Emberguard
Well-Known Member
No.Question: Is the cost of a siege camp proportional to the size of the Guild?
Guild Battlegrounds - Forge of Empires - Wiki EN
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No.Question: Is the cost of a siege camp proportional to the size of the Guild?
About limiting rewards from a tile. If that were implemented then automatically small Guilds cannot ever win much. Because clearly small groups have to do a lot more per tile to win a tile.
This was a game for the pennant or for show (similar to alumni vs active player games)? If the game was not for the pennant, then it is not equivalent to what we are speaking about here.There used to be MLB-AAA matchups. The MLB team would pay an annual; visit to their AAA farm team and this would be a nice attendance boost for the AAA team. The Portland Beavers were the farm club of the Minnesota Twins. It was pretty cool to get a taste of MLB in the Rose City!
If you get rid of one, the other should go as well.A few things can be done to make things more balanced.
1. Remove Seige Camps/Traps - Seige Camps highly skew the balance. If a guild is more powerful more than with the help of camps their strength is compunded many times more.Without it even the big hitters have to stop at some point.
A Space Carrier or Himeji Castle -like building within GBG? Interesting.Moreover as suggested there can be a feature where goods can be used to keep the reward % propped up. Just cull out the seige camps.
As long as the traps and decoys go to the trash with the watch towers and siege camps. Reducing the maximum number of buildings in any sector to 1 would also help in this situation.Just cull out the seige camps.
Swaps are not, directly, the issue. They do not whollyimpact the ability of a weaker guild to participate. I would say,on the contrary, they would at least help the weaker guild get something from GBG without a high guild or player expense. But the mechanism by which the swap is setup and permitted by the stronger guild for the benefit of the weaker guild also limits the ability of the weaker guild to compete on the leaderboard. This is an impact of the alliance that was formed (problem #1) and the poor match up that has such placed a guild with a distinct competitive disadvantage on the map with the stronger guild(s) (problem #2).2. Limit the number of rewards a person can get from a tile. After all can one mine diamonds/gold/metals to an unlimited level from a piece of land? Obviously it has to be at a person level not at a guild level so that smaller players in a guild are not disadvantaged.
This will reduce swaps as there will not be too much benefit in maintaining the swap and they will need to move to other territories while ignoring the emptied ones. There is a drawback to the above but also a solution. How to burn the goods for inno and how to keep top players interested to continue to hit? A feauture where through goods they can increase the % back up once it reaches below a certain level. This way they will continue to burn goods, get rewards for fighting and have some control on overwhelming the others through attrition. Sure there can be improvements but this is atleast a more nuanced and balanced way than the lazy game mechanics that is present now.
This was a game for the pennant or for show (similar to alumni vs active player games)? If the game was not for the pennant, then it is not equivalent to what we are speaking about here.
Diplomacy = Alliances = The root of the other problem
How would motivate a high school football team to compete to win against a professional (paid pro-athlete) team?
With that said the two questions at the top of the list are:
1. How to stop the alliances from forming in GBG to make it a true open battle ground.
2. How to better define the leagues or the members of the leagues, including the mechanism of promotion and demotion between the leagues.
Those two statements are unrelated.Thinking your Guildies are the equivalent of high school students explains the morale problem in your Guild.
This is where your perspective on the situation is completely wrong. Your responses have been and are focused on one player. If you are in a guild of one and can be competitive in diamond 1 then I commend you. Chances are not. There is only the select few players that can compete in diamond 1 by themselves. Not in any world I play do any of the diamond 1 guilds have less than 30 members. The FACT is that it takes a guild to compete in GBG. The strength of the guild and the relative strength of the guild to the others on the map in the season determine the potential of where a guild can land on the leaderboard at the close of the season.1 out of 3 million people play professional football. 1 in 15 high school students play football. Any FoE player who puts in a reasonable amount of both effort to learn the game and time playing can successfully compete at the highest level of GBG in 18 months give or take 6 months.
Thank you for agreeing that we should be in platinum and not advancing to diamond league. But since the league and points system says we MUST advance we are in diamond. By association you have agreed their is an issue with the points system, advancement system, and/or league separation (I don't mean all three or only one, but a combination and parts of each).Wrong. The question you should be asking yourself is:
How do I maximize my Guild and my personal enjoyment and benefit from GBG?
Given your opinion of your Guild, the answer for your Guild is obvious. Stay in Platinum.
I disagree completely. The leadership of the guild has little to no effect on the overall strength of the guild. I say little to no effect, as the leadership is responsible for providing efficient modes and mechanisms to allow the individual member to grow. But it is the overall combined strength of the guild that matters in GBG. Not that of one player, a handfull of players, or only the guild leadership.Until you understand the following, no matter how GBG is changed your Guild will always be second (I'm not the one comparing your Guild to high school kids) rate:
Your Guild Leadership is solely at fault for your Guild not being able to compete at the highest level of any aspect of this game.
I think you are getting closer to better defining the situation in GBG vs an IRL example. Try this out.Not quite since in fact we're all unpaid volunteer teams. A better analogy would be nonprofessional sports in which players join leagues. Some of them are well balanced and some are big mismatches. That is why they formed competitive leagues in some places.
I do not care about winning, I have mentioned that previously. I am here based on the title of the thread "When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?" I am here to discuss the fact that based on the current league, points, and advancement system makes for unbalanced matchups in a a season, pitting a winning weak guild against a number of much stronger guilds. The result is a "whupping" of the weaker guild. Not only is the weaker guild not competitive by being outclassed but is also not competitive because the stronger guilds ally and bully the weaker guild during the season.I get the distinct impression you want the top spot but don't want to do what it would take to make your guild competitive with the guilds that are willing to do what it takes to do well.
What would you do, @Algona, to be competitive during this season?
FactAny FoE player who puts in a reasonable amount of both effort to learn the game and time playing can successfully compete at the highest level of GBG in 18 months give or take 6 months.
Also fact.Your Guild Leadership is solely at fault for your Guild not being able to compete at the highest level of any aspect of this game.
Since you avoided and/or did not answer the question, you agree there is nothing you can do this season to be competitive. Furthermore, you point to me, but I'm not the only one in this same situation.You got a Guild you think can't compete. If I had a Guild I think could not compete in Diamonds I'd ...
I spent 2+ years as the day to day manager of a Guild that went from lvl 10 to top 50 pre GBG. I spent 2o16 in ProgE making sure every player who wanted one (35 that year) had a Traz. I spent the first 3 months after GE was released making sure that every player in my Guild had a lvl 5 Obs so we would have a healthy Treasury. I designed a program to acquire and level Arcs for 50 Guildies. I then turned the job of day to day manager over to someone who is much better at it then I am.
I'm also the guy who spent a ridiculous amount of time here learning (not wasting time trying to change the game!) and built another city to experiment, and taught so many players the mechanics, techniques, and philosophy of how to excel as a Guild and as individual players..
That Guild has never had morale problems, has consistently done well in GE and GBG, and has no requirements for either. Our players excel because they want to excel.
When we first got into GvG we started in IA and EMA. When we first got into GEC we strove for 50%, when we got into GBG we started in Gold and worked our way up.
The next time INNO adds to the game we'll analyze it, figure out how to do well at it, and retool our Guild to get there.
You can bet I wont be here asking INNO to change the game to suit my Guild. We won;t need the game to change to do well.
We've always believed that we can do well in anything once we learn how and develope our capability.
That's been true of every successful Guild I've seen.
I'm also the guy who spent 6 months traveling from Guild to Guild learning how different Guilds manage their affairs. And I run three cities all in successful GBG Guilds all with different techniques for doing so.
...do what I've done before Teach players, help them develope their cities, and give them every opportunity to excel.
Until then I'd manage their expectations and assure incremental success in what they do and as they grow.
And stay in the League that best suits my Guilds needs and expectations.
A single player guild cannot be competitive in GBG diamond league. Therefore no single player (as stated) can successfully compete in GBG diamond league. It takes a guild. That is the fact.FactAlgona said:Any FoE player who puts in a reasonable amount of both effort to learn the game and time playing can successfully compete at the highest level of GBG in 18 months give or take 6 months
In any given season, guild leadership has nothing to with the competitive ability of the guild. Long term it does.Also fact.Algona said:Your Guild Leadership is solely at fault for your Guild not being able to compete at the highest level of any aspect of this game.
As this thread relates to the selection of guilds for a season of GBG, if you cannot differentiate between the effects and ability of player versus a guild then there is nothing productive to be added to this conversation.The leadership of the guild has little to no effect on the overall strength of the guild. I say little to no effect, as the leadership is responsible for providing efficient modes and mechanisms to allow the individual member to grow. But it is the overall combined strength of the guild that matters in GBG. Not that of one player, a handfull of players, or only the guild leadership.
In other words....throw the game.And stay in the League that best suits my Guilds needs and expectations.
That's not what's being discussed. Being a top competitor in a top guild is what is being discussed. And yes, any player " who puts in a reasonable amount of both effort to learn the game and time playing can successfully compete at the highest level of GBG in 18 months give or take 6 months." And any player who;s done this will be ready and welcomed into any of the top guilds.A single player guild cannot be competitive in GBG diamond league. Therefore no single player (as stated) can successfully compete in GBG diamond league. It takes a guild. That is the fact.
And with this, you're quoting and now arguing with yourself. So you're right. "There is nothing productive to be added to this conversation."As this thread relates to the selection of guilds for a season of GBG, if you cannot differentiate between the effects and ability of player versus a guild then there is nothing productive to be added to this conversation.
I'll let @Algona clarify for himself, but what I suggest is that you accept you're a Platinum League guild that will occasionally be promoted to Diamond League where you'll be reminded why you're really a Platinum League guild.Algona, are you really suggesting that aiming to come in 3'rd or 4'th is a good strategy, even when 1'st or 2'nd are doable? How else do you "stay in the League that best suits my Guilds needs"?
That is exactly what the guilds must do in order to maintain a spot in the league rankings where they are competitive. Again because to win means to advance, not because the guild has gotten stronger.In other words....throw the game.
Go Team GO! Let's strive to come in 4'th! GO! GO! GO!
Wait...slow down team or we'll be #1 or #2. Nobody wants to be #2!!! That would stink!
Algona, are you really suggesting that aiming to come in 3'rd or 4'th is a good strategy, even when 1'st or 2'nd are doable? How else do you "stay in the League that best suits my Guilds needs"?
FOE is a strategy game, but when a good strategy is to avoid coming in 1'st or 2'nd, doesn't that suggest that maybe the problem is with the game, not the guilds and players that are figuring out that avoiding winning is a good strategy?
Why should a guild be promoted when they are not able to compete? Why do we have to be reminded? Why do we have to sit around and wait 13 days for the season to end so we can compete?I'll let @Algona clarify for himself, but what I suggest is that you accept you're a Platinum League guild that will occasionally be promoted to Diamond League where you'll be reminded why you're really a Platinum League guild.
Grab the extra rewards Diamond League has to offer while you're there and accept your fate. Instead of trying to change GBG to meet your expectations,
There are two options in GBG realities.why don't you change your expectations to align with the realities of GBG?
Oh, I accepted that a long time ago. I'm not actually complaining here. I'm more laughing at a game design that encourages people to try not to win. (Other than the very top tier players, of course).I'll let @Algona clarify for himself, but what I suggest is that you accept you're a Platinum League guild that will occasionally be promoted to Diamond League where you'll be reminded why you're really a Platinum League guild.
League System
To ensure that there’s no substantial difference between the participating guilds on each Battleground map, we will have a League System made up of five distinct league categories: Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum and Diamond.
I would argue from personal observation, the problem exists at the border of all leagues. I would say the problem at the platinum-diamond border is the one most spoken of for two reasons. First, because the players are 'senior' enough to voice and able to voice the problem. Second, those same 'senior' players understand the additional game mechanics to see how the alliances (in no way prevented or frowned upon by Inno at this time) effect their [not-ready-for diamond] guild when they are promoted [prematurely] to diamond league.Who wants to stand up and argue that INNO has achieved that goal? That there are no substantial differences between participating guilds?
I would argue that they probably have, except for Diamond league. There they failed.