Salsuero
Well-Known Member
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LOL -- if only it were that simple. hahahaha
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And there's nothing wrong with any of that. If you get booted from a guild, join or start another. You'll be fine. If you lose friends... add more. If you don't want those things to happen... don't use your Arc in a way that would cause those things. It doesn't bother me that the Arc is being used as intended... and why shouldn't someone try to profit? Everyone without an Arc is trying to do the same thing!
I do have Arc players help me just to help me... they will sometimes overpay for something just because they are bored and wanna dump forge points. Not everyone is like that, but people seem to like to lump everyone into one or two categories. I have a player who gives me the full 90% donation for my 3rd place as a breakeven every level... no profit. He does so because he says he likes that I've "been cool to him". So I pay enough to get it to where the 3rd place is at breakeven for a 90% Arc, and he donates. That results in a snipe over anyone with lower investments. So? It's my Arc. I set the rules. I appreciate his 90% bonus being in the game because he doesn't just do that on the Arc, but on other GBs that I ask him to. As a result, I notify him of opportunities where he could use his Arc to profit... self-levelers mostly... folks that we share as mutual friends. This has fostered a type of social cooperation that I probably wouldn't have bothered with without the support of his Arc given that we aren't in the same guild. It just wouldn't have really been a thought to work with him in this way if he didn't have a strong means to help me, which makes me wanna help him back.
If there are neighbors or other folks on my GBs, it's not my job to make it rewarding for them. That is their job. Sure, I try to give opportunities to my guildmates when I can, but my goal is to level my GBs at a minimal cost to me. Does that make me selfish? I'm trying to build an empire. These are the ways I choose to go about it. Now, I don't put my GBs in the swap threads to avoid that whole mess... and if I do, I try not to play the same way and at least attempt to make it possible for the swappers to get rewarded... but in my opinion, swap threads aren't a guarantee of anything other than a return investment of the same amount. If you self-donate, you have the same result... EXCEPT... the swap threads offer AN OPPORTUNITY for a reward.
Anyways, like I said... nothing wrong with anything you said there.
You basically only responded to the part of my post that wasn't my main point
It's the ones who only put in half the level cost on a level 50 Arc as soon as it levels (as an example, there are many more than this though), locking out anyone else who may have been willing to put in their maximum Arc bonus in order to save the owner potentially hundreds of FPs that they now have to obtain in some other way.
Really? That's an opinion. Here's another adjective: savvy.greedy
And no, that's not being helpful 'because it's still free FP for the owner' because the status quo, in my opinion, is that there are players like me who would be giving 90% on those spots if the greedy players weren't locking us out of them.
In short, and to reiterate, I think the Arc's a good idea, but when placed alongside everything else in the game I see it providing way too much of that good idea and it's having a negative effect on the game as a result.
Its not an argument...more of a comparison.Your argument
Good or bad is simply a matter of ones opinion. It is however..reality.And that's a good thing?
Except that some had a head start of years on others.
But you said "essentially" and "my big problem" -- so I'm confused by that statement.
I will respond directly to that point: the game allows you to donate to any GB you have access to and it allows you to donate any amount toward a reward that you desire. If you beat someone to a reward fair and square, that is certainly unfortunate for the owner, but then the owner can also choose not to unlock levels until an agreed upon time with said swap partner(s). So it's really something that can be remedied with some forethought and planning. Therefore, I respectfully disagree with your criticism.
Really? That's an opinion. Here's another adjective: savvy.
Well, I have a mid-range Arc and I only have to self-donate about 175-225 on average to level it. So... doesn't really seem like much of an issue if you think about it, really. But ok... your sad about that. Well, this game isn't about altruism. It's a beat me or I beat you game for the most part with elements of cooperation. You don't get one without the other.
I disagree... respectfully so.
Oh men. You Start an impossible quest here. Fairness in a game where players have played for years and some only weeks. Not possible ata lol. Hey, I want all long term players stop playing now. Immediately. It is not fair they started earlier. And yes, all the soks they amassed in events where they were easier to get. Give them back. All of it. Now. Some didnT get a full palace set. Unfair. All palaces, back.A concern for equity is not to "whine" or to be irrational. Equity is actually one of the highest virtues of modern civilization. Capitalism tramples on that virtue every day, but the power of an idea is still greater than the power of money. Love surpasses greed.
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Question for those who have been around for a long time: When Arc was introduced, was camping in an Era and FP for good swaps very common? I wonder how much INNO did in fact foresee.
And for those who comment like Sal about all the "hard work" they put in to get an Arc up and running, what a joke. I've been playing for a couple months, still in Iron, and could easily be close to power leveling my Arc right now if I wanted. When someone sells you goods for a couple weeks' FREE FP bar accumulation, instead of years of researching and goods producing, yeah we have different definitions of working hard.
On my way...Economics 101.
For those that worry that your Arc will be nerfed, level it to higher level 80 lol.
lol to this:
Ok, well everyone is entitled to their opinion and you can all hate the Arc if you so desire. I don't and I will continue to level it and use it. No reason to keep commenting because I'm obviously not going to convince anyone of anything, nor they me. Enjoy the game, everyone. I absolutely do... Arc and all!
And for those who comment like Sal about all the "hard work" they put in to get an Arc up and running, what a joke. I've been playing for a couple months, still in Iron, and could easily be close to power leveling my Arc right now if I wanted. When someone sells you goods for a couple weeks' FREE FP bar accumulation, instead of years of researching and goods producing, yeah we have different definitions of working hard.
On my way...
But you said "essentially" and "my big problem" -- so I'm confused by that statement.
I will respond directly to that point: the game allows you to donate to any GB you have access to and it allows you to donate any amount toward a reward that you desire. If you beat someone to a reward fair and square, that is certainly unfortunate for the owner, but then the owner can also choose not to unlock levels until an agreed upon time with said swap partner(s). So it's really something that can be remedied with some forethought and planning. Therefore, I respectfully disagree with your criticism.
Really? That's an opinion. Here's another adjective: savvy.
Well, I have a mid-range Arc and I only have to self-donate about 175-225 on average to level it. So... doesn't really seem like much of an issue if you think about it, really. But ok... your sad about that. Well, this game isn't about altruism. It's a beat me or I beat you game for the most part with elements of cooperation. You don't get one without the other.
I disagree... respectfully so.
Not a year, Jan 2016 to Dec 2017 is a little shy of 2 years lol.I don't know LLQ...Arc at only level 131 after a year of play...? I think we may need someone with a little more gaming experience to settle this discussion once and for all...
The thing is, having to 'thwart' specific Arc players by keeping levels locked until specific points is, once again, a problem caused by the Arc and its effect.
This was not a problem that existed prior to the Arc
my aim is to try curbing underhanded behavior as much as possible and it's currently rampant with the Arc's design.
Anyway, you seem to be hung up on the impression that I want the Arc removed from the game completely. I don't. I want its effect lowered, and there's a substantial difference between the two.
It's just that you can't put the Arc next to a GB like the Seed Vault or even the Kraken (nevermind the other average or worse GBs) and tell me that, per level, the Arc is on equal footing with even the other 'good' GBs.
Before the Arc was introduced to the game, people generally picked one GB to 'stick with' and level up well beyond 10, and there was no clear consensus on which one was best. Some folks did CDM, some Alcatraz, some Chateau, some even picked the Cape. However, once the Arc started taking off EVERYONE switched over to that
and now there are more level 80+ Arcs than there are all other GBs COMBINED.
f that's not clear evidence to you that something's not balanced properly regarding the Arc, I'm really not sure how to make it any clearer.
Your comments (here and elsewhere) fail to address the key problem — as I clearly stated in the very first sentence of my original post:
It seems rather clear that the Arc has been a tool to increase the disparity of wealth in the game..
the Arc needs to be nerfed, not removed. You also specifically mention the one type of Arc owner who I specifically mention that I don't have a problem with to try to...counter...? what you quoted. Players like that aren't contributing with the problems the Arc causes when they do that. It's the ones who only put in half the level cost on a level 50 Arc as soon as it levels (as an example, there are many more than this though), locking out anyone else who may have been willing to put in their maximum Arc bonus in order to save the owner potentially hundreds of FPs that they now have to obtain in some other way. The difference between greedy players only looking to lock a spot and players like the one you and I mentioned who put in 90% on a spot totals up to over 3,000 FP going from level 30 to level 50 on an Arc...and that's only looking at the top two spots. That's more than 2000 FP that the #1 position is pocketing, at the expense of the owner and everyone else donating to that GB. And no, that's not being helpful 'because it's still free FP for the owner' because the status quo, in my opinion, is that there are players like me who would be giving 90% on those spots if the greedy players weren't locking us out of them. This is a problem that would be pretty thoroughly addressed by nerfing the Arc's effect. Sniping would still exist, which has always been a part of the game, but an Arc nerf would remove all instances of being able to lock in a spot on a freshly levelled GB and walking away with free FP to show for it.
In short, and to reiterate, I think the Arc's a good idea, but when placed alongside everything else in the game I see it providing way too much of that good idea and it's having a negative effect on the game as a result.