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DeletedUser26965
It was harder to click TH at a certain time than doing DC's? Odd. So you don't think it's a challenge dealing with the annoyance? Because by the voluminous negative comments both here and on Beta apparently for many it is. What daily "challenge(s)" would you propose instead?
DeletedUser30900
keep that negative attitude and complain about everything
i think he is doing a good job on that
Agent327
Well-Known Member
Anything that isn't the same as what we are doing every day all day. We have events, we have historical questlines and we have daily challenges that are nothing more than daily events. It's all the same. At least TH was something different.
In the storyline you have quests where you have to increase your population with an exact amount. THAT is a challenge. This is just going through the motions.
DeletedUser26965
Well, when I think of "challenge" as it pertains to this game in its current state I think of the challenge to manage a city/guild with all the variables thrown in that even the most monotonous of quests/tasks provide. As the game grows in content, more and more of a challenge overall is set upon players to decide how to work it all out then add on top of that GvG, GE, PvP, Guilding etc. Hence why all so many complaints about such things regarding events, tasks etc. because really the ultimate reasoning behind it is said management or mismanagement. I don't take "Daily Challenge" so much literally in that every task itself must be a herculean challenge, not like how GE4 was set out, at least in theory at first, to be actually difficult, rather I take DC and its tasks to simply add to the mix of the challenge overall.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
I agree. In my opinion they are trying to keep the game challenging for the veteran players, but those are the ones that by now have all good management. All quests you have to do are routine. You know what to expect. I don't even have to look up the quests for an event or questline. Even without preperation I will blast through them anyhow. They should try to come up with something new and unexpected.
DeletedUser26965
hey who woulda thunk it, we agree on something, but I suppose that's the eventual result of any game really, you get better as you play long enough there's really not much left to do, though I would say holding on to #1 in the guild ranking would be the last remaining challenge for this game but I would like to see GE rank alongside that as well on the board, so whoever has the highest percent of GE first places since that guild had GE would be listed.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
Thunk???
Holding on to #1 in your guild isn't really a challenge at all, considering how you get points. GE rank is something, but I get ranked lower, cause I don't loose any fights and there is also a difference with negotiating.
They should come up with more challenging quest where you have to hit the exact number in acquiring population, coins, supplies, goods, or defeat units. Then you would have tyo think. Winning fights without a loss is already something in that direction.
Holding on to #1 in your guild isn't really a challenge at all, considering how you get points. GE rank is something, but I get ranked lower, cause I don't loose any fights and there is also a difference with negotiating.
They should come up with more challenging quest where you have to hit the exact number in acquiring population, coins, supplies, goods, or defeat units. Then you would have tyo think. Winning fights without a loss is already something in that direction.
Ta 152H
Active Member
I think you guys might be giving a very kind interpretation of what's going on with DC, and also GE Level 4 and similar things like incidences (I'll provide the context for that similarity). Naturally, your perspective is a player's, but we didn't make either, so it's instructive to view it from the people that made it.
Inno is out to make money, pure and simple. It's a business, and that's the primary goal, obviously. It's not to say it's always bad for us, because they need to make the game enjoyable, or it make them money.
Inno wants two things. The first is both obvious and direct, they want you to buy diamonds. I don't think I need to explain why, it's so clear. GE does generate some diamond revenue, for sure, particularly with negotiators. In some instances, so will the DCs, although I expect that's probably quite minor.
In the earnings call, the CEO mentioned that the vast majority of people don't buy diamonds, and that they are still very helpful for the game, because they create an environment where the spenders do. Imagine a server with just paying customers, and you can quickly see how it would die, and the paying customers would cease playing, or certainly, pay as much to play the game. They need people online to flesh out the server, even if they don't directly provide a revenue stream.
People creating an account and being online for three minutes a day won't help that much. Having accounts isn't enough, it's also about how long are people on. The more, the more money they will make.
So, Inno has shifted focus somewhat, to reward being online. The TH took only a click. GvG is rewarding for the guild, but only indirectly rewarding for the individual player, while incurring significant costs. Certainly, someone could skip GvG and not be severely disadvantaged vis-a-vis those who did. It's no surprise only a subset of players did this. Even with that, it degenerated into a slugfest at reset time in many cases, and then people would log off.
Instead, now they put in incidences that require logging in, and also finding them. Then there is GE, which offers very significant personal rewards, and thus encourages players spend the time to solve encounters. Completely L4 GE often requires a considerable amount of time. But, again, at least the rewards justify it for many. And now we have the Daily Chores, which admittedly boring, generally add more time one needs to be online to complete.
So, I think this is why we have them. Sure, Inno would like to make them more fun if they had the imagination to do so, but them being fun is not their primary focus. They put really nice rewards out there, or at least the possibility of getting them, so they justify the time/effort to go after them. It's obtuse and uninspired, but I admit I still do it even with that.
I certainly agree they should change what is required. I'd like to see a game within a game, like chess, or even a contest between several players online. For example (and I realize Monopoly is owned by another company and would take too long, but just take it was a very loose example), you could have a game like Monopoly, and you'd have to win that to do that day's challenge. And you'd have say three other players taken at random to play against. Or even simpler games like hearts or spades, or anywhere in between or outside of those boundaries. Or even a game patterned after in game mechanics, where you'd have to conquer a map while competing with other players, with rules very loosely based on existing FoE ones, but made to fit the mini-game.
There's a lot they can do to make it better, but let's not forget their primary purpose, which it already is serving at least to some extent.
DeletedUser26965
okay, getting to #1 and holding it, I realize a guild once settled into #1 can maintain, that's the ultimate challenge as there's only 1 spot and thousands of guilds. If you can't achieve that then I say you aren't really playing the game.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
Ta 152H
Active Member
You make the jump that because something isn't perfect, it's not intentional. We both know Inno is FAR from perfect.
You are not the only player, obviously, so Inno has to tailor the game for the masses, and use a one size fits all type approach. But, if you're finishing GE by Thursday, and doing all levels, clearly they're successful in getting you to spend time doing it, and thus being online. Don't make the mistake of measuring something against perfection, or you'll get the wrong impression. Just measure it against what was before, and you'll see they do get people to stay online longer than before. Of course, some people were always on anyway, but we're talking overall, not a one-person sample set.
But, to answer your question directly, I believe Inno realized they went too far in making GE attractive early on, and then back-tracked a bit, and offered non-rewards like extra attempts. So, in this case, it was a reaction to making it too powerful, and was a way to retain game balance. That's my take on it, anyway, but what do I really know? It's just a guess.
Why you can't see incidents in your city is clearly an unintended situation, and not the norm. Their programmers suck (like I'm telling you something you don't know), but obviously their intention at this point is that everyone has incidents in their city.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
It is. Extra attempts have been there from the start.
It is the norm when you deactivate animations. They should have thought of that.
Ta 152H
Active Member
I don't think extra attempts were available from the very beginning. Can someone verify one way or another?
You're wrong about deactivated animations and incidents, because I never have animations on, yet I see incidents. There's something wrong with your particular situation, and you can probably correct it. Try a different browser if you haven't already (I use Opera), assuming you see incidents with your animations on . If not, contact support, because I definitely see incidents, and I can't stand having animations on.
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Agent327
Well-Known Member
I can see them with animations off, but not in my city. I can hardly see the roads and nothing will change that.
DeletedUser26965
I can, unless of course you think I made this up: Guild Expedition- New Rewards, so, no, they were not.
Agent327
Well-Known Member
You forget something.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-expedition-4th-difficulty.16552/
They have been there since the start of GE lvl 4.
GE lvl4 is what he mentions in his argument. Not just GE!
DeletedUser26965
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Okay they were at the beginning of GE4, not sure how that pertains to your position that extra attempts are antithetical to the goal of player retainment/return.
Ta 152H
Active Member
You're wrong, I was talking about GE, not just GE L4. Funny how he understood the context, and you didn't.
Also, nowhere in the post did I mention GE L4, I only mentioned GE. Don't start dissembling, it's not attractive. No one is always right, that we have no choice over. How you handle it when you're not, is something you do.
Ta 152H
Active Member
It's not, he just doesn't want to admit he was wrong. If you look at the post he responded to, there is no mention of GE L4, just GE in general. You'll also notice he didn't mention from the start of GE L4, just from the start.
It's not even a good attempt on his part.