DeletedUser26965
Hello and welcome to my default response to this FMT(Frequently Mentioned Topic). I make this type of post so when I see the topic brought up I can simply link this instead of repeating myself. I have other FMT's in this link:
[FMT] Frequently Mentioned Topics - Links
So let me see if I can describe the issue(s). First a little history on FoE. GvG was introduced a bit late into the game though it was most likely always supposed to be part of the game. A treasury was added so guilds could more easily enjoy the competition of GvG. However that treasury to draw goods from to pay for GvG came with some major limiting factors. Once goods are deposited in the treasury they could only be used for GvG(later GE), could not be withdrawn by anyone and could not be traded. Since then there have been a litany of comments and proposals to change those limiting factors. Here is but a sample of those comment and proposals related to this:
Then in May 2016 Arctic Future was released and with it a major change to GvG. There would be only one map to fight on using any current and all future units in the game and, most importantly here, medals would now be used to pay for GvG costs rather than goods. That change coupled with the treasuries limiting factors had two major effects;
On the second effect AF goods and all goods after have lost value because even though the guild goods GB's supply goods members often have to add goods themselves to the treasury to also pay for GvG/GE. By not having to deposit their own AF goods, and beyond, those goods become more in surplus hence have less value.
Hopefully I have described the issue(s) fairly.
Now allow me to respond.
The Great Buildings Issue
First I think players should keep in mind two things, guild goods GB's didn't exist until after GvG and the GB level cap got removed after as well;
GvG - Feb 25, 2014
Atomium - April 8, 2014
Observatory - April 9, 2014
GB level cap removed - July 1, 2014
The Arc - Nov 4, 2015
So it was only over the passage of time where guilds became more dependant on these GB's to pay for GvG and as such I would say at no time has any guild heavily involved in GvG ever depended solely on them for such. Which leads me to my second point.
Every player and every guild is different. These issue(s) will affect them all ranging from no effect whatsoever to some effect, in other words it's not game breaking.
Further still let us look at each Guild Goods GB;
The Arc - Main purpose is forgepoint return on investment so this GB will always be of value and leveled so we can remove this from our consideration here.
Observatory - Small footprint and gives GvG defense bonus and as such will always be of some value and we can also remove this GB from our consideration.
Atomium - Large footprint also provides happiness. The GB does pretty well on happiness however I think many players can afford to get rid of it or not build it at all.
So Atomium is the only GB which essentially has lost its value. So I ask, is that much of a loss? To remove it will provide you with more space, 42 tiles worth, and if there's one thing people ask for most it's space. But it's one less GB you might say to which I reply so what you shouldn't have them all as that's just bad city planning and there are worse GB's.
The Goods Issue
AF/OF TREASURY GOODS ARE USELESS!
Oh how many times I've seen that I can not count. No, AF/OF treasury goods, and beyond, are not useless. These complaints are often coupled with cries begging for Inno to think of some way to deplete these players treasuries of goods, why ask for such a thing I have no idea, seems completely antithetical to their own self interests. I mean while we're at it why not ask for less forgepoints and fewer expansions? But seriously what players fail to recognize is having an abundance of goods in the treasury frees up their personal goods that can be used elsewhere like; helping your guildmates advance in research, helping guildmates get AF/OF GB's, selling goods for forgepoints etc.
However with this the overall value of AF goods, and beyond, will have less value as I mentioned prior because more of them will be in surplus hence less value overall and overtime but I don't think the effects would be hugely felt.
A Strange Side Issue - GvG/GB/Treasury Goods
Somehow along the way the idea of paying for GvG through guild goods GB's alone got thrown into the mix. No longer would we have plan for and make and/or trade goods to pay for GvG, not even trading the goods in the treasury up/down is needed, let's just let the three guild goods GB's make any age good we want. Sounds great right?
Personally I think it's not only a horrible idea but potentially game breaking. Often this is responded to, rightly so, with the already dominant guilds will simply dominate even more by being able to easily obtain any age goods they need for all the GvG maps. Thrown out the window is any planning, work or repercussions to decisions, yep, simply flick the switch on your GB's and get the goods you need.
Conclusion
In the end I can sympathise with the players on the issues. We've grown into playing a certain way and changes can have effects which we find displeasing, justified or not, that's understandable. But the reality is the guild treasury has always been a sort of permanent decision, that is, once you put goods in there they stay there and despite all the comments and proposals Inno has clearly remained steadfast in that it's going to stay that way. I'm not saying one should not ask otherwise but at the same time let's keep this in perspective.
Working to build a solid GvG guild to pay for GvG is a strong part of the game, decisions have consequences and I think any attempt to lessen that cheapens the game as a whole. One could argue that such an overabundance of AF/OF goods, and beyond, may have other ill effects on the game and that may very well be true but such is never discussed when this issue arises in all its forms. Hopefully though if Inno does anything I hope they make the game better and not worse by implementing many of the suggestions coupled with these issues.
[FMT] Frequently Mentioned Topics - Links
So let me see if I can describe the issue(s). First a little history on FoE. GvG was introduced a bit late into the game though it was most likely always supposed to be part of the game. A treasury was added so guilds could more easily enjoy the competition of GvG. However that treasury to draw goods from to pay for GvG came with some major limiting factors. Once goods are deposited in the treasury they could only be used for GvG(later GE), could not be withdrawn by anyone and could not be traded. Since then there have been a litany of comments and proposals to change those limiting factors. Here is but a sample of those comment and proposals related to this:
GB Treasury Goods
Inno, you need to fix this
OF goods and their uses?
GUILD TREASURY EXCHANGE or Withdrawals
Guild Treasury Trading Market
Giving Founders the right to go into Guild Treasury...
Treasury Goods
Trade Guild Treasury Goods
Guild Merging
Trade System for guild vault
The arc is completely worthless in Artic era. Lets change it.
Change Guild Good Producing GB's to produce FE Age Goods.
Great Building The Observatory
Guild Treasury Goods Donation GBs Modification
Allow Guilds to Trade Treasury Goods
AA Treasury Goods
Trade between different guilds...
Trade Guild Treasury Goods
Choice for Treasury GBs to give unrefined goods
Guild Treasury (Arctic Future Goods)
Why is Inno Ruining the Game?
Congratulations Inno, you ruined a good game
Artic Goods in Treasury Useless
OF goods and their uses?
Arctic Treasury Goods: Redefining "soon"
Guild Treasury Merchant
Make AF and OF Guild Treasury Goods Wild Card Goods.
New Great Building
Inno, you need to fix this
OF goods and their uses?
GUILD TREASURY EXCHANGE or Withdrawals
Guild Treasury Trading Market
Giving Founders the right to go into Guild Treasury...
Treasury Goods
Trade Guild Treasury Goods
Guild Merging
Trade System for guild vault
The arc is completely worthless in Artic era. Lets change it.
Change Guild Good Producing GB's to produce FE Age Goods.
Great Building The Observatory
Guild Treasury Goods Donation GBs Modification
Allow Guilds to Trade Treasury Goods
AA Treasury Goods
Trade between different guilds...
Trade Guild Treasury Goods
Choice for Treasury GBs to give unrefined goods
Guild Treasury (Arctic Future Goods)
Why is Inno Ruining the Game?
Congratulations Inno, you ruined a good game
Artic Goods in Treasury Useless
OF goods and their uses?
Arctic Treasury Goods: Redefining "soon"
Guild Treasury Merchant
Make AF and OF Guild Treasury Goods Wild Card Goods.
New Great Building
Then in May 2016 Arctic Future was released and with it a major change to GvG. There would be only one map to fight on using any current and all future units in the game and, most importantly here, medals would now be used to pay for GvG costs rather than goods. That change coupled with the treasuries limiting factors had two major effects;
- Great Buildings declined in some value
- Goods from AF onward have lost value
On the second effect AF goods and all goods after have lost value because even though the guild goods GB's supply goods members often have to add goods themselves to the treasury to also pay for GvG/GE. By not having to deposit their own AF goods, and beyond, those goods become more in surplus hence have less value.
Hopefully I have described the issue(s) fairly.
Now allow me to respond.
The Great Buildings Issue
First I think players should keep in mind two things, guild goods GB's didn't exist until after GvG and the GB level cap got removed after as well;
GvG - Feb 25, 2014
Atomium - April 8, 2014
Observatory - April 9, 2014
GB level cap removed - July 1, 2014
The Arc - Nov 4, 2015
So it was only over the passage of time where guilds became more dependant on these GB's to pay for GvG and as such I would say at no time has any guild heavily involved in GvG ever depended solely on them for such. Which leads me to my second point.
Every player and every guild is different. These issue(s) will affect them all ranging from no effect whatsoever to some effect, in other words it's not game breaking.
Further still let us look at each Guild Goods GB;
The Arc - Main purpose is forgepoint return on investment so this GB will always be of value and leveled so we can remove this from our consideration here.
Observatory - Small footprint and gives GvG defense bonus and as such will always be of some value and we can also remove this GB from our consideration.
Atomium - Large footprint also provides happiness. The GB does pretty well on happiness however I think many players can afford to get rid of it or not build it at all.
So Atomium is the only GB which essentially has lost its value. So I ask, is that much of a loss? To remove it will provide you with more space, 42 tiles worth, and if there's one thing people ask for most it's space. But it's one less GB you might say to which I reply so what you shouldn't have them all as that's just bad city planning and there are worse GB's.
The Goods Issue
AF/OF TREASURY GOODS ARE USELESS!
Oh how many times I've seen that I can not count. No, AF/OF treasury goods, and beyond, are not useless. These complaints are often coupled with cries begging for Inno to think of some way to deplete these players treasuries of goods, why ask for such a thing I have no idea, seems completely antithetical to their own self interests. I mean while we're at it why not ask for less forgepoints and fewer expansions? But seriously what players fail to recognize is having an abundance of goods in the treasury frees up their personal goods that can be used elsewhere like; helping your guildmates advance in research, helping guildmates get AF/OF GB's, selling goods for forgepoints etc.
However with this the overall value of AF goods, and beyond, will have less value as I mentioned prior because more of them will be in surplus hence less value overall and overtime but I don't think the effects would be hugely felt.
A Strange Side Issue - GvG/GB/Treasury Goods
Somehow along the way the idea of paying for GvG through guild goods GB's alone got thrown into the mix. No longer would we have plan for and make and/or trade goods to pay for GvG, not even trading the goods in the treasury up/down is needed, let's just let the three guild goods GB's make any age good we want. Sounds great right?
Personally I think it's not only a horrible idea but potentially game breaking. Often this is responded to, rightly so, with the already dominant guilds will simply dominate even more by being able to easily obtain any age goods they need for all the GvG maps. Thrown out the window is any planning, work or repercussions to decisions, yep, simply flick the switch on your GB's and get the goods you need.
Conclusion
In the end I can sympathise with the players on the issues. We've grown into playing a certain way and changes can have effects which we find displeasing, justified or not, that's understandable. But the reality is the guild treasury has always been a sort of permanent decision, that is, once you put goods in there they stay there and despite all the comments and proposals Inno has clearly remained steadfast in that it's going to stay that way. I'm not saying one should not ask otherwise but at the same time let's keep this in perspective.
Working to build a solid GvG guild to pay for GvG is a strong part of the game, decisions have consequences and I think any attempt to lessen that cheapens the game as a whole. One could argue that such an overabundance of AF/OF goods, and beyond, may have other ill effects on the game and that may very well be true but such is never discussed when this issue arises in all its forms. Hopefully though if Inno does anything I hope they make the game better and not worse by implementing many of the suggestions coupled with these issues.
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