• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

[Guide] Cosmic Raven's Version of Heavy Questing

DeletedUser31392

If I did my math right you would need more like 800% which might be like a level 140 CF or so.

See my above post. I didn't lay out the exact details there, but CF level 113 would begin to pay out in c/s in HMA, but you run into the problem where you only have 24 hours in a day (less if you value your sleep) so while you can just spam UBQ all day at that point your only limit on fps is how much time you can actually do it in.

And as I said with the % given for fp packs, and doing 240 UBQs/hour (that's 4 a minute!) it would pay out roughly 75 fps/hour.
 

DeletedUser26965

See my above post. I didn't lay out the exact details there, but CF level 113 would begin to pay out in c/s in HMA, but you run into the problem where you only have 24 hours in a day (less if you value your sleep) so while you can just spam UBQ all day at that point your only limit on fps is how much time you can actually do it in.

And as I said with the % given for fp packs, and doing 240 UBQs/hour (that's 4 a minute!) it would pay out roughly 75 fps/hour.
Was just saying that I believe a level 140 CF in HMA would be the breaking point where UBQ would pay for itself, infinitely. Now, just have to figure for OF at 500,000 c/s cost lol.
 

DeletedUser31392

Was just saying that I believe a level 140 CF in HMA would be the breaking point where UBQ would pay for itself, infinitely. Now, just have to figure for OF at 500,000 c/s cost lol.

Yup was just clarifying the numbers for anyone curious enough.

And to answer your question.... Theoretically (and I say that because I don't think anyone but the dev team truly knows if CF loses its 5% increase after a certain point), Level 280 CF would give you 8+ hours of endless UBQs (I used the supply cost since it's lower than coins, and a theoretical % that remains the same st every age)

Level 297 in OF would begin paying out c/s. Of course fp packs still limited to how many times a day you can do them.


Good luck! Let me know in a few years when you get there!:p
 

DeletedUser31440

Yeah, I was using the wrong coin and supplies pack sizes in my math, to be able to do unlimited UBQ's in HMA you would need a CF bonus of 665%, so I think that is level 113. Not quite as reachable as I had initially thought it was.
 

DeletedUser31392

Yeah, I was using the wrong coin and supplies pack sizes in my math, to be able to do unlimited UBQ's in HMA you would need a CF bonus of 665%, so I think that is level 113. Not quite as reachable as I had initially thought it was.
Not impossible though.

I think it might be more reachable than the level 297 needed in OF lol
 

DeletedUser29218

Not impossible though.

I think it might be more reachable than the level 297 needed in OF lol

The best age for that is iron age.

HQS Can't Join Forum-- I think you're approaching the problem the right way, but I'm not totally convinced as to your particular resolution regarding Terrace Farms at low levels.
One underappreciated point is that out of control coins (more than needed to balance supplies) can be converted directly to FPs. I'm also not sure you are correctly valuing goods. Trading up and down when you are flooded with goods via HQS is very nice.

Lets go in reverse order.

SOK 6 tiles huge coins per tile plus 1 FP at no happiness cost, totally worth it.

I also believe that Raven was more concerned about plundering than I currently am, but I understand that can change as you get to the higher eras.

If you're going to park, Colonial is also much better than HMA--because you have ALOT more land.

Thanks, I agree that Terrace Farm are on the lower end of FP buildings power chain, which makes it a closer call. I still think they are better (as long as you have enough goods for IV GE) Let's talk about the things I disagree with:

-Out of control coins actually favor FP buildings over alchemist (since you are not spending them on UBQ, you have more coins to convert).

-SoK is 5 tiles (remember that each road has 2 sides, so you must divide the roads by 2)

-Plundering is one of those things that can't be quantified, and I think this should be valued by every individual player. I'm like you, not worried about it now, but I might be in the future.

-Goods value. I can only talk from the experience of non-new worlds, but here they are completely worthless (beyond what you need to finish GE). If you want higher era goods for GB, you are better off by increasing FP production and buying arc by 500fp, than uptrading thounsands of goods. I understand that new worlds might be completely different, and I should have stated it clearly before.

-Parking in Colonial vs HMA. Actually, my data suggest that HMA is actually better, as you don't have that much land to overpower the increased difficulty of doing UBQs. How many extra land expansions do you get in Colonial?
If you are interested, I posted the basic ideas of my reasoning a few posts ago.
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser29352

So to sum up for people following at home, make the jump from HMA to CA as quickly as you are able**. Stay in CA until you can get your GBs to level 10. I am doing this and it is working like a charm, just as CR said it would.

** if you have a level 113 CF, stay in HMA.
 

DeletedUser31392

The best age for that is iron age.

Oh once I had my formulas correct that was the first thing I plugged into it. Much much cheaper than 113, but much too late for my main world. I do have a project world I started almost 3 months ago for fun (I have 2 other IA worlds I am working on turning into diamond farms too, so it has been pushed aside to play with spare time. I've now begun focusing my secondary efforts into it while I build up resources on my farms, and am preparing to take the plunge.)

Thanks, I agree that Terrace Farm are on the lower end of FP buildings power chain, which makes it a closer call. I still think they are better (as long as you have enough goods for IV GE) Let's talk about the things I disagree with:

-Out of control coins actually favor FP buildings over alchemist (since you are not spending them on UBQ, you have more coins to convert).

You have to remember too that the coin:fp ratio gets higher and higher to a point it's hardly worth buying anymore. After a certain point it would be more cost effective to do 15 UBQs to get a 5pack than to purchase 5fps with coins (HMA: 1fp:24k coins, not factoring in the coins you would get back from doing them the UBQs).

And while I understand you are relying on luck vs gaurenteed fps, I would rather take my chances and end up with 15 in packs vs spending all my coins and only getting 5 and less as you keep going)

-Goods value. I can only talk from the experience of non-new worlds, but here they are completely worthless (beyond what you need to finish GE). If you want higher era goods for GB, you are better off by increasing FP production and buying arc by 500fp, than uptrading thounsands of goods. I understand that new worlds might be completely different, and I should have stated it clearly before.

You can still trade all the excess goods up. Posting trades in increments of 25, with 1 of each type of trade possible going up, and posted everytime one is taken, or just fill up pages of trades at once each week. It will take a while but it is something to do with mass piles of goods in HMA and someone is going to accept those trades somewhere. And spending a few minutes a day looking through guild trades to find trades going up for you isn't a bad idea either.

While I agree buying goods with fps is possible, you are also losing out on 500+ fps to one of your own GBs. (And I can't imagine anyone selling goods would agree to spending fps on one of your GBs unless they can profit fps from it)

-Parking in Colonial vs HMA. Actually, my data suggest that HMA is actually better, as you don't have that much land to overpower the increased difficulty of doing UBQs. How many extra land expansions do you get in Colonial?
If you are interested, I posted the basic ideas of my reasoning a few posts ago.

Depends where you are on the map, and if you decide to spend the fps on the expansions not in direct line to get to clockmakers. If you go for every tech expansion, and have CA map complete you would get 13 more going from HMA complete to CA compete, or 208 tiles.

Now I don't have the specific numbers for CA written down or in my head just yet, but 208 tiles is decent space to me. (That's not including the premiums either, and assume you don't venture into IndA Cmap)
 

DeletedUser26120

What is considered the FP buildings power chain?
First two would be SoK and sacred skywatch. I like to count rosarium along with SoK because it's the only other fp producing building that equals SoK's fp-per-space output. But some don't like it since it can't be motivated.

Then next would be mad scientist's lab > luau > bazaar/soccer field/masquerade ball and so on. Basically it goes by fps produced per space.

SoK and rosarium are the most efficient at 1 fp per 4 spaces. Then you have mad scientist's lab at 1 fp per 5.3 spaces. Next is skywatch with 1 fp per 6 spaces. You can do the math yourself by looking at fp production and dividing by number of spaces.

Final cider mill upgrade is quite nice at 1 fp per 5 spaces.

Not sure where zen garden, palace, queen/king, etc fit into here. You can calculate total space (6x6 is 36 etc) and divide by fp output.
 

DeletedUser31392

First two would be SoK and sacred skywatch. I like to count rosarium along with SoK because it's the only other fp producing building that equals SoK's fp-per-space output. But some don't like it since it can't be motivated.

Then next would be mad scientist's lab > luau > bazaar/soccer field/masquerade ball and so on. Basically it goes by fps produced per space.

SoK and rosarium are the most efficient at 1 fp per 4 spaces. Then you have mad scientist's lab at 1 fp per 5.3 spaces. Next is skywatch with 1 fp per 6 spaces. You can do the math yourself by looking at fp production and dividing by number of spaces.

Final cider mill upgrade is quite nice at 1 fp per 5 spaces.

Not sure where zen garden, palace, queen/king, etc fit into here. You can calculate total space (6x6 is 36 etc) and divide by fp output.

Cherry Garden would be 1fp/5 tiles, but given the fact you would need a fairly good layout to not waste time space on roads touching the 2 decorations, and that it cannot be motivated therefore plunderbait, I would rank it somewhere between SoK/SSW and the production style fp buildings.

The Maharaja Palace set can be argued to be very decent and high on the list as well, but it does all depend on how many of each building you have, as well as how many of them are actually receiving all their bonuses. Again though, giant plunderbait.
(I have set peices on D world that can be put in an EDIT: 10x8 or 8x10 design, but I have 1 Bandar and 3 Jungles 2 west/east and 3 palaces so it took me a little while to get the layout set just right on foemanager. EDIT: That's 17fps/80 tiles, or between 1fp/4tiles--1fp/5tiles and it gives 25 goods as well (I had to put 1 Jungle outside the main space next to s Palace, which left a 2x2 space on one side I have set to fill with an SoK or my Sundial Spire. When DC comes I hope that the Palace Set will become available to make it more effecient)

The Royal Garden set is a bit more tricky because 2 are 2x2 and 1 is 3x3 (2fp17 tiles which makes it really not worth it). I would rank this the least useful of the 3 sets so far.


I'll add to that you forgot the Sundial Spire, which is similar to SSW (1fp/6 tiles). It would get ranked below SSW this way, but remember it does give a small boost to defense (6% at FE/AF/OF) and the coin output ranks somewhere between both SoK and SSW.


If you can layout your city to have the SoKs go down a long line with the road ending st a TF would be the ideal setup for those (1fp/6 tiles). Any time you can minimize road space for fp buildings makes them that much more effecient.



EDIT: for some reason my brain broke when I was calculating my Palace set design. Bolded the edited parts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser26120

I'm in HMA on beta with 34 alchemists so it's going pretty well.

I haven't set up any swaps so I've been using my fp to cold donate to GBs in my hood. I look for ones where people are leveling it themselves. I'm surprised at what I've gotten back in just a few weeks with so little investment. Over 400 fps in packs earned for about 220 invested.
 

DeletedUser31440

First two would be SoK and sacred skywatch. I like to count rosarium along with SoK because it's the only other fp producing building that equals SoK's fp-per-space output. But some don't like it since it can't be motivated.

Then next would be mad scientist's lab > luau > bazaar/soccer field/masquerade ball and so on. Basically it goes by fps produced per space.

SoK and rosarium are the most efficient at 1 fp per 4 spaces. Then you have mad scientist's lab at 1 fp per 5.3 spaces. Next is skywatch with 1 fp per 6 spaces. You can do the math yourself by looking at fp production and dividing by number of spaces.

Final cider mill upgrade is quite nice at 1 fp per 5 spaces.

Not sure where zen garden, palace, queen/king, etc fit into here. You can calculate total space (6x6 is 36 etc) and divide by fp output.

Dursland, I would include the population of each building in the calculations. SoK and SSW provide very low population so it doesn't really count against them, in CA they provide 10 & 16 population and need 14 & 23 happiness for enthusiastic so barely anything required. The Rosarium is more like a TF though, in CA they require 230 and 730 population and 322 and 1022 happiness for enthusiastic which is quite a bit more land than just the buildings themselves. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the fp producing buildings.
 

DeletedUser31440

And what level would that be? The CF in Iron Age?

These are the numbers that I have for the CF through the Ages breaking even with the UBQ:
BA 1333.3% (1235 - Lvl 227)
IA 444.4% (345 - Lvl 49)
EMA 625% (525 - Lvl 85)
HMA 761.9% (665 - Lvl 113)
LMA 685.7% (590 - Lvl 98)
CA *
InA 1212.1% (1115 - Lvl 203)
PE 1142.8% (1045 - Lvl 189)
ME 1200% (1100 - Lvl 200)
PME *
CE *
TE *
FE 974.6% (875 - Lvl 155)
AF *
OF 1562.5% (1465 - Lvl 273)
(* - I don't have the amount of coins and supplies required to run a UBQ in that Era)
 

DeletedUser29352

Interesting statistics. It merits its own thread as it has nothing to do with this one. Didn’t someone try to figure this out on page 15 or so? The advice was — go back and reread everything. You missed the forest for the trees
 

DeletedUser31392

Interesting statistics. It merits its own thread as it has nothing to do with this one. Didn’t someone try to figure this out on page 15 or so? The advice was — go back and reread everything. You missed the forest for the trees
Nah it goes along with this just fine, considering the Guide is about doing as many quests in 1 day as possible, and getting CF to that threshold is key to doing so.
 
Top