a great source of debate between other players and myself.

Click here to jump to the GB section.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser8152

The FP cost of each GB level above 10, compared to the benefits increase for that same level, gets worse and worse the higher above Level 10 the GB reaches—the returns always keep diminishing each higher level. Each higher GB level above Level 10 will cost more and more FPs than the previous level did. But at the same time, each higher level above 10 will ether provide the same increase as the previous level, or even a lower increase than the previous level of the combined benefits of that GB. In stark contrast, leveling any GB toward level 10 is always a better return on investment (not to mention much faster progress toward reaching the next level) for the same number of FPs spent.
Are you quite sure that is true for the arc? Although the % bonus gained decreases, the fact that the FP rewards goes up means that typically you can earn a net FP profit by working with a group to level your arcs up high.
 

DeletedUser23444

Are you quite sure that is true for the arc? Although the % bonus gained decreases, the fact that the FP rewards goes up means that typically you can earn a net FP profit by working with a group to level your arcs up high.

I get where you are going with this. But it's not quite the subject matter of the post you are quoting me from.

The bonus resources we score (FPs, Medals, and blueprints) from owning an Arc are actually a very complex function of many different factors:
  1. Our Arc's current level, which in turn determines the specific GB donation reward % bonus that will get multiplied to any GB donation reward that we score. This is specifically what my quote above pertains to. Each Arc level above level 10 will only raise the GB donation reward % bonus +1%. In contrast, leveling up the Arc to each different GB level between level 1 and level 10 (inclusive) yields a much larger increase in the GB donation reward bonus than every level above 10.

  2. The specific GB we are donating to. Donating FPs to a level 10 SoZ is never going to pay the same total rewards as donating FPs to a level 10 Alcatraz. Some GBs just have better returns on investment than others.

  3. The specific GB level we are donating to. Donating to any level 1 GB is never going to yield as much ROI as donating to a level 10 GB. Even if we had a +100 % donation reward bonus. Scoring 200% of 10 FPs is still only 20 FPs.

  4. The specific donation reward slot we secure on the current level of the target GB we are donating to. The player who secures the 1st slot always gets paid the largest base package of donation rewards (before any Arc bonuses is applied) and the player in the 6th slot never gets paid anything. So the math here works the same as the math for point #3 above. Scoring 200% of 0 FPs is still only 0 FPs.

Leveling up the Arc from Level 10 to level 11 will cost 995 FPs and yet only increase our Donation Reward Bonus +1%. Since every Arc level above 10 will only increase the donation reward bonus +1%, and since each level will cost more-and-more FPs, the specific case of raising the Arc from level 10 to level 11 is the best case scenario — the higher up we level the Arc, the more FPs each higher level will cost yet we still only get +1%. So let's look at the true impact of increasing the Arc's donation reward bonus +1%.

Securing 1st place on a level 30 Alcatraz pays a base rewards package of:
330 2,816 7

I'm choosing a very high and lucrative GB level here to illustrate my point.

Now let's buff the base rewards above by a Level 10 Arc donation reward bonus of +31%
We would score: 433 3,689 9

Now let's buff the base rewards by a Level 11 Arc donation reward bonus of +32%
We would score: 439 3,745 9

So the total increase between us owning a level 10 Arc and a level 11 Arc when scoring:
  • On the same reward slot
  • On the same GB level
  • And on the same GB type
would be:
+6 +56 +0

So our +1% increase in donation reward bonus, which we paid 995 FPs for, managed to increase our net reward package by what you see above. We would need to score 1st place on a Level 30 Alcatraz 167 times, before we would get back the value of the extra 995 FPs we paid for level 11, when only scoring +6 FPs more each time we scored thusly.

Now let's say we took the same 995 FPs and instead applied them to a brand new SoZ that for some reason we skipped earlier in the game and just now put down in the Stix. We would quickly level our SoZ up from level 0 to level 7, even to almost half-way between level 7 and level 8. These 7 GB levels would combine to increase of our city's combat bonus +21%/+21%, for the same total cost of 995 FPs. By my math, the value of a +21%/+21% combat bonus is worth a Hell of lot more total value to my city than increasing my reward for securing 1st place on a level 30 Alcatraz a grand total +6 FPs, +56 medals, and +0 blueprints.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser27184

CR - I had already a city here in FoE, when I read your article. For the last month I tried to fix multiple issues in order to align to the written above, but now I have one big issue that I am not sure what to do.

In the Continent map, I have passed the Industrial Age, where there are still a few lands open in the south and north. And they lock down a quest giver for a side story.

So the question - Do I clean the whole continent in order to free my quest-er? Or should I leave it till the next Event? If I clean it all, I will get the quest giver back on side quests (and most importantly the 2nd repeating quest-er), but I will lose most of my free lands for future events.

Whats the better choice?
 

DeletedUser23444

CR - I had already a city here in FoE, when I read your article. For the last month I tried to fix multiple issues in order to align to the written above, but now I have one big issue that I am not sure what to do.

In the Continent map, I have passed the Industrial Age, where there are still a few lands open in the south and north. And they lock down a quest giver for a side story.

So the question - Do I clean the whole continent in order to free my quest-er? Or should I leave it till the next Event? If I clean it all, I will get the quest giver back on side quests (and most importantly the 2nd repeating quest-er), but I will lose most of my free lands for future events.

Whats the better choice?

If you have the Bonus Quest Line open that corresponds to the Bonus Areas on the Ind map (Canada above and Mexico below), then you must conquer all of both of these bonus areas in order to revert the Bonus Quest Giver Slot back into a Recurring Quest Giver Slot. However, you do not need to conquer all of the main part of the Ind map (the United States).

This is why I constantly stress, always skip what can be skipped!

I'm all the way up in FE and I still have an unconquered province all the way down in Ind and I even have 2 techs I have not yet unlocked all the way back in LMA (the two goods techs that branch off by themselves).
 

DeletedUser23444

I'm assuming that's FE productions and not any? Like if you had 5 Blacksmiths in you FE city that wouldn't work or would it?

As I said read my guide where I discuss in great detail each type of recurring quest.

I'm guessing that's a no then since you have recommended buildings for each era. It's leads one to think the way that's written "Produce 5 x <24-hour production>" you can produce any 24h production but that would be rather a bit too powerful I would think. What's the actual wording of these recurring quests? I'm assuming they mean produce 5 24 hour productions of your current age.

Okay, This is now an official FoE WTH? Moment

In the Oceanic Future (Era), or OFE, This specific recurring quest is actually worded: "Produce 6 24-hour productions"; and in fact, it can actually be completed using Bronze Age Blacksmiths, which one of my guild mates just confirmed for me in the past 48 hours. This means that we would never need to construct any conventional goods production buildings in OFE, since we could just fill our city with a field full of quest-multiples of 6 Blacksmiths per each multiple, and then spam the hell out of this "Produce Supplies" quest in order to produce OFE goods, at a vastly discounted rate:
  • close-to-0 population cost, since Blacksmiths cost such tiny amounts of pop
  • close-to-0 happiness cost, since Blacksmiths cost such tiny amounts of pop.
  • 0 coins or supplies cost
  • 0 unrefined goods cost
  • An incredibly lower land cost, since we don't even need to use regular supply production buildings from OE, we can use the tinyest ones in the game, the 2x2 Blacksmith.

This is completely broken, IMBA, or whatever other adjective you want to use. I believe it confirms that the Game Designers at Inno Games have absolutely no clue how players actually play this game in a practical manner, nor can they design new additions to the game while still keeping the game well-balanced.

Also take note that this should also mean that 24-hour productions from Special or Premium supply production buildings, as well as 24-hour productions from Multi-production buildings (Bazaar, Terrace Farm, and others) should also satisfy this same quest in OFE.

WARNING: I would expect this to get nerfed at some point, perhaps when other portions of the OE tech tree have been added to the game. So make use of it now if you are in OE, while you can.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top