Freshmeboy
Well-Known Member
Lately, if the prize is medals or boost potions, supplies, coin or units, I just forget the DC for the day and do something constructive ....like paperwork...
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DeletedUser29623
I would be so much better with this if we could win cider farms—the basic unupgraded kind—in DCs. I would rather have a bunch of those than all the blacksmiths, and it wouldn’t screw over the friends who motivate it by giving primitive BPs and goods.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
You can't win blacksmiths.
DeletedUser29623
That’s not relevant. It would be great to win basic cider mills and gradually replace blacksmiths with them, just as many players eventually replace houses and other coin-producing buildings with SoKs.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
If it isn't relevant why bring it up?
There are plenty of oher buildings you can place blacksmiths with b.t.w. but they are all bigger.
DeletedUser29623
It’s not relevant to point out that we can’t win blacksmiths. And I’m not the person who brought it up!
If you’re not familiar with the basic cider mill, while it is bigger than a blacksmith, it produces a LOT of supplies per tile. I use mine for these DC requests and it feels like less of a waste of space than the 6 blacksmiths I have for that purpose because the supplies I get from the mills are significant
Ta 152H
Active Member
I never need supplies from supply buildings, so it's frustrating to me that Inno made the game where supply buildings aren't necessary for supplies, but they are for silly quests.
So, bigger buildings aren't really useful for SOME of us. If it gave 30x the supplies of BS, I'd still keep the BS.
Which brings up the bigger problem where we need something useful to do with excess supplies. I keep hoping Inno will resolve this, but they seem unable to so far.
DeletedUser29623
Why not use them to buy Fps, goods and medals by doing Unbirthday quests? There really is not such thing as excess supplies once you do. Obviously, not everything works for everyone, but many players like the cider mill, or for that matter, certain other special event buildings. It's a bit weird that only the Indian Palace/Fountain sets, the Cherry set, the Maypole and a few random summer buildings are offered in DCs.
Ta 152H
Active Member
Well, I do use them in unbirthday quests, but that's a weak correlation, and I'd prefer a more direct use. When the primary use of a "basic" unit in the game is an obscure quests where you get a random reward, instead of a more primary use, it points to a flaw in the game design.
I'd also like to see them make medals more useful. They have a little bit, with GE and the AA map, but it still gets to the point eventually where they are of limited utility.
I personally don't think adding the cider mill would hurt balance at all in DC. Certainly it's not as powerful as the CBS. Or even SoKs, which are not only offered as a daily reward, but also weekly. I just wouldn't use it, but I don't think it's in any way problematic to add it, with other buildings of that type.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
Move on in the game and they will become totally useless and you will prefer blacksmiths, simply because you can place more to take care of these annoying quests.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
With basic cider mills??
DeletedUser29623
Yes. In CA, they produce 10x the number of supplies as blacksmiths while using only twice as much space. If you do a lot of recurring quests boosted by the Chateau (if you aren’t familiar with this, check out the Guides section of the forums), and particularly if you spam a lot of Unbirthday quests, this makes them well worth it, and worth using a one-up kit on when you move up an age. It’s different for everyone, but for me, it is the amount of supplies I have that limits my ability to spam Unbirthday quests. And that’s not even considering the “Collect X supplies” quests. If I’m going to be doing a lot of production quests, I’d prefer to get a good amount of supplies from them in addition to using them to complete DCs and other quests.
Salsuero
Well-Known Member
If the original Cider Mill is only 2x3 and the Blacksmith is 2x2, then isn't it only 50% larger? Put another way, if it were twice as big, you'd only be able to replace 4 Blacksmiths with 2 Cider Mills, but you can replace just 3 Blacksmiths with 2 Cider Mills. That makes your point even stronger than your math indicates.
Ta 152H
Active Member
There is one point you're leaving out though, which favors the Blacksmith in a way.
Unless you've got an unlimited amount of store buildings, or cider mills, you can't as easily remove them and place them. A BS you can easily remove and place again if needed for a quest, with the mitigating factor that what you remove to place it could be somewhat problematic.
I often have only two or four blacksmiths in my city, but if there's one of those awful quests where I need more, I will place more and get it done.
Is it worth extra supplies for the space? Not for me, since I'm so short on space, and I get far better use of the space than rewards would give me, but clearly a lot depends on what is occupying the space you have. If it's relatively prosaic stuff, the quests probably are worth the space. When you're at the point where you're at the point of removing SSWs, those extra spots matter more.
I certainly don't see a downside for putting in a proposal for that as an additional reward. While it's useful, it's not particularly powerful when measured against other items that are available, so I'd certainly vote yes.
DeletedUser29623
Or just the full range of special buildings, really. So far, the Maypole is the only upgradable one you can win. Maybe they think cider mills or pillars and their upgrades are too OP? A lot of us have leftover upgrades lying around. Although I just won a Majaraja’s Palace from a DC, so maybe not.
DeletedUser29623
You're absolutely right. I wasn't really thinking when I posted that. You can't actually replace 3 with 2, though
Ta 152H
Active Member
Yeah, I think Pillar is OP, but I think Cider Mill is very reasonable. Or other stuff similar to that. I think it's more neglect rather than a conscious effort to exclude CMs.
Even if you look at the Bountiful Cider Mill, and assume they offered upgrades, it's still clearly inferior to the Pillar. It's 67% bigger, uses population, and does ONE thing at a time, whereas the Pillar is a tiny 3x3, and gives multiple bonuses. Or even the bridge, which is still only 80% of the size of the Cider Mill, and also gives even more per day than the Pillar.
When you consider CBS particularly is already there, I don't think Cider Mills are disproportionate. The only caveat is, they may not want to water them down for events. You could say they did so with CBS, but then you have to consider they gave upgrades mainly, so only the base units were available via DC. But, if you then advocate only the basic cider mill is available, and not the upgrades, you could preserve those for the special event and handle it in a similar way.
Salsuero
Well-Known Member
I most certainly can't, but only because I don't have 2 Cider Mills sitting in my inventory. If I did, I could indeed replace 3 Blacksmiths with them.
DeletedUser31882
Apologies if this has already been said but I fell victim to it recently and I'll risk the whip.
PSA: You cannot rearrange your Daily timer and 'extend' your time for completing your DC. With a data set of 1.5, I have determined that the DC task will expire under the 'old' timer and then you must wait until the new timer starts to receive the new daily chest choice.
I lost out on a chance at the Cherry Blossom set chest due to the assumption that moving the timer forward would give me extra time to complete it. Much sadness.
Oh well. It was a secondary world, but knowledge is power!
PSA: You cannot rearrange your Daily timer and 'extend' your time for completing your DC. With a data set of 1.5, I have determined that the DC task will expire under the 'old' timer and then you must wait until the new timer starts to receive the new daily chest choice.
I lost out on a chance at the Cherry Blossom set chest due to the assumption that moving the timer forward would give me extra time to complete it. Much sadness.
Oh well. It was a secondary world, but knowledge is power!
DeletedUser26965
So I was contemplating all the complaints regarding DC, it strikes me odd the complaints regarding production tasks, especially as it's not even considered by those what that space for blacksmiths is in exchange for. The space you're using is for the stuff you get out of DC's. So the question becomes is that space you're giving up for blacksmiths for DC stuff worth it? Well, only you can answer that really because wants are subjective.
I haven't yet taken the time to get an estimate of all the stuff one could get if they did DC everyday for a year and completed every one of them. I do have now however an idea of what the percent chance average is over the long run for all the chests here at this link My First Attempt at Daily Challenge. Now that we have that it's merely a matter of math to figure out all the rewards you would get on average over the long run.
An example. If I did the math right and you completed DC every day I think that would come out to 11fp a day average over the long term. You could get more of course or less but just by doing DC it's like having 11 SoK's sitting there though some days they'll give more, some days less. So the question is, is 11fp a day worth the space blacksmiths are taking up and the time to run x amount of productions on them? Again up to you. But then that's just the fp's and not all the other stuff you'll get over that same time.
I haven't yet taken the time to get an estimate of all the stuff one could get if they did DC everyday for a year and completed every one of them. I do have now however an idea of what the percent chance average is over the long run for all the chests here at this link My First Attempt at Daily Challenge. Now that we have that it's merely a matter of math to figure out all the rewards you would get on average over the long run.
An example. If I did the math right and you completed DC every day I think that would come out to 11fp a day average over the long term. You could get more of course or less but just by doing DC it's like having 11 SoK's sitting there though some days they'll give more, some days less. So the question is, is 11fp a day worth the space blacksmiths are taking up and the time to run x amount of productions on them? Again up to you. But then that's just the fp's and not all the other stuff you'll get over that same time.