New changes to gbg at beta forum.

[Dursland]

Good for you that your guild is working to increase their goods.

Any guild that doesn't will be left behind in the dust. I think we've done like 100 obs levels this week collectively, thanks to our new programs.

 

[SabreHawk]

Everyone seems to be talking as if there is only one Diamond League battlefield going on in any one season. If there is a ranking system in place, as Inno has said, then it may just mean that the smaller guilds will play against smaller guilds and the larger ones against the larger ones.
Any thoughts on this?
And, where did anyone get the information that Inno has said that in order to get the L2 building that it will take 5 of 6 season wins instead of the stated three?

 

[PJS299]

Good luck with that the big guilds including mine are already doing programs to massively increase goods coming into the treasury and we don't really need the base building either. Like I said this will be slightly hard on the big guilds at first but the little guilds will suffer the most.

Tell us of these programs. We're gonna need them.

 

[Athanofthered]

Tell us of these programs. We're gonna need them.

Just offering big rewards to people who meet the requirements the quickest.

 

[Jennie2019]

I’ll start by saying I‘ve been playing since before GBG. It didn’t do anything to speak up before - I tried. But now the new changes will further penalize all leagues except for diamond. Think about it - the lower leagues have always paid the same cost for buildings but the rewards were greatly diminished. So more cost = fewer rewards. At diamond, you get 10 fps, 25 diamonds, 50 goods, etc. at platinum, you get 7 fps, 20 diamond, 40 goods, etc. The rewards significantly reduce each level you go down. But you still have to pay 3000 goods for a siege camp. And your siege camp doesn’t go as far - less advances means you have to build siege camps more often. Now we will have new building costs that most smaller guilds can’t afford. The answer from beta players is the little guilds need to build themselves up. How? The game is structured to keep them down in the lower levels. If copper league was getting 10 fps, etc. wouldn’t they be able to advance faster (assuming they want to get into the constant clicking of a high powered GBG)? Why isn’t there a relationship between how much it costs and how much you get?

 

[Dominator - X]

The answer from beta players is the little guilds need to build themselves up. How?

In a nutshell: You build your guild up by finding like-minded players who take GBG seriously and who are willing to put in the time and effort to grow a sustainable treasury. You build from there, by finding fighters who want to join a better, more active guild (your future, stronger guild) and you recruit them. You recruit them as individuals and or you merge with other guilds, by bringing their best fighters into your fold, while having requirements to Treasury Goods production. If you don't want to do the work, join a stronger guild, once you meet their requirements or are close enough and willing to prioritize getting there, quickly.
IMO and experience, this game has been around for too long, to just grow your guild from within. By the time your members are strong enough to compete with today's guilds, they will already be far behind the curve. Much as they are today. I have seen numerous attempts at this, only to watch them come to their collective senses and abandon their idealistic ways and eventually, when their base leaves, one-by-one, follow a similar pattern as I mentioned above.

Or, you can complain about how unfair life/FOE is and insist that someone else fix it for you.

Your choice... Choose well.

 

[xivarmy]

I’ll start by saying I‘ve been playing since before GBG. It didn’t do anything to speak up before - I tried. But now the new changes will further penalize all leagues except for diamond. Think about it - the lower leagues have always paid the same cost for buildings but the rewards were greatly diminished. So more cost = fewer rewards. At diamond, you get 10 fps, 25 diamonds, 50 goods, etc. at platinum, you get 7 fps, 20 diamond, 40 goods, etc. The rewards significantly reduce each level you go down. But you still have to pay 3000 goods for a siege camp. And your siege camp doesn’t go as far - less advances means you have to build siege camps more often. Now we will have new building costs that most smaller guilds can’t afford. The answer from beta players is the little guilds need to build themselves up. How? The game is structured to keep them down in the lower levels. If copper league was getting 10 fps, etc. wouldn’t they be able to advance faster (assuming they want to get into the constant clicking of a high powered GBG)? Why isn’t there a relationship between how much it costs and how much you get?

You do have some legitimate criticism here, but let me try to offer some consolation:

1) The rewards from GBG are going to be much less important over the next year. Not because of the GBG changes either (you'll still be able to farm there plenty if you care). But because the new event buildings have been off the hook crazy, and the more of them you get, the less it matters how much you farm in GBG. People who play events actively are going to have cities putting out 5k FP and 10k goods a day before too long just from collection. Without playing the stupid swapping clicker minigame bullshit that the player base has turned GBG into. This effectively frees you up to do as much or as little in GBG as you care to without worrying about falling hopelessly behind.

2) So circling back to GBG, lets say you still want to compete there on some level because you need it as a reason to continue developing your city (kinda my view on things). Let's also say your guild has no interest in becoming a big guild (I certainly have no interest in being in one). How has the situation changed for you? My impressions, based on where you are:

- Not so competitive - Low Platinum and down: No change from before. You don't need to build buildings yet at all! You need to build up your attrition ceiling and activity level. Despite needing less advances, sectors don't flip too fast because the average guild isn't that active - and requiring less advancements, you should be able to just take a sector a day for every 1-2 participating members you have *with no attrition reduction*. Somewhere around 1-2 sectors a day should keep you in low platinum, ready for the next step.

- Competitive in High Platinum: Here you start to need your treasury if your guild is small (if your guild is big, you still don't). But you don't need the new expensive HQ buildings yet really as the winner of a platinum round usually simply controls most of the map - noone else is close in the standings to need the VP boost, and you won't be back in HQ to need the attrition reduction next to it beyond the very first sector which you can just use attrition to power through instead. So you can stick to the "normal" buildings that are as cost-efficient as siege camps were. Apart from a rare round where there's two guilds seriously vying for first (and i do hope that's more frequent with the changes to diamond), it's pretty natural to build up your capabilities here still if you want to with both a stronger treasury and stronger individual attrition capabilities playing significant roles. Attrition capability will play a larger role now that you cannot make sectors "free" - and that's a good thing - it's better to send the guild with 10 fighters with moderate attrition capabilities to diamond than to send the guild with 1-3 active fighters using a strong treasury to take over the map with free fights.

- Outclassed in Diamond: In rounds where you're sewed into your HQ, you merely have to build the HQ building *once* and can fight to get out at reduced cost for the whole season. 75k goods is a lot for the best version, but it's not unreasonable for a guild of ~10 players to afford that with well developed treasury buildings. You might not be able to afford it every season *now*, but it's something you can work towards. Unlike before being outclassed in diamond is not really a reason to avoid diamond so you should try to get into this situation if you can - and just build your HQ building and do what you can. You are at least not fighting uphill against the stronger guilds who have full attrition reduction while you have none - but they are after all still stronger - so how much progress you can make is an open question, but at least you're being given the foundation to try. Which gives you a more natural transition to:

- Semi-competitive in Diamond: The difference between the previous group and this one in times past was pretty much entirely diplomatic. You're still not strong enough to really compete in the diamond groups, but stick around in diamond most rounds by sucking up to the guilds that control the map. The new difference is that since being HQed isn't as large a punishment, you may be able to more credibly fight for your right to stick around now once you get a little stronger rather than begging for it. Also the somewhat weaker guilds helping keep you sewed in may run out of attrition to do so and slow down over the day to give you a chance.

- Competitive in Diamond: The problems in lower groups often stem from the toxic behavior at the top. So while you may not be here yet, the changes to what goes on here are still likely to impact you. The biggest problem being "The Cooperative" which arose because most of the desired reward was just from getting fights, and anywhere in the top 4 was "fine" making room for large pat-a-cake cliques that lock out anyone who won't be part of them. One guild can put you back in your HQ, but they can't keep you there. A clique of guilds can keep you there. The guilds that wind up "beached" then start trying to avoid going back to diamond corrupting platinum where guilds stop trying to win and even weaker guilds who don't throw the round get sent up in their place. So what's changed : a) If you want the newest bestest GBG reward, you're going to have to take *1st* almost every round. Not just top 4. So if you're a guild that gets designated in the not-1st camp but feel you deserve it you have reason to fight the cooperative. And that's the guild that has the most ability to do so - not the hanger-on that just got promoted from platinum, but the would-be-2nd-place guild. b) Farming isn't endless. Most guilds are not going to be able to handle every 4 hour flips with increased fights per sector and 20% attrition minimum. So you don't need to coop to maximize fights - attrition should mostly limit fights. c) Every sector can have max attrition reduction - from the things next to HQ to the entire back row. So you don't need to coop from the perspective of keeping other guilds fighting capabilities maximized. They can hit at 80% reduction as long as they can afford the buildings.

If the diamond leagues are more fun to be in, then the platinum leagues should stop sandbagging and be more competitive trying to win which might trickle down as far as gold still having credible guilds to compete with (ok that might be a stretch, but we'll see!).

 

[Dominator - X]

You do have some legitimate criticism here, but let me try to offer some consolation:

1) The rewards from GBG are going to be much less important over the next year. Not because of the GBG changes either (you'll still be able to farm there plenty if you care). But because the new event buildings have been off the hook crazy, and the more of them you get, the less it matters how much you farm in GBG. People who play events actively are going to have cities putting out 5k FP and 10k goods a day before too long just from collection. Without playing the stupid swapping clicker minigame bullshit that the player base has turned GBG into. This effectively frees you up to do as much or as little in GBG as you care to without worrying about falling hopelessly behind.

2) So circling back to GBG, lets say you still want to compete there on some level because you need it as a reason to continue developing your city (kinda my view on things). Let's also say your guild has no interest in becoming a big guild (I certainly have no interest in being in one). How has the situation changed for you? My impressions, based on where you are:

- Not so competitive - Low Platinum and down: No change from before. You don't need to build buildings yet at all! You need to build up your attrition ceiling and activity level. Despite needing less advances, sectors don't flip too fast because the average guild isn't that active - and requiring less advancements, you should be able to just take a sector a day for every 1-2 participating members you have *with no attrition reduction*. Somewhere around 1-2 sectors a day should keep you in low platinum, ready for the next step.

- Competitive in High Platinum: Here you start to need your treasury if your guild is small (if your guild is big, you still don't). But you don't need the new expensive HQ buildings yet really as the winner of a platinum round usually simply controls most of the map - noone else is close in the standings to need the VP boost, and you won't be back in HQ to need the attrition reduction next to it beyond the very first sector which you can just use attrition to power through instead. So you can stick to the "normal" buildings that are as cost-efficient as siege camps were. Apart from a rare round where there's two guilds seriously vying for first (and i do hope that's more frequent with the changes to diamond), it's pretty natural to build up your capabilities here still if you want to with both a stronger treasury and stronger individual attrition capabilities playing significant roles. Attrition capability will play a larger role now that you cannot make sectors "free" - and that's a good thing - it's better to send the guild with 10 fighters with moderate attrition capabilities to diamond than to send the guild with 1-3 active fighters using a strong treasury to take over the map with free fights.

- Outclassed in Diamond: In rounds where you're sewed into your HQ, you merely have to build the HQ building *once* and can fight to get out at reduced cost for the whole season. 75k goods is a lot for the best version, but it's not unreasonable for a guild of ~10 players to afford that with well developed treasury buildings. You might not be able to afford it every season *now*, but it's something you can work towards. Unlike before being outclassed in diamond is not really a reason to avoid diamond so you should try to get into this situation if you can - and just build your HQ building and do what you can. You are at least not fighting uphill against the stronger guilds who have full attrition reduction while you have none - but they are after all still stronger - so how much progress you can make is an open question, but at least you're being given the foundation to try. Which gives you a more natural transition to:

- Semi-competitive in Diamond: The difference between the previous group and this one in times past was pretty much entirely diplomatic. You're still not strong enough to really compete in the diamond groups, but stick around in diamond most rounds by sucking up to the guilds that control the map. The new difference is that since being HQed isn't as large a punishment, you may be able to more credibly fight for your right to stick around now once you get a little stronger rather than begging for it. Also the somewhat weaker guilds helping keep you sewed in may run out of attrition to do so and slow down over the day to give you a chance.

- Competitive in Diamond: The problems in lower groups often stem from the toxic behavior at the top. So while you may not be here yet, the changes to what goes on here are still likely to impact you. The biggest problem being "The Cooperative" which arose because most of the desired reward was just from getting fights, and anywhere in the top 4 was "fine" making room for large pat-a-cake cliques that lock out anyone who won't be part of them. One guild can put you back in your HQ, but they can't keep you there. A clique of guilds can keep you there. The guilds that wind up "beached" then start trying to avoid going back to diamond corrupting platinum where guilds stop trying to win and even weaker guilds who don't throw the round get sent up in their place. So what's changed : a) If you want the newest bestest GBG reward, you're going to have to take *1st* almost every round. Not just top 4. So if you're a guild that gets designated in the not-1st camp but feel you deserve it you have reason to fight the cooperative. And that's the guild that has the most ability to do so - not the hanger-on that just got promoted from platinum, but the would-be-2nd-place guild. b) Farming isn't endless. Most guilds are not going to be able to handle every 4 hour flips with increased fights per sector and 20% attrition minimum. So you don't need to coop to maximize fights - attrition should mostly limit fights. c) Every sector can have max attrition reduction - from the things next to HQ to the entire back row. So you don't need to coop from the perspective of keeping other guilds fighting capabilities maximized. They can hit at 80% reduction as long as they can afford the buildings.

If the diamond leagues are more fun to be in, then the platinum leagues should stop sandbagging and be more competitive trying to win which might trickle down as far as gold still having credible guilds to compete with (ok that might be a stretch, but we'll see!).

Still enjoying the beach, I see. Don't forget those little umbrellas. It's all about the ambiance.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

5000 FP per day and 10K goods per day ? Hmmmm , you aren't playing the same game that I am. My city is on the upper end in my world and I make 5245 goods and approximately 1840 FP from collections and my city is jammed full so I swap out with better as they come up and all expansions are gone. What is the timeframe for 5000FP / day ? 3 years , 4 years ? , 6 years ?

 

[Emberguard]

I really don't see how any of this actually changes things if players want to farm, for one simple reason. None of it uses first-time capture only reward mechanics. It's all re-capture reward mechanics, which by its very nature makes farming the most logical outcome once you've settled who's the strongest on the map.

The top Guilds already know who's the strongest and who they're not going to bother fighting against. They already organise under the current balancing who gets the top positions.

Under these new mechanics #2 Guild only needs to be #1 for a single season to get the new building. They can stay #2 the rest of the time. Likewise #1 can relegate themselves to #2 a single time and stay in #1 the rest of the time to max out the new building.

Maybe Guilds will fight each other for 1st. Maybe. That would require enough Guilds on the map to actually want to be in 1st, and for none of them to just agree on who should get it, and do exactly what we do now and farm the map. Anyone aiming for #1 will absolutely need to use the HQ buildings to double their VP throughout the season.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I really don't see how any of this actually changes things if players want to farm, for one simple reason. None of it uses first-time capture only reward mechanics. It's all re-capture reward mechanics, which by its very nature makes farming the most logical outcome once you've settled who's the strongest on the map.

The top Guilds already know who's the strongest and who they're not going to bother fighting against. They already organise under the current balancing who gets the top positions.

Under these new mechanics #2 Guild only needs to be #1 for a single season to get the new building. They can stay #2 the rest of the time. Likewise #1 can relegate themselves to #2 a single time and stay in #1 the rest of the time to max out the new building.

Maybe Guilds will fight each other for 1st. Maybe. That would require enough Guilds on the map to actually want to be in 1st, and for none of them to just agree on who should get it, and do exactly what we do now and farm the map. Anyone aiming for #1 will absolutely need to use the HQ buildings to double their VP throughout the season.

Pretty much what you just said @Emberguard , the new mid range fighter is 2500/2500+ with the higher end now pushing 5000+ . How are the new mechanics going to overcome this huge difference ?

 

[Emberguard]

the new mid range fighter is 2500/2500+ with the higher end now pushing 5000+ . How are the new mechanics going to overcome this huge difference

Overcome? No.

Give more wiggle room to the little guy? Potentially. Depends on how things play out between Guilds and what they aim to achieve

If everyone agreed to use the buildings that increase amount of advances to capture sectors (because those still reduce attrition)…. That’s more room to farm, for more Guilds, in the same map space compared to now. Stronger Guild is still going to get more sectors compared to weaker ones, but there’ll be more total advances available to farm between Guilds

 

[xivarmy]

5000 FP per day and 10K goods per day ? Hmmmm , you aren't playing the same game that I am. My city is on the upper end in my world and I make 5245 goods and approximately 1840 FP from collections and my city is jammed full so I swap out with better as they come up and all expansions are gone. What is the timeframe for 5000FP / day ? 3 years , 4 years ? , 6 years ?

You haven't updated your city with the newest stuff exclusively yet. When you start replacing most of your old stuff with extra resorts and feta farms and the like from the spawning mechanics, for instance, you'll march closer to the 5k. And 5k is just the easy number to hit. You can definitely go higher - and that's without them releasing any new interesting buildings along the way - just using what we have available now.

My personal timeframe in which i expect to be close to 5k a day on my main (which currently makes similar to yours)? About 1 year.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I am at 3350/2987 currently and have 4 Aegeons planted so far. I have 22 Jesters for Finish All Special frags and will be riding the Bougainvillea tree hard with my BG every 15 FA Specials I get (every 3 days). Like you said Fetas and Aegeons will boost me to over 5000+ but what about the bulk of the players ? I think the new GbG will increase this split but don't really see any other way of giving the lower players more fights.

 

[xivarmy]

I am at 3350/2987 currently and have 4 Aegeons planted so far. I have 22 Jesters for Finish All Special frags and will be riding the Bougainvillea tree hard with my BG every 15 FA Specials I get (every 3 days). Like you said Fetas and Aegeons will boost me to over 5000+ but what about the bulk of the players ? I think the new GbG will increase this split but don't really see any other way of giving the lower players more fights.

As long as players are continuing to play every event, they'll also be approaching 5000 a day. i.e. while my plans don't involve too much from the fall event, it still has solid FP producing sub buildings - and is capable of proliferating sub-buildings to an insane degree over a couple years even from just winning 1 main building - no league result required.

And with 10 events a year - I expect an active F2P player will also be approaching 5k from collections in 1-2 years. Even just the regular non-gold-league spawners really speed up the timeframe to rotate out all the old crap that no longer meets with current standards.

Another thing to consider is that once you get past a certain point, the "gap" is not so important - i.e. once all you have left to do is lvl 100+ GBs, the exponential cost increase slows down how far ahead you really get for having 2 or 3 times their FP production.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I will be replacing the rest of the harvest junk and WP2s with Aegeons and Feta farms and replacing the Chocos with Sunhaven palaces. The Cartographers houses will be replaced by Jester Stages .

 

[Jennie2019]

My point about GBG building cost was simply this: don’t charge the same price for buildings if you don’t give the same rewards. Why reduce the rewards at all? This is not a discussion about little guilds versus big. And stop trying to tell everyone they have to play balls to the wall, no outside life, live in your mother’s basement and play FoE-never see the light of day style. Every other part of the game is based on the level of the player/guild including GBG rewards EXCEPT building costs. I’m saying this needs to be fixed.

 

[Xenosaur]

5000 FP per day and 10K goods per day ? Hmmmm , you aren't playing the same game that I am. My city is on the upper end in my world and I make 5245 goods and approximately 1840 FP from collections and my city is jammed full so I swap out with better as they come up and all expansions are gone. What is the timeframe for 5000FP / day ? 3 years , 4 years ? , 6 years ?

@Sharmon the Impaler - @xivarmy could mean:
1) Key buildings collected via BG, so most of them collected double...
2) Arc X (assume 180) helping moving you to 5K via investment returns @ (say) 10%. Rolling 20-30K base FP into 1.9 investments isn't that hard these days, as many people's GB are in SENIOR STATUS, and SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 are sizable base amount of FP. SO 20-30K base FP/day @ 10% is an easy 2-3K/day when returned.

Then...combined with your actual collections, and then SC use, and then HC use, and then investments from 1.9s that you do, your daily can easily double, if not hit 5K without too much work.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

My point about GBG building cost was simply this: don’t charge the same price for buildings if you don’t give the same rewards. Why reduce the rewards at all? This is not a discussion about little guilds versus big. And stop trying to tell everyone they have to play balls to the wall, no outside life, live in your mother’s basement and play FoE-never see the light of day style. Every other part of the game is based on the level of the player/guild including GBG rewards EXCEPT building costs. I’m saying this needs to be fixed.

In the diamond league you can chew through 1/4 of your treasury in a season , how would making them even more expensive help ?

 

[xivarmy]

@Sharmon the Impaler - @xivarmy could mean:
1) Key buildings collected via BG, so most of them collected double...
2) Arc X (assume 180) helping moving you to 5K via investment returns @ (say) 10%. Rolling 20-30K base FP into 1.9 investments isn't that hard these days, as many people's GB are in SENIOR STATUS, and SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 are sizable base amount of FP. SO 20-30K base FP/day @ 10% is an easy 2-3K/day when returned.

Then...combined with your actual collections, and then SC use, and then HC use, and then investments from 1.9s that you do, your daily can easily double, if not hit 5K without too much work.

Nope. I mean vanilla collections once your entire (SAT) city is composed of "new wave" buildings (say this past summer event forward atm).

Blue Galaxy and a giant panda chain can get really crazy coupled with finishes from Jesters or Resorts (5k would be low)